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Thread: Clinton on Guns vs Trump on Guns - An Objective Delineation

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    Clinton on Guns vs Trump on Guns - An Objective Delineation

    I'm not sure how "objective" this might appear to others, but it appears to be reasonably valid, matching with a great many other articles I've read, along with comments on both their presidential candidacy websites. Follow the links for details, but I've copied the key points from the articles, below, with my comments in parentheses:

    Clinton on Guns:

    • adamantly for stronger gun control
    • adamantly for better gun-violence prevention
    • promised to expand background checks
    • promised to close loopholes that allow domestic abusers and the mentally ill to buy firearms
    • promised to hold dealers and manufacturers accountable for gun deaths
    • supports banning individuals on the no-fly list from being permitted to buy guns
    • believes the majority of both Americans and gun owners (if there's a difference, that's a problem) support universal background checks
    • voted against legislation protecting weapons manufacturers and deals from lawsuits over deaths associated with their products
    • voted in support of banning assault weapons for sale to the general public
    • called for the reinstatement of the assault weapons ban immediately after the Orlando shooting
    • endorsed by Everytown for Gun Safety
    • endorsed by Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America
    • endorsed by endorsed by multiple lawmakers in favor of gun control, including Reps. Carolyn Maloney, D-NY, and Jim Himes, D-CT, Sen. Ed Markey, D-MA, and Gabrielle Giffordd
    • praised by Giffords for having "the determination and toughness to stand up to the corporate gun lobby -- and the record to prove it"
    • criticized by the NRA who accuses her of trying to take away the right to own a firearm under the Second Amendment
    • criticized by Chris Cox (NRA Executive Director): "a Clinton-influenced Supreme Court would “[mean] your right to own a firearm is gone.”


    Summary Statement: "If she is elected and able to carry out all her promises, Clinton’s stances would likely make it harder for everyone, including criminals, to get their hands on firearms without undergoing a background check. However, the expanded background checks don't address other holes in the system or a lack of complete records."

    Trump on Guns:

    • strongly in favor of the Second Amendment and people's rights to have pretty much whatever guns they chose
    • advocates banning types of guns or magazine sizes, calling such bans "a total failure"
    • supports expanding gun permits to a national system, in which a permit to carry issued in one state would be valid throughout the country (as is our current drivers license system)
    • against expanding background checks
    • advocates fixing the current system he calls "broken" for its incomplete records and databases
    • advocates doing away with gun-free spaces (zones) such as those around schools, calling them "targets for the sickos"
    • advocates for better mental health treatment to catch mass shooters before they commit a crime
    • suggested America would be better to focus on "radical Islamic terrorism" as a deterrent to mass attacks as opposed to restricting gun ownership
    • puts his money where his mouth is
    • has a permit to carry a concealed weapon
    • sometimes takes his gun with him around New York City
    • has never held public office
    • as a business owner, seems to straddle the fence (a number of his resorts do not allow guns on their premises, with or without a permit)
    • according to Reuters, Trump said that he would be changing that policy
    • endorsed by the NRA; Chris Cox said, "Now is the time to unite. If your preferred candidate got out of the race, it's time to get over it,"
    • was previously and heavily criticized by NRA members for his support of an assault weapons ban in his 2000 book, "The America We Deserve" (appears to have changed his mind)
    • heavily criticized by the NRA for insinuating that the Orlando, FL shooting could have been stopped by someone with a gun at the club (What the hell? Why in the world would the NRA do that???)
    • Chris Cox stated that "drinking at a nightclub with a firearm 'defies common sense.' " (Cox fails to address the issue of armed bouncers and armed non-drinkers)


    Summary Statement: "If Trump is elected and able to enact all of his policy proposals, the current restrictions on guns could be both tightened and loosened. If he was able to reform the system of background checks to fill the gaps in its records, it would be harder for those with criminal records to buy guns in stores. But it would remain easy to legally buy firearms in private sales. At the same time, it would become a lot easier to be a gun owner, once you have one — a licensed gun owner would be able to legally carry his or her gun more or less anywhere."

    Over to the Open Carry crowd for comments...
    Last edited by since9; 07-23-2016 at 03:16 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    TL;DR past the scare-quotes
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    Vs. my gun control law ideas !

    All gun laws are void.


    Awwwww....that's a too bad for commies

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    All gun laws are void.


    Awwwww....that's a too bad for commies
    Now, lets look at United States v. Cruikshank, 92 US 542, 553 - Supreme Court 1876
    The second and tenth counts are equally defective. The right there specified is that of "bearing arms for a lawful purpose." This is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The second amendment declares that it shall not be infringed; but this, as has been seen, means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress.
    Now read Heller. Heller affirms Cruikshank by stating:
    United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542, in the course of vacating the convictions of members of a white mob for depriving blacks of their right to keep and bear arms, held that the Second Amendment does not by its own force apply to anyone other than the Federal Government. The opinion explained that the right “is not a right granted bythe Constitution [or] in any manner dependent upon thatinstrument for its existence. The second amendment . . . means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress.” 92 U. S., at 553.
    Heller also said:
    The “militia” comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederal*ists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved.
    With all this said by Heller, it only affirms that 18 USC 922(q) school gun free zone is unconstitutional. And no, the commerce clause can't be used as the backdoor.

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    .govs cannot regulate the RKBA .. either through the executive, legislative, or judicial branches ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    .govs cannot regulate the RKBA .. either through the executive, legislative, or judicial branches ..
    They can, and do it all the time. Whether or not it's Constitutional, of course, is another matter.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    I don't know what the big issue is. I had to sell all my guns because of some health issues. All I have left is an old break open 20 gauge and a cop trade in 5906.

    Other than that, I don't know nothing about nothing as to where the others I used to have went.

    Nemo

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    They can, and do it all the time. Whether or not it's Constitutional, of course, is another matter.
    Constitution is irrelevant in respect to our RKBA really ... its a natural right. Existed before any law of ours.

    They sure do try ... hoping on the sheep mentality

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    They can, and do it all the time. Whether or not it's Constitutional, of course, is another matter.
    Of course they do it all the time. That's what governments do. And courts of appeals will use any fraud they can to not comply with Supreme Court rulings.

    Our system has been corrupted from the bottom to the top. And every corrupt politician has convinced the public they can't fight City Hall.

    The majority of people will default to live in captivity of total control over their everyday lives than die fighting for their freedoms.

    And I would bet my last dime that you will turn over your guns when told to.

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    Neither Trump or Clinton if elected have the power to do most of what they claim they will do. For example Clinton says she will expand background checks, close loop holes and hold manufacturers accountable, only Congress can do that. Clinton can support those things and it is a sure bet that she would sign those items into law if Congress enacted them.

    We need to stop allowing politicians to get away with this sort of pandering.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hayes View Post
    Neither Trump or Clinton if elected have the power to do most of what they claim they will do. For example Clinton says she will expand background checks, close loop holes and hold manufacturers accountable, only Congress can do that. Clinton can support those things and it is a sure bet that she would sign those items into law if Congress enacted them.

    We need to stop allowing politicians to get away with this sort of pandering.
    Well, the OP post was to show the differences upon what they say .. not on what they would actually do. Ya have to wait and vote them in office to see

    I don't think that there is any question that Hillary is a bigger lizzurd than Trump. Trump is a small lizzurd compared to her. Want to vote for a non-lizzurd? That's Johnson..lizzurd free since 1983 (date made up...its just rythmes)
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 07-30-2016 at 02:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well, the OP post was to show the differences upon what they say .. not on what they would actually do. Ya have to wait and vote them in office to see

    I don't think that there is any question that Hillary is a bigger lizzurd than Trump. Trump is a small lizzurd compared to her. Want to vote for a non-lizzurd? That's Johnson..lizzurd free since 1983 (date made up...its just rythmes)
    yepper, one toke over the line Johnson...(deepest apologies to brewer & shipley)

    ipse
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    yepper, one toke over the line Johnson...(deepest apologies to brewer & shipley)

    ipse
    Sweet Gee Zeus! +1
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    And I would bet my last dime that you will turn over your guns when told to.
    Gee, color of law. Do you always go around believing the worst in others?

    I hope it's not catching...
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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