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Thread: GAO: The ATF Is Illegally Hoarding American Gun Owners’ Personal Information

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    GAO: The ATF Is Illegally Hoarding American Gun Owners’ Personal Information

    http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/02/th...l-information/

    What GAO Found
    To carry out its criminal and regulatory enforcement responsibilities, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has 25 firearms-related data systems, 16 of which contain retail firearms purchaser information from a federal firearms licensee (FFL)—such as firearms importers and retailers. GAO selected 4 systems for review that are used in the firearms tracing process, based on factors such as the inclusion of retail purchaser information and original data.
    • The Out-of-Business Records Imaging System (OBRIS) stores nonsearchable images of firearms records from out-of-business FFLs. Such FFLs are required by law to provide their records to ATF.
    • Access 2000 (A2K) provides servers for National Tracing Center (NTC) personnel to electronically search participating FFLs’ records at their premises for firearms disposition information during a trace.
    • The Firearm Recovery Notification Program (FRNP) maintains information on firearms that have not yet been recovered by law enforcement, but are suspected of being involved in criminal activity and are associated with an ATF criminal investigation.
    • Multiple Sales (MS) includes firearms information from multiple sales reports. FFLs are required by law to report to ATF sales of two or more revolvers or pistols during 5 consecutive business days. ATF policy requires that certain information in MS be deleted after 2 years if the firearm has not been connected to a trace.
    [ ... ]. http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/678091.pdf
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    I got that same email.
    I think it was sent to all members, friends, and followers.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Why is it that Virginia is allowed to put permit holders in the Virginia Criminal Information Network (VCIN)?

    They are not supposed to be linking up drivers' licenses with permits. Some people when stopped have the LEO tell them he does not need to see a permit, that he already has it pop up when their computer-cam scans the license plate.

    To me, it 'implies' that LAC and background checked and vetted permit holders are ersatz criminals.

    The clerk still asks for a copy of the VA Dr's license and or to copy it when you re-sub in person. Claims it helps them out. One of our trainers was told it was mandatory and had to have a supervisor and then when they gave him his card it was with sarcasm and they almost threw it at him. It's their job, they should know their job and they shouldn't be all huffy when asked to -do- their job properly.

    FWIW

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Why is it that Virginia is allowed to put permit holders in the Virginia Criminal Information Network (VCIN)?

    They are not supposed to be linking up drivers' licenses with permits. Some people when stopped have the LEO tell them he does not need to see a permit, that he already has it pop up when their computer-cam scans the license plate.

    --snipped--
    It is my understanding that they have linked the vehicle owner/registration, not the driver's license, with CHP holders. No cite provided.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Why is it that Virginia is allowed to put permit holders in the Virginia Criminal Information Network (VCIN)?

    They are not supposed to be linking up drivers' licenses with permits. Some people when stopped have the LEO tell them he does not need to see a permit, that he already has it pop up when their computer-cam scans the license plate.

    To me, it 'implies' that LAC and background checked and vetted permit holders are ersatz criminals.

    The clerk still asks for a copy of the VA Dr's license and or to copy it when you re-sub in person. Claims it helps them out. One of our trainers was told it was mandatory and had to have a supervisor and then when they gave him his card it was with sarcasm and they almost threw it at him. It's their job, they should know their job and they shouldn't be all huffy when asked to -do- their job properly.

    FWIW
    You bet...and I'm certain its the same with other police encounters. My state's governor already has said that if they know a person has a gun via info gotten from registration that the response to a place would be different.

    Libertarians already understand why all gun laws are void ... folks comply with registration laws only to be put into these issues.

    Now your kid has a party that gets too loud when you are outta town ... SWAT team visit.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    It is my understanding that they have linked the vehicle owner/registration, not the driver's license, with CHP holders. No cite provided.
    They won't tell you.

    http://www.vsp.virginia.gov/CJIS.shtm

    Does not list CHPs or how they actually get entered into it. You have to renew your license, and you are asked to give your license to the clerk. You only register the car once. What if you get your permit after that?

    Moving on to their newsletter, this is chilling (among other things in there):

    http://www.vsp.virginia.gov/download...-July_2015.pdf
    The 2015 Virginia General Assembly passed Senate Bill 1264 amended Virginia Code §19.2
    -
    389 allowing
    Virginia Law Enforcement officers access to involuntary admission and incapacity information in the
    Virginia Mental Health Files.
    That means errors, wrongful admissions, etc. put you in their clutches...er, I mean tentacles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    They won't tell you.

    http://www.vsp.virginia.gov/CJIS.shtm

    Does not list CHPs or how they actually get entered into it. You have to renew your license, and you are asked to give your license to the clerk. You only register the car once. What if you get your permit after that?

    Moving on to their newsletter, this is chilling (among other things in there):

    http://www.vsp.virginia.gov/download...-July_2015.pdf


    That means errors, wrongful admissions, etc. put you in their clutches...er, I mean tentacles.

    Ask to inspect the public records of time cards (for 1 yr) and CV/resumes/employment applications for employees who perform such work (be specific in your request--limiting it only to those people who do this work). And if they cannot ID any specific person who performs such work then all employees who may or could have have done this work.

    Now what they gonna do? They are public records.

    I do this all the time ... when I cannot get an answer of "who did this"...I simply ask for the time sheets/CV/resume of the person who did the work. They don't have to answer questions directly but they cannot hide these public records that would answer that question.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 08-04-2016 at 02:43 PM.

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    it is not hard to believe many dealers back in 94 when the first so called AWB went into effect received visits by the ATF and had 4473s copied that had on them so called AW's.

    They were preparing for confiscation back then but when the weapons were grandfathered they didn't have to use them.

    The taking and coping of those 4473's were totally against the law a few dealers complained but the records were copied anyway.

    So they have been breaking the law for many decades unless we have a total revamping of ATF or it is dissolved not much can be done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    it is not hard to believe many dealers back in 94 when the first so called AWB went into effect received visits by the ATF and had 4473s copied that had on them so called AW's.

    They were preparing for confiscation back then but when the weapons were grandfathered they didn't have to use them.

    The taking and coping of those 4473's were totally against the law a few dealers complained but the records were copied anyway.

    So they have been breaking the law for many decades unless we have a total revamping of ATF or it is dissolved not much can be done.
    They did not visit me too often, given I had "office hours: 2pm-2:230pm on Sunday....They never got any 4473s from me in such a manner .. nor did my stte that also required a goofy unlawful form to be filed with them.

    I did get a visit when they canvased my neighborhood (every other house had a FFL it seemed) trying to scare people in giving up their kitchen table businesses .. I showed them the curb muy pronto. "You might go to prison yada yada yada" ... hit the curb G-man !

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