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Thread: Concealed Carrier Saved An Officer Under Attack

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    Concealed Carrier Saved An Officer Under Attack

    An officer and a meth user were struggling on the ground when the meth user reached for the officer's gun. A CCLer shows up just in time and saves the officer's life. This is a great story! A case for law abiding citizens carrying their gun.

    http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/07...tm_campaign=nl

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    THIS HAS TO BE A FLUKE!!!!

    It can't be.

    This calls for gun control.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    olde news as the event occurred a year ago

    29 july 16 blaze quote An Ohio man with a concealed carry permit was presented Monday with a Citizens Award of Valor for coming to the aid of police officer under attack last year. unquote

    ipse

    added...not sure why mt veron waited a year, but hey, better late than never...or the publicity was timed such to get biggest sympathy

    not sure how a nice small town le allows himself to get close enough to homeless suspect to allow them to overpower the small town le in the first place...just saying
    Last edited by solus; 07-29-2016 at 04:05 PM.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    It only took a year for officials to recognize the citizen's good deed.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    This was very reckless of the CCer. And lucky.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    It only took a year for officials to recognize the citizen's good deed.
    or had to save up $$$$ from citation fines...er, uh, hummm

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    This was very reckless of the CCer. And lucky.
    You may want to rethink your statement here in Ohio.
    2921.23 Failure to aid a law enforcement officer.

    (A) No person shall negligently fail or refuse to aid a law enforcement officer, when called upon for assistance in preventing or halting the commission of an offense, or in apprehending or detaining an offender, when such aid can be given without a substantial risk of physical harm to the person giving it.

    (B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of failure to aid a law enforcement officer, a minor misdemeanor.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    2901.22 Degrees of culpability attached to mental states.
    (D) A person acts negligently when, because of a substantial lapse from due care, the person fails to perceive or avoid a risk that the person's conduct may cause a certain result or may be of a certain nature. A person is negligent with respect to circumstances when, because of a substantial lapse from due care, the person fails to perceive or avoid a risk that such circumstances may exist.
    The guy could have been charged with failure to aid.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    concealed is concealed!!

    unless JQPublic citizen steps up and broadcasts after the fact...'i could've helped but didn't cuz...' who would know...

    no worse than someone highly trained as paramedic, is off duty w/equipment in vehicle and doesn't stop at an accident... JQPublic citizen/paramedic must live with their decision per se.

    and for a minor misdemeanor...

    the term reckless still might be applicable...

    state of NC, pointing a firearm at someone is against the law, it could leave you open to have to defend yourself if a suit is brought against you ~ homeless or not...

    as previously stated...self and loved ones, ONLY!!

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    The guy could have been charged with failure to aid.
    His name was Sir Robin ! No duty to assist, regardless of any law.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    The guy could have been charged with failure to aid.
    I think that is a bit of a stretch.

    2921.23 Failure to aid a law enforcement officer.
    No person shall negligently fail or refuse to aid a law enforcement officer, when called upon for assistance, or in apprehending or detaining an offender, when such aid can be given without a substantial risk of physical harm to the person giving it.
    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.23
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-29-2016 at 06:03 PM. Reason: fixed
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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    You may want to rethink your statement here in Ohio.
    Was it mentioned that the cop asked him for help? Cause I don't see it.
    Even if he did you are taking a much bigger chance butting in. If another cop came to the first cops aid just in time to see john-q-hero pointing a gun down at the two brawling he's just as likely to be murdered on the spot.
    And then charged with attempted murder on a cop posthumously.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I think that is a bit of a stretch.

    2921.23 Failure to aid a law enforcement officer.
    No person shall negligently fail or refuse to aid a law enforcement officer, when called upon for assistance, or in apprehending or detaining an offender, when such aid can be given without a substantial risk of physical harm to the person giving it.
    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.23
    No person shall negligently fail or refuse to aid a law enforcement officer, when called upon for assistance, or in apprehending or detaining an offender, when such aid can be given without a substantial risk of physical harm to the person giving it.

    The officer does not have to ask for assistance.

    By the way, I cannot find any case law where someone appealed a conviction under this statute. I'm betting no one has ever been prosecuted under this statute.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Was it mentioned that the cop asked him for help? Cause I don't see it.
    Even if he did you are taking a much bigger chance butting in. If another cop came to the first cops aid just in time to see john-q-hero pointing a gun down at the two brawling he's just as likely to be murdered on the spot.
    And then charged with attempted murder on a cop posthumously.
    From what I read the cop never asked for assistance. See my above comment.

    Also, I agree with you as far as taking a chance of getting shot by another cop.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    No person shall negligently fail or refuse to aid a law enforcement officer, when called upon for assistance, or in apprehending or detaining an offender, when such aid can be given without a substantial risk of physical harm to the person giving it.

    The officer does not have to ask for assistance.

    By the way, I cannot find any case law where someone appealed a conviction under this statute. I'm betting no one has ever been prosecuted under this statute.
    Not that it's worth arguing about but I disagree with the way you're reading it.

    And even if I'm wrong count me out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    It only took a year for officials to recognize the citizen's good deed.
    Sarcasm follows--- It took that long for the in-depth investigation of the good guy who came to the officer's aid and to make sure his gun was really his, lawfully in his possession, and not stolen, and finally to make sure he wasn't really a friend or aquaintance of the meth head!

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    Last edited by JoeSparky; 07-29-2016 at 10:29 PM.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Not that it's worth arguing about but I disagree with the way you're reading it.

    And even if I'm wrong count me out.
    The law and the courts say that every word and punctuation is not superfluous. For the statute to mean what you want it to mean then words and punctuation would have to be removed to get the result you want. For your result the statute would read:

    No person shall negligently refuse to aid a law enforcement officer when called upon for assistance in apprehending or detaining an offender when such aid can be given without a substantial risk of physical harm to the person giving it.

    Why would you add words and punctuation that is not needed?

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Why would you add words and punctuation that is not needed?
    "No person shall negligently fail or refuse to aid a law enforcement officer, when called upon for assistance in preventing or halting the commission of an offense, or in apprehending or detaining an offender, when such aid can be given without a substantial risk of physical harm to the person giving it."

    pfft I dunno. Why would the law say you're only obligated to help the preventing or halting the commission of an offense if you're asked to but you're obligated to help in apprehending or detaining an offender even if not asked?
    Makes no sense to me.

    Just so I'm clear... You're saying everyone around is required to help a cop apprehend or detain an offender whether or not they are asked to and whether or not he needs it?
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    "No person shall negligently fail or refuse to aid a law enforcement officer, when called upon for assistance in preventing or halting the commission of an offense, or in apprehending or detaining an offender, when such aid can be given without a substantial risk of physical harm to the person giving it."

    pfft I dunno. Why would the law say you're only obligated to help the preventing or halting the commission of an offense if you're asked to but you're obligated to help in apprehending or detaining an offender even if not asked?
    Makes no sense to me.

    Just so I'm clear... You're saying everyone around is required to help a cop apprehend or detain an offender whether or not they are asked to and whether or not he needs it?
    No, I didn't say that, the law says that,. But only if substantial risk of physical harm will not result.

    It's a crime to harbor a wanted criminal, period. The law doesn't say you only report it if asked to.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    It's a crime to harbor a wanted criminal, period. The law doesn't say you only report it if asked to.
    cite?
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Ohio does not have a 'harboring' statute, but uses Obstruction of Justice, q.v.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    cite?
    Common sense. But, if that not good enough try this on for size.

    http://nypost.com/2016/02/03/white-b...at-on-helpers/
    The woman who spent 16 years on the run with Boston mobster James “Whitey” Bulger pleaded guilty Wednesday to a criminal contempt charge for refusing to testify before a grand jury investigating whether other people helped him as a fugitive.

    Catherine Greig, 64, entered her plea in U.S. District Court in Boston without having any agreement or sentencing recommendation from prosecutors. Greig is already serving an eight-year prison term for helping Bulger while he was on the lam.
    18 U.S.C. § 1071

    I suggest you take full advantage of google.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Sarcasm follows--- It took that long for the in-depth investigation of the good guy who came to the officer's aid and to make sure his gun was really his, lawfully in his possession, and not stolen, and finally to make sure he wasn't really a friend or aquaintance of the meth head!

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    Maybe they got him for a rolling stop at a stop sign !

    Really, all traffic tickets or minor violations should be be ignored by the PD in respect to this guy as a sign of thanks.

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    Man, some people can make any good story into something bad.

    Take the same facts except change the cop to an open carry citizen. The CC guy did the right thing helping a fellow citizen. Yeah, it could have gone bad. But that is why we carry because things can go bad.

    Just my $.02...
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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