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Thread: OCer arrested in Smyrna TN

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    OCer arrested in Smyrna TN

    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Tenn Statue 39-17-1351 (n)(1) applies?

    (n) (1) Except as provided in subdivision (n)(2), a permit issued pursuant to this section shall be good for four (4) years and shall entitle the permit holder to carry any handgun or handguns that the permit holder legally owns or possesses. The permit holder shall have the permit in the holder's immediate possession at all times when carrying a handgun and shall display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer.


    Video shows a refusal to show permit, yes?

    Arrested for unlawfully carry? No, I don't see that charge sticking. Does TN have an interference statue? That may apply.

    Motion to strike the information if they charged with unlawful carry?

    Otherwise you got the defense that all gun laws are void and/or the argument that the "shall" is directory in nature v. mandatory and the 4th amendment and 5th amendment defenses.

    or argue that the circumstances did not involve any safety issue ...
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-19-2016 at 06:56 PM.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    the video's main actor seems to have forgotten about keeping your mouth shut...horribly failed to keep quiet.

    last shot of being manhandled was a nice touch...

    any idea what happened to the individual?

    ipse

    added...thanks for the reference to TN's statute
    Last edited by solus; 07-19-2016 at 06:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Published on Jun 25, 2016On Friday june 24th, 2016 I was at a McDonald's in Smyrna ,TN when I was stopped on my way out by one of Smyrna's finest because someone called the police because I was openly carrying a handgun on my hip around children. After being told that I would not give any information without probable cause, I was slammed into my car and arrested for "unlawfully carrying a firearm" even though I DO have a permit.
    Are you quoting the guy in the video (which you don't make clear if it's the case) or are YOU the guy in the video?

    Isn't TN an "OC only with a permit" state? I would think that one would have to present their permit when asked if so.

    edited to add: the guy in the video gives OCers a bad name. He could have said all he said, said very little, or said nothing and avoided sounding like a jerk.
    Last edited by BB62; 07-19-2016 at 07:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Are you quoting the guy in the video (which you don't make clear if it's the case) or are YOU the guy in the video?

    Isn't TN an "OC only with a permit" state? I would think that one would have to present their permit when asked if so.

    edited to add: the guy in the video gives OCers a bad name. He could have said all he said, said very little, or said nothing and avoided sounding unlike a jerk.
    Even in commieland CT ... a cop cannot demand to see a permit on demand ... a bill introduced last session to this point failed to pass.

    The guy in the video did OK...
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-19-2016 at 07:00 PM.

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    Regular Member cjohnson44546's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Even in commieland CT ... a cop cannot demand to see a permit on demand ... a bill introduced last session to this point failed to pass.

    The guy in the video did OK...
    in TN any police officer can demand to see a carry permit and you must show, or be arrested for carrying. They ask, you show, no one gets arrested. IN the video the OCer was arrested because he did break the law.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Even in commieland CT ... a cop cannot demand to see a permit on demand ... a bill introduced last session to this point failed to pass.

    The guy in the video did OK...
    Quote Originally Posted by cjohnson44546 View Post
    in TN any police officer can demand to see a carry permit and you must show, or be arrested for carrying. They ask, you show, no one gets arrested. IN the video the OCer was arrested because he did break the law.
    39-17-1351
    "The permit holder shall have the permit in the holder's immediate possession at all times when carrying a handgun and shall display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer."
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-19-2016 at 09:47 PM. Reason: fixed
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Tenn Statue 39-17-1351 (n)(1) applies?

    (n) (1) Except as provided in subdivision (n)(2), a permit issued pursuant to this section shall be good for four (4) years and shall entitle the permit holder to carry any handgun or handguns that the permit holder legally owns or possesses. The permit holder shall have the permit in the holder's immediate possession at all times when carrying a handgun and shall display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer.


    Video shows a refusal to show permit, yes?

    Arrested for unlawfully carry? No, I don't see that charge sticking. Does TN have an interference statue? That may apply.

    Motion to strike the information if they charged with unlawful carry?

    Otherwise you got the defense that all gun laws are void and/or the argument that the "shall" is directory in nature v. mandatory and the 4th amendment and 5th amendment defenses.

    or argue that the circumstances did not involve any safety issue ...
    They discuss this section of code in the video comments.

    If there is such a law, it is blatantly unconstitutional, but, I guess that goes without saying. I would also be curious to know if there is actually any violation/offense related to this section, or if it may just be ineffective remnants like Texas' GC 411.205.

    I would think that one would have to present their permit when asked if so.
    That's what they want you to think, for sure.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member TXOC16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjohnson44546 View Post
    in TN any police officer can demand to see a carry permit and you must show, or be arrested for carrying. They ask, you show, no one gets arrested. IN the video the OCer was arrested because he did break the law.
    There were no specific and articulable facts, no reasonable suspicion, and definitely no probable cause that a crime had been, was being, or was about to be committed. Thus, this was clearly yet another unconstitutional Terry stop, which until they are finally adjudicated in every Federal District, appear to still be the pitiful default in a number of states. Of course, since the tyrants are playing with our money, there's no real incentive to play by the rules, otherwise known as the U.S. Constitution.

    Kudos to the citizen, sovereign or otherwise, who resisted the arrogant tyrants.

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    The problem is the guy didn't need to be one of these a-holes on youtube trying to prove how crooked and stupid cops are. He COULD have just showed his permit and everyone would have been happy. The officers were called to the scene by a nervous or scared person and so they need to investigate it. The idiot then goes on about saying how he's been carrying for so and so amount of years and he's not a criminal or fugitive or anything of that sort, yet the police don't know that. I mean, it's not like the police get lied to on a daily basis or anything. So instead of doing the RIGHT thing and show them his permit, he tries this route and I'm very very happy to see him get handcuffed. Like someone said. These people give us a bad name.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericcris10sen View Post
    The problem is the guy didn't need to be one of these a-holes on youtube trying to prove how crooked and stupid cops are. He COULD have just showed his permit and everyone would have been happy. The officers were called to the scene by a nervous or scared person and so they need to investigate it. The idiot then goes on about saying how he's been carrying for so and so amount of years and he's not a criminal or fugitive or anything of that sort, yet the police don't know that. I mean, it's not like the police get lied to on a daily basis or anything. So instead of doing the RIGHT thing and show them his permit, he tries this route and I'm very very happy to see him get handcuffed. Like someone said. These people give us a bad name.
    That's an expensive way to go.

    IMO, better to educate and avoid the unnecessary.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    That's an expensive way to go.

    IMO, better to educate and avoid the unnecessary.
    Educate who?

    You think that the arrest for unlawful possession was OK ?

    If not, why not?

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    Regular Member TXOC16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericcris10sen View Post
    The problem is the guy didn't need to be one of these a-holes on youtube trying to prove how crooked and stupid cops are. He COULD have just showed his permit and everyone would have been happy. The officers were called to the scene by a nervous or scared person and so they need to investigate it. The idiot then goes on about saying how he's been carrying for so and so amount of years and he's not a criminal or fugitive or anything of that sort, yet the police don't know that. I mean, it's not like the police get lied to on a daily basis or anything. So instead of doing the RIGHT thing and show them his permit, he tries this route and I'm very very happy to see him get handcuffed. Like someone said. These people give us a bad name.
    Yeah, better that he should probably have just gotten down on his knees and licked the boots of the tyrants, after, of course, showing his papers.

    News flash, "nervous and scared" does not equate to specific and articulable facts, reasonable suspicion, nor probable cause. As a matter of fact, the police don't know that you aren't committing a crime at this very moment. Do you suppose they should have the authority to kick down your door to ensure that no crime is being committed? After all, since they don't know, it's okay, right?

    And I can assure you that those who are giving "us" a bad name are definitely not the ones who regularly exercise their God-given, Constitutionally enumerated rights, but rather are those who appear somewhat ignorant of the same and appear to be entirely comfortable with submission to the tyranny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TXOC16 View Post
    Yeah, better that he should probably have just gotten down on his knees and licked the boots of the tyrants, after, of course, showing his papers.

    News flash, "nervous and scared" does not equate to specific and articulable facts, reasonable suspicion, nor probable cause. As a matter of fact, the police don't know that you aren't committing a crime at this very moment. Do you suppose they should have the authority to kick down your door to ensure that no crime is being committed? After all, since they don't know, it's okay, right?

    And I can assure you that those who are giving "us" a bad name are definitely not the ones who regularly exercise their God-given, Constitutionally enumerated rights, but rather are those who appear somewhat ignorant of the same and appear to be entirely comfortable with submission to the tyranny.
    Ahh I was wondering when I was going to meet you kind of people on here. Yes, police are tyrants. Yes of course. They're out there to get everyone. They don't care about civilians. They're horrible, horrible people! Boo hoo!

    News flash. When someone calls in something like this and they need to investigate the situation, I don't see ANYTHING wrong with them asking to see whether or not he has a permit. They aren't being a-holes. They aren't asking you to be submissive. They're just making sure that you are allowed to carry. And how the HELL is someone asking for your carry permit the same as kicking down someones door? Are you seriously this stupid? If someone calls the police saying there's something suspicious going on at my house or that something is happening at my house that is scary, yes, I sure as HELL do want them to come and investigate it. You don't know if I'm in trouble or someone is casing my house. That's what the HELL they're supposed to do.

    I guarantee you're one of those a-holes that go around acting in such a fashion being a complete jerk to law enforcement because they're trying to do their job. Tyranny. Give a me a fricken break. Asking for their carry permit is being oppressive. Go to Cuba or North Korea if you want to see a tyrannical government. Ffs. Kids these days. I'm done talking to you.
    Last edited by ericcris10sen; 07-19-2016 at 10:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ericcris10sen View Post
    Ahh I was wondering when I was going to meet you kind of people on here. Yes, police are tyrants. Yes of course. They're out there to get everyone. They don't care about civilians. They're horrible, horrible people! Boo hoo!

    News flash. When someone calls in something like this and they need to investigate the situation, I don't see ANYTHING wrong with them asking to see whether or not he has a permit. They aren't being a-holes. They aren't asking you to be submissive. They're just making sure that you are allowed to carry. And how the HELL is someone asking for your carry permit the same as kicking down someones door? Are you seriously this stupid? If someone calls the police saying there's something suspicious going on at my house or that something is happening at my house that is scary, yes, I sure as HELL do want them to come and investigate it. You don't know if I'm in trouble or someone is casing my house. That's what the HELL they're supposed to do.

    I guarantee you're one of those a-holes that go around acting in such a fashion being a complete jerk to law enforcement because they're trying to do their job. Tyranny. Give a me a fricken break. Asking for their carry permit is being oppressive. Go to Cuba or North Korea if you want to see a tyrannical government. Ffs. Kids these days. I'm done talking to you.
    What if they passed a law saying that your toilet needs to be colored blue and that they have the right to enter your house to check. You gonna let them in?

    See, you cannot make a law that violates another.

    The 4th amendment should prevail here.

    Being a jerk is not a crime.

    Asking to see a permit it not oppressive by itself and in that context only. Stopping someone in their travels and demanding is.

    The cops are not a-holes but just doing their job which apparently includes forgetting the 4th amendment. And remember .. the 4th amendment presumes that any seizure is unlawful w/o a warrant...no warrant here and your arguments don't make it over this 4th amendment hurdle.

    https://www.cga.ct.gov/asp/menu/Comm...&doc_year=2016

    ^^ read the recent testimony about the CT bill to require showing a permit ....

    See all the lizzurds that out themselves by saying that this is OK ... and the others who opposed the bill
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-20-2016 at 12:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ericcris10sen View Post
    Ahh I was wondering when I was going to meet you kind of people on here.

    Yeah, "you kind [sic]," as in clearly more educated, articulate, experienced, knowledgeable, and Constitution-loving than "you kind."

    The remainder of your "response" is so poorly written and is so lacking in any kind of logic or reason that it's really not even worthy of a response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ericcris10sen View Post
    Ahh I was wondering when I was going to meet you kind of people on here. <snip>
    What, Americans?

    Heck why not just require folks to let .govs into their house upon request ... that's what the police in my state want to require, see:

    http://www.rep-am.com/articles/2016/...cal/968853.txt
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-20-2016 at 12:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    What, Americans?

    Heck why not just require folks to let .govs into their house upon request...
    C'mon, now, if you have nothing to hide...right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TXOC16 View Post
    C'mon, now, if you have nothing to hide...right?
    But I keep telling them ... I have lots to hide ! Thats why the walls of my house are opaque.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-20-2016 at 12:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    But I keep telling them...I have lots to hide!
    Hey, that's probable cause right there! Show your papers now!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TXOC16 View Post
    Hey, that's probable cause right there! Show your papers now!
    Come and get them ... if you can. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Come and get them ... if you can. LOL
    Or as the seemingly few true patriots remaining in Texas would say, "Come and take it!"

    The rest, here and elsewhere, seem more inclined to a meek muttering of something to the effect of, "You can have my gun and my nuts, just please don't take my sushi from HEB!"

    Carry on, patriots.
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force." - Ayn Rand

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    Quote Originally Posted by TXOC16 View Post
    Or as the seemingly few true patriots remaining in Texas would say, "Come and take it!"

    The rest, here and elsewhere, seem more inclined to a meek muttering of something to the effect of, "You can have my gun and my nuts, just please don't take my sushi from HEB!"

    Carry on, patriots.
    The old adage is "Don't wait for them to get you .. you go get them first"

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    Quote Originally Posted by TXOC16 View Post
    There were no specific and articulable facts, no reasonable suspicion, and definitely no probable cause that a crime had been, was being, or was about to be committed. Thus, this was clearly yet another unconstitutional Terry stop, which until they are finally adjudicated in every Federal District, appear to still be the pitiful default in a number of states. Of course, since the tyrants are playing with our money, there's no real incentive to play by the rules, otherwise known as the U.S. Constitution.

    Kudos to the citizen, sovereign or otherwise, who resisted the arrogant tyrants.
    I don't think there needs to be any probable cause.
    Like many other freedoms, the good people of TN agreed to have their right-to-bear stolen from them, then sold back to them with the desire that police monitor the process.
    (Shrug) If the people of TN don't like the current scope of their enslavement they can easily change it if they stand together.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I don't think there needs to be any probable cause.
    Like many other freedoms, the good people of TN agreed to have their right-to-bear stolen from them, then sold back to them with the desire that police monitor the process.
    (Shrug) If the people of TN don't like the current scope of their enslavement they can easily change it if they stand together.
    What people is that again? As with several other southern states I'd imagine TN has a general handgun prohibition that was passed shortly following the civil war, and an exception for licensees that was created just recently.

    If you mean the good people of TN in the present tense then no, I don't believe any of them did "agree to" the unconstitutional prohibition. This is a case of one long dead generation ruling future generations. Jefferson had some interesting thoughts about that. The earth belongs to the living.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericcris10sen View Post
    The problem is the guy didn't need to be one of these a-holes on youtube trying to prove how crooked and stupid cops are.
    Didn't need to be? He arguably doesn't need to be an OCer in the first place. Can you perhaps re-try and use some reasoning other than that used constantly by the liberal anti-gun?
    He COULD have just showed his permit and everyone would have been happy.
    The wet-panted customer was already unhappy about the presence of a lawfully carried firearm. The cops were already unhappy that they met someone that didn't like the taste of leather. The OCer was already unhappy that these police don't respect citizens' constitutional rights. I don't think producing the permit would have changed any of this. So no, just showing the permit would not have made everyone happy.
    The officers were called to the scene by a nervous or scared person and so they need to investigate it.
    Their department policy may say so. Coming to the scene, observing that nothing obviously unlawful or violent is occurring, and hell, maybe even making contact with the caller to inform them of the law, would all be perfectly acceptable. As has been already stated, receiving a call doesn't constitution RAS or PC.
    The idiot then goes on about saying how he's been carrying for so and so amount of years and he's not a criminal or fugitive or anything of that sort, yet the police don't know that.
    They don't need to know it either, they need to get RAS or PC or get lost. Simple.
    I mean, it's not like the police get lied to on a daily basis or anything.
    Irrelevant. Just like the fact they may lie everyday themselves is irrelevant.
    So instead of doing the RIGHT thing and show them his permit, he tries this route and I'm very very happy to see him get handcuffed.
    WHOAAAA Nelly, in what way have we concluded that forfeiting constitutionally enumerated rights is the RIGHT thing to do?
    Like someone said. These people give us a bad name.
    "Us"? I'm an individual. You're an individual. The guy in the video is an individual. Our rights are individual rights, too. I believe I'd sooner and more gladly associate with the guy in the video than with you. The strategy of restoring our rights by slowly and shyly exercising them while blending into the background as much as possible, hoping that our rights won't be subjugated just by virtue of not being noticed, is not a good one. A better strategy is to set high expectations for law enforcement and to assert your rights confidently and openly.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 07-20-2016 at 06:43 AM. Reason: clearer quote attribution
    Advocate freedom please

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