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Thread: Is pocket carrying considered Open Carry?

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    Question Is pocket carrying considered Open Carry?

    I got my first firearm today, and after taking (another) gun safety course and shooting course, I'm going to begin open carry. Is carrying my firearm in my left or right pocket, where the handle is visible, considered open or concealed carry in Arkansas?

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    Rule 14. ... This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

    Properly holstered here means with a trigger guard.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-30-2016 at 06:52 PM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Rule 14. ... This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

    Properly holstered here means with a trigger guard.
    I'm planning on getting one, now could you answer the simple yes/no question? Every time I get on forums to ask questions, they scarcely answer them, they beat around the bush and complain about how the post was made, or how the question was asked. It'd save everyone time and energy if you just typed yes or no.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizerz View Post
    I'm planning on getting one, now could you answer the simple yes/no question? Every time I get on forums to ask questions, they scarcely answer them, they beat around the bush and complain about how the post was made, or how the question was asked. It'd save everyone time and energy if you just typed yes or no.
    welcome to the forum...

    since it appears you have some level level of consciousness regarding forum life, and by your own words above seems to have experienced multiple misadventures...

    now if your misadventure(s) were an isolated incident, i would say shame on those sites for not following emily forum etiquette protocols, however the attitude being exhibited by you at this point and time shows it is not the forum's insolent behaviour but the yours!

    As such, enjoy your attitude and in response to your query..

    NO. but it could be YES, but remember i do not have the term esquire behind my name.

    enjoy you possibly short lived time here...

    again, welcome...i think

    ipse
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    Yes, it could be open carry or No, it would be concealled. It would be Very specific to your location and if any part of the gun is visible and recognizable as a firearm.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizerz View Post
    I got my first firearm today, and after taking (another) gun safety course and shooting course, I'm going to begin open carry. Is carrying my firearm in my left or right pocket, where the handle is visible, considered open or concealed carry in Arkansas?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Rule 14. ... This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

    Properly holstered here means with a trigger guard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skizerz View Post
    I'm planning on getting one, now could you answer the simple yes/no question? Every time I get on forums to ask questions, they scarcely answer them, they beat around the bush and complain about how the post was made, or how the question was asked. It'd save everyone time and energy if you just typed yes or no.
    Skizerz - You ask a question, then complain about the answer. If you liked the answer, would you want to tell the judge, I heard it on the internet?"

    You can ignore good manners, even the Forum Rules and basic tenets of OCDO, but the bottom line is your simple "Yes or No" response that has any meaning will come from a judge as you stand before the bar charged with a violation of 5-73-301 - 5-73-323.

    You might start with:
    5-73-301. Definitions.
    As used in this subchapter:
    (2) "Concealed" means to cover from observation so as to prevent public view;

    BTW - the "handle" of a handgun is generally referred to as the grip or grip frame. Hammers have handles, handguns do not.

    Since we are not giving legal advice, you will need to make your own decisions.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-30-2016 at 08:34 PM. Reason: fixed
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Act 746 amended 5-73-120 by legislature and caused a confused JQPublic

    http://ag.arkansas.gov/opinions/docs/2015-064.html

    http://www.hopeprescott.com/open-carry-law-addressed/

    http://thecabin.net/news/local/2013-...s#.V51Jt7grLIU

    bottom line, the concept of OPEN CARRY is and has been up for debate since the legislature messed with 5-73-120.

    at this time i would say OC is risky as and would consider it not a viable carry methodology

    but remember esquire is not behind my name.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I decided to save my time and energy by typing neither "yes" nor "no".
    neither "yes" nor "no"
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-31-2016 at 07:01 AM. Reason: rule #19

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    When were you born?

    "I don't remember, I was just a baby."

    OP said inside the pocket ... so I would say no, it is not open carry.

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    Even if a court ruling on this very thing had been made in Arkansas, the next judge could decide the other way in his/her court.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizerz View Post
    I got my first firearm today, and after taking (another) gun safety course and shooting course, I'm going to begin open carry. Is carrying my firearm in my left or right pocket, where the handle is visible, considered open or concealed carry in Arkansas?
    Welcome! Congratulations on your first firearm. Also very smart taking some courses and doing some shooting. IMO yes it would be OC. And as others have pointed out most laws concerning it are not explicit. And my opinion of them isn't that helpful to you. You may come across a cop that sees it's a gun and then incongruously claims you're CC in attempting to hide it.

    PS. sorry about the chilled welcome. This site does not like new members and won't tolerate them without some properly applied moist deference.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Welcome! Congratulations on your first firearm. Also very smart taking some courses and doing some shooting. IMO yes it would be OC. And as others have pointed out most laws concerning it are not explicit. And my opinion of them isn't that helpful to you. You may come across a cop that sees it's a gun and then incongruously claims you're CC in attempting to hide it.

    PS. sorry about the chilled welcome. This site does not like new members and won't tolerate them without some properly applied moist deference.
    On that we disagree completely.

    New members (growth) are the life blood of an organization such as ours; however, we do strive to educate, not to simply tolerate.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    On that we disagree completely.

    New members (growth) are the life blood of an organization such as ours; however, we do strive to educate, not to simply tolerate.
    And those that start with the posted attitude of "Y'all are twits" tend to get the chilly welcome. If that wasn't the OP intended attitude to start with then I'll welcome his revision on how he greets the group!

    Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    And those that start with the posted attitude of "Y'all are twits" tend to get the chilly welcome. If that wasn't the OP intended attitude to start with then I'll welcome his revision on how he greets the group!

    Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk
    Heh heh heh I doubt we'll get the opportunity to see him grovel for your approval.

    Let's see...
    Posts a good question.
    "Answered" with a quote of a rule implying he made some grievance in asking while not actually attempting to answer the question asked.
    Complains, Justly IMO, about the lame response.
    Super moderator defends lame non-answer to the good question...

    Yeah we'll not be seeing him again.
    Good riddance to new rubbish aye?!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    Even if a court ruling on this very thing had been made in Arkansas, the next judge could decide the other way in his/her court.
    Good point ... I have this issue currently where one judge in a court ruled one way and the next judge in the same court ruled just the opposite. The good news for me is that the original judge that ruled in my favor moved up to the reviewing court.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizerz View Post
    I got my first firearm today, and after taking (another) gun safety course and shooting course, I'm going to begin open carry. Is carrying my firearm in my left or right pocket, where the handle is visible, considered open or concealed carry in Arkansas?
    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Welcome! Congratulations on your first firearm. Also very smart taking some courses and doing some shooting. IMO yes it would be OC. And as others have pointed out most laws concerning it are not explicit. And my opinion of them isn't that helpful to you. You may come across a cop that sees it's a gun and then incongruously claims you're CC in attempting to hide it.

    PS. sorry about the chilled welcome. This site does not like new members and won't tolerate them without some properly applied moist deference.
    so twoskinsonemanns, it is your stated opinion that our responses were not helpful to an interpretation of putting the OP's new firearm (sorry, did you discern if the OP's gun was pistol or revolver; full sized or j-frame) into their L or R pocket (skin tight jeans, or slacks, w/deep pockets or shallow pockets, with the handle (uh, didn't the OP state they just took ANOTHER safety/shooting courses ~ wouldn't this lead any reader to presume that firearm parts terminology would/should been known/used by the poster?) showing.

    then of course the OP's attitude thrown after the first response was proffered was precious and led the conversation to another level set by the OP.

    so you say yes, it would be acceptable OC! yet if you investigated the cites provided , you would have noticed the entire concept of OC'g is up in the air and has been for awhile, oh wait you stated "MOST LAWS"..."are not explicit." now what a helpful phrase w/o any further elaboration was extremely helpful to the OP wasn't it!

    so any further helpful and exemplary advice would you like to impart to the OP about shoving a gun (rev/pistol ~ full size/j-frame) in their pocket while they follow your lead OC'g amongst the AK countryside?

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    so twoskinsonemanns, it is your stated opinion that our responses were not helpful to an interpretation of putting the OP's new firearm (sorry, did you discern if the OP's gun was pistol or revolver; full sized or j-frame) into their L or R pocket (skin tight jeans, or slacks, w/deep pockets or shallow pockets, with the handle (uh, didn't the OP state they just took ANOTHER safety/shooting courses ~ wouldn't this lead any reader to presume that firearm parts terminology would/should been known/used by the poster?) showing.

    then of course the OP's attitude thrown after the first response was proffered was precious and led the conversation to another level set by the OP.

    so you say yes, it would be acceptable OC! yet if you investigated the cites provided , you would have noticed the entire concept of OC'g is up in the air and has been for awhile, oh wait you stated "MOST LAWS"..."are not explicit." now what a helpful phrase w/o any further elaboration was extremely helpful to the OP wasn't it!

    so any further helpful and exemplary advice would you like to impart to the OP about shoving a gun (rev/pistol ~ full size/j-frame) in their pocket while they follow your lead OC'g amongst the AK countryside?

    ipse
    Not really. It was my only intention to encourage a little courtesy and long sufferance to new members seeking help from crodgity ol ********* who get kicks from belittling young new gun owners.

    BTW I went to JCPenny in the mall today with a .380 tossed in my front jeans pocket without a holster. If that gives you apoplexy I'll surely mourn.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-31-2016 at 08:47 PM. Reason: No hidden F-bombs, please.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Not really. It was my only intention to encourage a little courtesy and long sufferance to new members seeking help from crodgity ol ********* who get kicks from belittling young new gun owners.

    BTW I went to JCPenny in the mall today with a .380 tossed in my front jeans pocket without a holster. If that gives you apoplexy I'll surely mourn.
    wow, you have such a great gift...you were able to discern from two sentences the OP was young...outstanding!!

    well, thankfully you didn't need to defend yourself in penny's or you could have experienced a new but viable form of BC.

    but i see you over time have picked up the nuance of throwing playground name calling insults when something is said that doesn't agree w/you. candidly, not so sure which trait to find more vilifying...easy decision tho...

    twoskinsonemanns...stick with what you know and works for ya, thankfully your trait shows your lack of maturity which diminishes your credibility more than being "crodgity"!!

    go well

    ipse
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-31-2016 at 08:48 PM. Reason: quote edited by Mod
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Sounds like this guy is aware that the subject of 'open carry' in Arkansas is listed as 'unclear' due to different interpretations of a law about 'peaceful journey' with a firearm.

    He sounds like he doesn't have enough money to buy a holster, that he doesn't have a permit, and he wants to just stick his gun in his pocket.

    He doesn't even care to know what part is showing, or what it's called or how much. He couldn't be bothered to post a picture.

    Thus one could conclude he's not serious...about almost everything.

    I'd say 'go do it and see what happens, and report back'. I mean that's the gold standard on confusing carry laws, right?

    What's the worst that could happen to an irascible resident of Arkansas? Probably it would be that he'd drop it in the aisle in the A.B.C. store, and the clerk would admonish him to 'get a holster, buddy'.

    HTH.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    wow, you have such a great gift...you were able to discern from two sentences the OP was young...outstanding!!

    well, thankfully you didn't need to defend yourself in penny's or you could have experienced a new but viable form of BC.

    but i see you over time have picked up the nuance of throwing playground name calling insults when something is said that doesn't agree w/you. candidly, not so sure which trait to find more vilifying...easy decision tho...

    twoskinsonemanns...stick with what you know and works for ya, thankfully your trait shows your lack of maturity which diminishes your credibility more than being "crodgity"!!

    go well

    ipse
    Well I never said the OP was young now did I. Please try to keep up. And don't put words in my mouth.
    If I had been forced to defend myself in penny's I was perfectly capable (outside the 3-4 minutes my jeans were on the Dressing Room floor while trying on new slacks).
    And sure I will stick with what I know. I know the way my 380 sits in my pocket all lonesome. I know that it had the safety on which is very unusual for any gun I carry and I would have to deal with it. And I know how to draw it, having practiced several times before I left the house.
    But even still I enjoy the education I get here at OCDO. I appreciate all the advice given and try to implement anything useful anytime I can. Whether it come from ol dusty crodgity fuksticks or young stupid headstrong asshats. Either way I use what is best for me.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Query for forum members .... if you wore a shirt that noted "I am carrying a handgun" .. would this be OCing?

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Thus one could conclude he's not serious...about almost everything.
    This is ridiculous! Can none of you remember what it was like to be excited about something and not necessarily have money or experience to fit in with the Kimber crowd? FFS How about offering help with a side dish of understanding and welcome. Jesus Roosevelt Christ on a stick!
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  23. #23
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Query for forum members .... if you wore a shirt that noted "I am carrying a handgun" .. would this be OCing?
    I'd wear that. But only when I am forced to cross over into Maryland where I am outlawed from carrying.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  24. #24
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Was the "handle" visible and sticking out of your pocket.
    my .380 does't have a handle
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Never ask a question that you may not like the answer.

    No matter what we tell the OP it will no matter in the court of street justice. IMO pocket carry is dangerous, and just does not make sense if the intent is to OC, but that is my opinion. How a person carries is their business, and their responsibility to deal with the fall out.
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