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OCer arrested in Smyrna TN

TXOC16

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Come and get them ... if you can. LOL

Or as the seemingly few true patriots remaining in Texas would say, "Come and take it!"

The rest, here and elsewhere, seem more inclined to a meek muttering of something to the effect of, "You can have my gun and my nuts, just please don't take my sushi from HEB!"

Carry on, patriots.
 

davidmcbeth

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Or as the seemingly few true patriots remaining in Texas would say, "Come and take it!"

The rest, here and elsewhere, seem more inclined to a meek muttering of something to the effect of, "You can have my gun and my nuts, just please don't take my sushi from HEB!"

Carry on, patriots.

The old adage is "Don't wait for them to get you .. you go get them first"
 

twoskinsonemanns

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There were no specific and articulable facts, no reasonable suspicion, and definitely no probable cause that a crime had been, was being, or was about to be committed. Thus, this was clearly yet another unconstitutional Terry stop, which until they are finally adjudicated in every Federal District, appear to still be the pitiful default in a number of states. Of course, since the tyrants are playing with our money, there's no real incentive to play by the rules, otherwise known as the U.S. Constitution.

Kudos to the citizen, sovereign or otherwise, who resisted the arrogant tyrants.

I don't think there needs to be any probable cause.
Like many other freedoms, the good people of TN agreed to have their right-to-bear stolen from them, then sold back to them with the desire that police monitor the process.
(Shrug) If the people of TN don't like the current scope of their enslavement they can easily change it if they stand together.
 

stealthyeliminator

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I don't think there needs to be any probable cause.
Like many other freedoms, the good people of TN agreed to have their right-to-bear stolen from them, then sold back to them with the desire that police monitor the process.
(Shrug) If the people of TN don't like the current scope of their enslavement they can easily change it if they stand together.

What people is that again? As with several other southern states I'd imagine TN has a general handgun prohibition that was passed shortly following the civil war, and an exception for licensees that was created just recently.

If you mean the good people of TN in the present tense then no, I don't believe any of them did "agree to" the unconstitutional prohibition. This is a case of one long dead generation ruling future generations. Jefferson had some interesting thoughts about that. The earth belongs to the living.

The problem is the guy didn't need to be one of these a-holes on youtube trying to prove how crooked and stupid cops are.
Didn't need to be? He arguably doesn't need to be an OCer in the first place. Can you perhaps re-try and use some reasoning other than that used constantly by the liberal anti-gun?
He COULD have just showed his permit and everyone would have been happy.
The wet-panted customer was already unhappy about the presence of a lawfully carried firearm. The cops were already unhappy that they met someone that didn't like the taste of leather. The OCer was already unhappy that these police don't respect citizens' constitutional rights. I don't think producing the permit would have changed any of this. So no, just showing the permit would not have made everyone happy.
The officers were called to the scene by a nervous or scared person and so they need to investigate it.
Their department policy may say so. Coming to the scene, observing that nothing obviously unlawful or violent is occurring, and hell, maybe even making contact with the caller to inform them of the law, would all be perfectly acceptable. As has been already stated, receiving a call doesn't constitution RAS or PC.
The idiot then goes on about saying how he's been carrying for so and so amount of years and he's not a criminal or fugitive or anything of that sort, yet the police don't know that.
They don't need to know it either, they need to get RAS or PC or get lost. Simple.
I mean, it's not like the police get lied to on a daily basis or anything.
Irrelevant. Just like the fact they may lie everyday themselves is irrelevant.
So instead of doing the RIGHT thing and show them his permit, he tries this route and I'm very very happy to see him get handcuffed.
WHOAAAA Nelly, in what way have we concluded that forfeiting constitutionally enumerated rights is the RIGHT thing to do?
Like someone said. These people give us a bad name.
"Us"? I'm an individual. You're an individual. The guy in the video is an individual. Our rights are individual rights, too. I believe I'd sooner and more gladly associate with the guy in the video than with you. The strategy of restoring our rights by slowly and shyly exercising them while blending into the background as much as possible, hoping that our rights won't be subjugated just by virtue of not being noticed, is not a good one. A better strategy is to set high expectations for law enforcement and to assert your rights confidently and openly.
 
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twoskinsonemanns

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What people is that again? As with several other southern states I'd imagine TN has a general handgun prohibition that was passed shortly following the civil war, and an exception for licensees that was created just recently.

If you mean the good people of TN in the present tense then no, I don't believe any of them did "agree to" the unconstitutional prohibition. This is a case of one long dead generation ruling future generations. Jefferson had some interesting thoughts about that. The earth belongs to the living.

OK a previous generation gave away their freedom. They can still chose to take it back or not.
Several states that previously had such laws have corrected it and now have Constitutional Carry.
The only thing stopping TN from having the same is the people of TN. Quiet compliance seems like consent to me.
 

davidmcbeth

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Even if 200% of the people in TN support the law, I still do not.

And I'm not from TN.

And I do not waive my 4th amendment rights anywhere in my travels.

4th amendment is a law too.
 

WalkingWolf

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Record, object to unlawful search and seizure, but cooperate. He did the first, and second, but failed on the last. He also failed to KYBMS other than minimal information.
 

JoeSparky

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"To verbally refuse a search is an exercise of one's rights. It isn't a provocation. That ... police officials see it as the latter is telling -- and a problem."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...fusing-a-search-is-a-right-not-a-provocation/

H/T John Wesley Hall FourthAmendment.com

I have personally been told by a Lehi City police officer that "the only people who stand up for their Constitutional Rights are criminals". Very sad was I when I heard this!
 

Fallschirjmäger

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There were no specific and articulable facts, no reasonable suspicion, and definitely no probable cause that a crime had been, was being, or was about to be committed. Thus, this was clearly yet another unconstitutional Terry stop, which until they are finally adjudicated in every Federal District, appear to still be the pitiful default in a number of states. Of course, since the tyrants are playing with our money, there's no real incentive to play by the rules, otherwise known as the U.S. Constitution.

Kudos to the citizen, sovereign or otherwise, who resisted the arrogant tyrants.
I must respectfully disagree, citing Tennessee Code 39-17-1307. Unlawful carrying or possession of a weapon.
(a) (1) A person commits an offense who carries with the intent to go armed a firearm, a knife with a blade length exceeding four inches (4²), or a club.
Looks like a reasonable suspicion of a violation of a particular crime.
 

twoskinsonemanns

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I have personally been told by a Lehi City police officer that "the only people who stand up for their Constitutional Rights are criminals". Very sad was I when I heard this!

An extremely common and regretful attitude of the masses. "I have nothing to hide...."
Of course doubts set in when you suggest a little more discomfort in the way of unannounced random searched of their underwear drawer.
 

Fallschirjmäger

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Isn't TN an "OC only with a permit" state? I would think that one would have to present their permit when asked if so.
It all depends on how the laws are written. Carrying a weapon with intent to go armed is a crime in Tennessee in one section of law with a defense against it in the following section. If a carrier does not employ/use/defend his actions with that section an officer isn't required to negate all possibilities before making a case with what he sees. There's a certain amount of citizen responsibility involved in the process.

In Georgia (another "OC only with a permit" state) the mere carrying of arms is not prima facie evidence of a crime and Georgia law makes it illegal for officers to detain a carrier for the sole purpose of investigating whether such person has a weapons carry license.
 

TXOC16

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I must respectfully disagree, citing Tennessee Code 39-17-1307. Unlawful carrying or possession of a weapon.
Looks like a reasonable suspicion of a violation of a particular crime.

Absent evidence that a crime has been committed, is being committing, or is about to be committed, the mere act of a citizen participating in what is an otherwise lawful activity does not and cannot serve as a basis for reasonable suspicion.

For example, I'm sure that each TN municipality, indeed, the state itself, have laws that prohibit the operation of a motor vehicle upon public roads without a valid drivers license, yet absent the aforementioned evidence to the contrary, the presumption must always be one of innocence, rather than guilt, which prevents law enforcement from stopping motor vehicle operators merely to check for a valid license.
 

utbagpiper

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It all depends on how the laws are written. Carrying a weapon with intent to go armed is a crime in Tennessee in one section of law with a defense against it in the following section. If a carrier does not employ/use/defend his actions with that section an officer isn't required to negate all possibilities before making a case with what he sees. There's a certain amount of citizen responsibility involved in the process.

In Georgia (another "OC only with a permit" state) the mere carrying of arms is not prima facie evidence of a crime and Georgia law makes it illegal for officers to detain a carrier for the sole purpose of investigating whether such person has a weapons carry license.

+1

Whether we think a particular law is or isn't constitution is a fine area for debate here. Demonstrably, beat cops have a lot less interest in such debates. I trust most here would agree that laws requiring a permit to carry (OC or CC) are a violation of the 2nd amendment (among others) and any number of State constitutional provisions. But until we get such laws repealed or overturned in the courts, we need to obey them.

There do appear to be some locations where an officer can demand to see a carry permit for no reason other than knowing a gun is present. In such jurisdictions, show the permit on demand or expect to be cited. Those living in such locations, ought to be working to improve their statutory situation (as ought we all, starting from wherever we currently are).

Charles
 

WalkingWolf

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Absent evidence that a crime has been committed, is being committing, or is about to be committed, the mere act of a citizen participating in what is an otherwise lawful activity does not and cannot serve as a basis for reasonable suspicion.

For example, I'm sure that each TN municipality, indeed, the state itself, have laws that prohibit the operation of a motor vehicle upon public roads without a valid drivers license, yet absent the aforementioned evidence to the contrary, the presumption must always be one of innocence, rather than guilt, which prevents law enforcement from stopping motor vehicle operators merely to check for a valid license.

It is against the law to impersonate a police officer. The only way a citizen can know that someone wearing a uniform is a real cop by seeing ID.
 

Fallschirjmäger

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Absent evidence that a crime has been committed, is being committing, or is about to be committed, the mere act of a citizen participating in what is an otherwise lawful activity does not and cannot serve as a basis for reasonable suspicion.

For example, I'm sure that each TN municipality, indeed, the state itself, have laws that prohibit the operation of a motor vehicle upon public roads without a valid drivers license, yet absent the aforementioned evidence to the contrary, the presumption must always be one of innocence, rather than guilt, which prevents law enforcement from stopping motor vehicle operators merely to check for a valid license.

Pardon, but what part of seeing someone carrying a firearm when carrying a firearm with intent to armed doesn't look like a violation of the state law making going armed armed with a firearm a crime?

The law says carrying with intent to go armed is a crime. So how does carrying not look like one?

As for motor vehicle licensing, the way the law in TN is written is that merely observing someone driving Doesn't give reasonable suspicion, unlike seeing someone armed, which does.
 

color of law

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This guy cooked his own goose. Tenn law is clear, if you're asked to produce your license, you have to produce your license.

I don't like their law, but it's the law.
 

davidmcbeth

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This guy cooked his own goose. Tenn law is clear, if you're asked to produce your license, you have to produce your license.

I don't like their law, but it's the law.

You may or not be aware of this : state legislatures generally do not consider the legality of the laws that they pass....they just pass 'em.

What the law says is that the government can seize you anytime, anywhere, for no reason. Exercising a right is a reason to seize you?

And what if you don't have a license? Then the 5th amendment comes into play as well.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hQHcHKovqg3tCVzehvuXSmu2DEF9IDQ4tPaBQYCXnXo/edit

^^^ some case law shown ... starting with:

More on point with guns, the Supreme Court ruled in Florida v. J.L., 529 U.S. 266 (2000) that there is no firearm exception to the 4th Amendment, meaning a person cannot be stopped just for carrying a gun unless there is some other indication the person may be committing a crime.
 
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TXOC16

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Pardon, but what part of seeing someone carrying a firearm when carrying a firearm with intent to armed doesn't look like a violation of the state law making going armed armed with a firearm a crime?

Pardon, but what part of seeing someone driving a motor vehicle when driving said vehicle without a license doesn't look like a violation of state law makes driving said vehicle with a license a crime?
 

TXOC16

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This guy cooked his own goose. Tenn law is clear, if you're asked to produce your license, you have to produce your license.

I don't like their law, but it's the law.

And how fortunate for his fellow Tennesseans that they have patriots like him who are willing to stand up for the Constitution and stand against tyranny as they are the true catalysts of change.
 
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