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Thread: Another Anti Gun article posted online today

  1. #1
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    Another Anti Gun article posted online today

    I know we are about HGOC, but any infringement on a right is bad in my opinion

    link: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/opini...720-story.html

    i'm also wondering where they got their idea it isn't covered by the second amendment, I've read it several times and see no such designation on any arms as "off limits"

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    The critical flaw in the system is the obscene notion of 'crime prevention'.
    If you are not stopping an actual crime in progress, then any police act to 'prevent crime' is an improper excess of authority exercised against those who are not engaged in criminal acts.
    It's a guaranteed death-spiral into totalitarianism. The only way to genuinely prevent all crime is to prevent all unsupervised activity.
    It sounds like such a great idea -- who doesn't want to 'prevent crime'?
    But in practice, it becomes crimes by the state against non-criminal individuals. A license to dominate, to improperly exercise improper 'authority'.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    It's simply incredible but this is the daily news channel rhetoric to answer every bad thing that happens.
    What can we do to prevent it?
    Surely no right is so sacred that it cannot be sacrificed to save the life of one of god's chillin's
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Here's where they erred: "...with assault weapons falling so far outside the fundamental purposes that the Second Amendment protects..."

    Let's take a good look: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    Our Second Amendment protects "the right of the people to keep and bear arms." In fact, it demands that this right "shall not be infringed," a demand that applies to each and every level throughout our entire United States of America.

    It's purpose is pre-stated, "being necessary to the security of a free State."

    The means is further pre-stated, to provide for "a well regulated Militia."

    Those who penned our Second Amendment have confirmed many things:

    1. "the people" includes every citizen of our nation.

    2. The "militia" is made up of all able-bodied men, women, and children capable of bearing and using arms

    3. "keep" means to own and/or possess

    4. "bear" means to carry

    5. "arms" means armaments, as in sticks, stones, knives, spears, bombs, grenades, muskets, rifles, handguns, cannon, mortar, and artillery. This list is not all-inclusive.

    As such, so-called "assault weapons" fall so far INSIDE the fundamental purposes of the Second Amendment that it's not even funny.

    The author of this article is as much a blithering idiot as is the author of so many similar articles attempting to create inroads into our fundamental right.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    I know we are about HGOC, but any infringement on a right is bad in my opinion

    link: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/opini...720-story.html

    i'm also wondering where they got their idea it isn't covered by the second amendment, I've read it several times and see no such designation on any arms as "off limits"
    well, has anyone written that newspaper to let them know that the article's claim that you can buy a gun at a "gun show" without a background check is fabricated?
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    well, has anyone written that newspaper to let them know that the article's claim that you can buy a gun at a "gun show" without a background check is fabricated?
    At least misleading.

    One can buy from a private seller w/o a background check.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Here's where they erred: "...with assault weapons falling so far outside the fundamental purposes that the Second Amendment protects..."

    Let's take a good look: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    Our Second Amendment protects "the right of the people to keep and bear arms." In fact, it demands that this right "shall not be infringed," a demand that applies to each and every level throughout our entire United States of America.

    It's purpose is pre-stated, "being necessary to the security of a free State."

    The means is further pre-stated, to provide for "a well regulated Militia."

    Those who penned our Second Amendment have confirmed many things:

    1. "the people" includes every citizen of our nation.

    2. The "militia" is made up of all able-bodied men, women, and children capable of bearing and using arms

    3. "keep" means to own and/or possess

    4. "bear" means to carry

    5. "arms" means armaments, as in sticks, stones, knives, spears, bombs, grenades, muskets, rifles, handguns, cannon, mortar, and artillery. This list is not all-inclusive.

    As such, so-called "assault weapons" fall so far INSIDE the fundamental purposes of the Second Amendment that it's not even funny.

    The author of this article is as much a blithering idiot as is the author of so many similar articles attempting to create inroads into our fundamental right.
    as discussed numerous time on this forum...

    1. no, the people in the colony time were the WHITE MALEs ~ period!
    2. militia was made up of ~ see above!
    3 & 4 already beat that horse to the glue factory!
    5. This term, as it Is used in the constitution, relative to the right of citizens to bear arms, refers to the arms of a militiaman or soldier, and the word is used in its military sense. The arms of the infantry soldier are the musket and bayonet; of cavalry and dragoons, the sabre, holster pistols, and carbine; of the artillery, the field-piece, siegegun, and mortar, with side arms. The term, in this connection, cannot be made to cover such weapons as dirks, daggers, slung-shots, sword- canes, brass knuckles, and bowieknives. Law Dictionary: What is ARMS? definition of ARMS (Black's Law Dictionary)

    just for member's clarification purposes

    ipse
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    1914 edition of Bouvier Dictionary
    ARMS. Anything that a man wears for his defence, or tikes in his hands, or uses in his anger, to cast at or strike at another...The constitution of the United States, Amend, art 2, declares that, "a well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." This is said to be not a right granted by the constitution, and not dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The amendment means no more than that this right shall not be infringed by congress; it restricts the powers of the national government, leaving all matters of police regulations, for the protection of the people, to the states; U. S. v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 553, 23 L. Ed. 588.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    1914 edition of Bouvier Dictionary
    tks hadn't seen that definition

    appreciated

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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    I just don't see how crazy folks being able to legally bear damn-near military grade weapons is necessary to the security of a free state. Folks need to admit to themselves that we are not living in a time when the security of this country is dependent on an armed civilian population. Self protection is the only reason I own guns because as long as we have the National Guard and the most powerful military in the history of the world, the security of the free state is not threatened. Now, if you are talking about taking up arms against the USA, you will need more than an AR for the reasons stated in the previous sentence.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    I just don't see how crazy folks being able to legally bear damn-near military grade weapons is necessary to the security of a free state. Folks need to admit to themselves that we are not living in a time when the security of this country is dependent on an armed civilian population. Self protection is the only reason I own guns because as long as we have the National Guard and the most powerful military in the history of the world, the security of the free state is not threatened. Now, if you are talking about taking up arms against the USA, you will need more than an AR for the reasons stated in the previous sentence.
    so there is a contradictory concept when you say on one hand '...admit to themselves there is no need for an armed civilian population'; then you turn aright round and say YOU own guns for YOUR self protection.

    whom do you believe the founding fathers had in mind to fight when they set up the state level militia?

    who's statutes is the state level NG mandated to enforce? federal or states?

    if the military is fighting on this country's soil, you are correct about having an AR might not be enough, but i know a bunch of good olde boys here in NC and elsewhere in this country who do really well with their thirty ought six hunting rifles.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 07-22-2016 at 04:23 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    so there is a contradictory concept when you say on one hand '...admit to themselves there is no need for an armed civilian population'; then you turn aright round and say YOU own guns for YOUR self protection.

    whom do you believe the founding fathers had in mind to fight when they set up the state level militia?

    who's statutes is the state level NG mandated to enforce? federal or states?

    if the military is fighting on this country's soil, you are correct about having an AR might not be enough, but i know a bunch of good olde boys here in NC and elsewhere in this country who do really well with their thirty ought six hunting rifles.

    ipse
    I had a good laugh when he said he owned guns. He has never posted anything gun related on this site. The only posts I have seen are progressive nonsense.

    I own no AR's I just am not into them, but I fully support those who do. That said my 1871 buffalo rifle will reach out well past 500 yards.
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    Wee Bobby must needs learn the history and usage of the Liberator FP-45 pistol, that is some of how I see my H&K USP. As I get older, not so much, as I'll be satisfied with a small honor guard on my heavenly transit to Valhalla.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I had a good laugh when he said he owned guns. He has never posted anything gun related on this site. The only posts I have seen are progressive nonsense.

    I own no AR's I just am not into them, but I fully support those who do. That said my 1871 buffalo rifle will reach out well past 500 yards.
    alas, i must profess, i also do not have any ARs nor class III firearms...and, grabbing my ear muffs & eye protection, i will challenge your 1871 bufflalo against my 1884 trapdoor, at your leisure, with winner purchasing dinner.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    alas, i must profess, i also do not have any ARs nor class III firearms...and, grabbing my ear muffs & eye protection, i will challenge your 1871 bufflalo against my 1884 trapdoor, at your leisure, with winner purchasing dinner.

    ipse
    I will not profess to either have nor not have one, but I will sya I like the IWI upgrade to the M4. the Tavor, been looking to get my hands on one for a while. but someone else in the family already owns one.. soooooo if I ever want to target shoot one, I know where to go.

    they have very nice ergo's and the kick is minimal. the integrated MePro M21 tritium sight is kinda nice, but washes out fairly easy when looking into lighted areas from darker ones. also like the fact it is gas piston, rather then blowback styled. Their military version also has no in field issues with sand unless the grenade launcher is attached.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    grape, sorry we are sinners by discussing LGs and throw ourselves on your mercy.

    i am not sure it nor can't state it won't happen again, but this time i do plead to your mercy.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 07-22-2016 at 06:17 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    At least misleading.

    One can buy from a private seller w/o a background check.
    the article made the difference, so that's why i mentioned it.

    from the article:
    "Background checks for the sale of any gun are not required for sales by nonlicensed firearm dealers (so-called "private sales"), sales at gun shows, or online sales."

    the commas make those 3 separate sales.
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    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    That said my 1871 buffalo rifle will reach out well past 500 yards.
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    and, grabbing my ear muffs & eye protection, i will challenge your 1871 bufflalo against my 1884 trapdoor, at your leisure, with winner purchasing dinner.

    ipse
    "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo"

    i win.
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    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

    it's time to tap in to a higher reality; the one you were made for.

  19. #19
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    LOL

    "The military today uses assault weapons that are selective fire (capable of firing rounds as long as the trigger is depressed). However, semi-automatic assault weapons, commercially available now, are virtually identical to their military counterparts save their inability to be fired in automatic mode. Both versions are designed to have "spray-firing" capacity, distinguishing them from other guns like those used for sporting and hunting."

    where can i get one of these "spray-firing capacity" guns?
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    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

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  20. #20
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo"

    i win.
    that is cuz your trapdoor is flapping in the wind...

    or so i would say...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    I just don't see how crazy folks being able to legally bear damn-near military grade weapons is necessary to the security of a free state. Folks need to admit to themselves that we are not living in a time when the security of this country is dependent on an armed civilian population. Self protection is the only reason I own guns because as long as we have the National Guard and the most powerful military in the history of the world, the security of the free state is not threatened. Now, if you are talking about taking up arms against the USA, you will need more than an AR for the reasons stated in the previous sentence.
    No, what really bothers small-minded, bigoted Progs is seeing a few Korean shop-keepers able to defend themselves and their livelihoods from large, violent mobs even when the police abandon the law abiding citizens. Nothing upsets Progs more than seeing citizens getting by without government programs, except maybe to see members of minorities demonstrating such glorious independence.

    Of course, many Progs own guns for their own protection (or live in gated communities with armed guards) even as they are very much opposed to others--and especially hated conservatives or those poor inferior minorities who need special set asides to compete in society--owning guns for their protection. Again, heaven forbid that the lower socio-economic classes not be wholly dependent on the graces of government officials for the protection of life, limb, and essential property. My goodness, some of those poor creatures might actually vote for candidates not in the Democrat Party.

    As for the most powerful military in the history of the world, how is it then that a bunch of third world jungle rats managed to run us out of Vietnam? How is that neither the Soviets nor the US can seem to manage to actually conquer the people of Afghanistan? Why is it that the "JV team" (as Barrack Hussein Obama called them) of ISIS can manage to inflict so much damage against a nation with this military might?

    Are you ignorant of the concept of "asymmetric warfare"? Or just being deceitful (again, and again, and again) by pretending it doesn't exist?

    Small arms may not allow a population to conquer a modern military power. But they can most certainly provide the ability to keep that power from completely conquering the population.

    More importantly, the "security of a free state" involves more than just foreign powers or keeping the government in check. Riots, rebellions, and other internal disturbances can leave the citizenry in grave danger unless they are able to protect themselves until order can be restored.

    Besides, since an AR is powerless against an modern military, respecting my right to own them doesn't threaten your safety at all, using your "logic."

    Don't like ARs? Don't buy one. But my individual right to own firearms is settled law as you Progs like to say about any SCOTUS ruling you agree with.

    I'll not accept any more restrictions on my enumerated right to own firearms than you will accept on the court invented "right" to murder innocent, unborn babies, or to publish the most disgusting porn your sick minds can dream up.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    I just don't see how crazy folks being able to legally bear damn-near military grade weapons is necessary to the security of a free state. Folks need to admit to themselves that we are not living in a time when the security of this country is dependent on an armed civilian population. Self protection is the only reason I own guns because as long as we have the National Guard and the most powerful military in the history of the world, the security of the free state is not threatened. Now, if you are talking about taking up arms against the USA, you will need more than an AR for the reasons stated in the previous sentence.
    So, basically you've been here and read the forum since 2008 and learned nothing? Shame on you. Without some of these fine people exercising their rights under some risk you might not be able to have your personal firearms.

    What's a 'damn-near' mean? Are you a damn-near moron? I mean you're close, I'll give you that. (kidding)

    And you have no evidence to show the 'folks' are crazy. Where's your proof involving some crime? Sorry you can't lie around here and not be challenged.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 07-23-2016 at 08:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    I just don't see how crazy folks being able to legally bear damn-near military grade weapons is necessary to the security of a free state. Folks need to admit to themselves that we are not living in a time when the security of this country is dependent on an armed civilian population. Self protection is the only reason I own guns because as long as we have the National Guard and the most powerful military in the history of the world, the security of the free state is not threatened. Now, if you are talking about taking up arms against the USA, you will need more than an AR for the reasons stated in the previous sentence.
    Really? Say we aren't living in a time when the security of this country is dependent on armed civilians. You sound like you haven't really grasped the fact that the progressives in this country don't care about your personal safety, they only care about control and your brain washed ignorance is becoming. You really should stop and pay attention instead of sounding like a true boot licker. Like was said, if you don't support our Constitution in all its meaning, then why not just go ahead and turn all your guns in. I'm sure Hillary will be very pleased that one of her subjects finally submitted to her queen lifestyle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    grape, sorry we are sinners by discussing LGs and throw ourselves on your mercy.

    i am not sure it nor can't state it won't happen again, but this time i do plead to your mercy.

    ipse
    Ownership or use of LGs is NOT PROMOTING LGOC! Seems perfectly in compliance with forum rules to me!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    So, basically you've been here and read the forum since 2008 and learned nothing? Shame on you. Without some of these fine people exercising their rights under some risk you might not be able to have your personal firearms.

    What's a 'damn-near' mean? Are you a damn-near moron? I mean you're close, I'll give you that. (kidding)

    And you have no evidence to show the 'folks' are crazy. Where's your proof involving some crime? Sorry you can't lie around here and not be challenged.
    That horse one leads to water that refuses to drink is still thirsty!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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