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Heat in Virginia leads to cops violating 4th amend to hand out ice cream ? Whaat?

OC for ME

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Completely eliminated our 4th amendment ?

What you doing about it then?
Yes completely. If you read those two opinions you should come to the same conclusion. There is no requirement that you read them. If you choose not to read them then you should just take my word for it.

Do about it? I must have standing to do something about it...I do not.Y

ou repeatedly file civil suits...or so you state, you seem to be in a position far better suited to do something about it. Get busy.
 

davidmcbeth

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Yes completely. If you read those two opinions you should come to the same conclusion. There is no requirement that you read them. If you choose not to read them then you should just take my word for it.

Do about it? I must have standing to do something about it...I do not.Y

ou repeatedly file civil suits...or so you state, you seem to be in a position far better suited to do something about it. Get busy.

I am busy ... I am filing new complaints this week ... some relating to the 4th amendment ... we'll see how it goes :) Wish me luck.


Also you do not need to be a victim prior to filing any claim .. so you CAN file a case if you wanted to....
 
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hammer6

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yeah.. he see's something in your car and believes it to be illegal, he can and will search your car, this is the passanger compartment/cabin of the car. locked items can easily be refused to be open.

does he necessarily have a green light to do so? no, but they will, and if they want to really be ****** bags, cause they don't find anything, they call out the K9 unit.

I would know it has happened to me. the issue with it is the officers mentality.

and no window tint does NOT accomplish the same thing, because the windshield is clear and must remain so under law. if he peeks in through the front and sees something. then guess what, all your tint didn't do **** now did it?

any good PREPERATION requires some contingency and redundancy.

so, if something is on your backseat, or backseat floor, it's visible through the windshield? maybe if the cop is standing on top of your hood.

having dark window tint is RAS to get the K9 unit out? hmm..
 

solus

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so, if something is on your backseat, or backseat floor, it's visible through the windshield? maybe if the cop is standing on top of your hood.

having dark window tint is RAS to get the K9 unit out? hmm..


no hammer6, tinted windows have nothing to do with RAS, however, the nice LE's comment...."what is that smell i am smelling? are there drugs in your vehicle?" will definitely get the nice puppy to sniff your vehicle while you sit on the curb in front of traffic running up and down the busy, public avenue where you live.

'ok you are good to go, the dog didn't find any substances' and you didn't even get kissed first!!

ipse
 
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utbagpiper

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so you assume that everyone has the same level of vision? just because dark tint may prevent one person from seeing in the dark, doesn't mean another person can't see either. that's not a good enough excuse to me.

Are you also going to claim that some people are good enough drivers that they should be allowed to drive while texting, or while their BAC is higher than 0.10%?

Show me the person with good enough eyesight to reliably and safely operate a vehicle at night with the windshield and driver's side windows tinted sufficiently to provide actual privacy, especially while stopped such that an observer can walk up close to that window and use his hands to block out external light sources. You will need to demonstrate this via objective testing; merely not having a crash over some indeterminate period of time will not satisfy me.


what if you have a truck and no cover on the bed? then what? carrying around a blanket when there's a perfectly good invention that requires no space inside your cab. not a good enough excuse either.

just because you can/can't doesn't mean i should/shouldn't.

Feel free to tint your windows as dark as you can safely operate the car. If you really think that is materially darker than current law allows, have a ball demonstrating that via objective testing as opposed to simply being part of the 75% of all drivers who are convinced their skills are above average.

But like another poster, you've completely ignored my proposed objective test that demonstrates self-consistency.

Will you rely on your window tinting alone to provide sufficient privacy as to avoid smash and grabs of valuable, hard-to-replace items left on the seat of your car?

If you can make a credible case that you do or would, then I think you can make a self-consistent claim that window tinting should be considered a sufficient effort at privacy to invoke in a legal case involving what is or isn't in plain sight for a cop.

If you would not leave your favorite, family-heirloom gun sitting on the seat, relying only on your favored window tint to avoid smash and grabs, then you cannot make a self-consistent claim of privacy regarding whether that gun was in "plain sight" for a cop looking in the same window that the thief in the shopping mall parking lot would look in.

Alternatively, rationally explain why my proposed test is not rational or applicable.

Those who live by staunch reliance on absolute self-consistency, sometimes find themselves hoisted on the same principle.

Charles
 

utbagpiper

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i didn't realize i was only allowed to have valuables if i promised to lock them up when i leave them in my car. i didn't realize that i had to have [bold]any[/b] justification for anything i choose to do that doesn't affect the safety, well-being, or liberty of another citizen.

Until now, I didn't realize your reading comprehension was so poor as to take an entirely incorrect meaning from my post.

You're free to do whatever you like with your valuables. The question is whether or not your behavior regarding window tint is self-consistent across multiple scenarios.



i can do whatever i want, whenever i want....

Do you stop your feet, turn red in the face, and scream while typing this?


as long as it doesn't affect someone else's liberties. how do you determine that equates to anarchy?

The great question is what affects someone else's liberties? For a long time, a lot of people argued that driving drunk didn't affect anyone else. Crash data shows otherwise. Some anarchists today still argue that driving drunk shouldn't be a crime unless/until someone is actually injured. By that logic, driving the wrong way on the freeway only becomes a crime after a crash occurs.

of course there should be rules- rules concerning actions that affect others. if i can see out my tinted windows safely, then move along son and getcha eyes checked.

If you believe your superhuman vision allows you to see out of windows tinted darkly enough to actually provide real visual privacy, then you can demonstrate that via a night time vision test looking through those windows. Standards on acceptable tint levels for windshields and driver's side windows are based on allowing enough light into the car for the driver to safely operate that car.

Simply not crashing (for some period of time) is not evidence that your car or you are actually safe, any more than a single crash is definitive evidence that there was something inherently unsafe about either. There are risks with driving. There are acceptable level of risks and there are unacceptable levels of risks. Cutting the available light to the driver by more than about 30% creates an unacceptable risk to the rest of society.

You are, of course, perfectly free to black out your windows entirely...so long as you don't drive your car on the same roads that I and my loved ones, and other civilized people are using.

Charles
 

OC for ME

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- Designed for one-way viewing. - During daylight hours this film functions as a mirror when viewed from the exterior.
- Allows you to see out while others cannot see in.
- Great for reducing solar heat, glare and UV

https://www.amazon.com/Mirror-Window-Film-Wide-Roll/dp/B004S7HPJ0

https://www.windowtint.com/pages/state-window-tint-laws
Current vehicle window tinting (covering) technology may provide the level of privacy that one desires. This too may provoke a cop to seize you.
 

davidmcbeth

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Current vehicle window tinting (covering) technology may provide the level of privacy that one desires. This too may provoke a cop to seize you.

.govs only want you to be transparent ... no transparency from the .govs though ...

Zero chance of me convicting anyone related to tinting ...
 

hammer6

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Until now, I didn't realize your reading comprehension was so poor as to take an entirely incorrect meaning from my post.

You're free to do whatever you like with your valuables. The question is whether or not your behavior regarding window tint is self-consistent across multiple scenarios.





Do you stop your feet, turn red in the face, and scream while typing this?




The great question is what affects someone else's liberties? For a long time, a lot of people argued that driving drunk didn't affect anyone else. Crash data shows otherwise. Some anarchists today still argue that driving drunk shouldn't be a crime unless/until someone is actually injured. By that logic, driving the wrong way on the freeway only becomes a crime after a crash occurs.



If you believe your superhuman vision allows you to see out of windows tinted darkly enough to actually provide real visual privacy, then you can demonstrate that via a night time vision test looking through those windows. Standards on acceptable tint levels for windshields and driver's side windows are based on allowing enough light into the car for the driver to safely operate that car.

Simply not crashing (for some period of time) is not evidence that your car or you are actually safe, any more than a single crash is definitive evidence that there was something inherently unsafe about either. There are risks with driving. There are acceptable level of risks and there are unacceptable levels of risks. Cutting the available light to the driver by more than about 30% creates an unacceptable risk to the rest of society.

You are, of course, perfectly free to black out your windows entirely...so long as you don't drive your car on the same roads that I and my loved ones, and other civilized people are using.

Charles



this is what i hear when i read what you write:


why do you need to open carry? you can conceal just fine without having to "show off". i don't think you need to open carry, because concealed carry is just fine. i don't think you should open carry, because someone could come up behind you and snatch it and shoot you. i don't think you should open carry because it could frighten or scare people.



just because you can't see out a tinted window, doesn't mean i can't. if you can't see out of a tinted window, then don't tint your windows. if i can see out of the window but you can't, why should i have to conform to your standards? if i drive with tinted windows which i can't see out of safely, then i am potentially liable for whatever happens. just because someone has dark tint that you can't see through, doesn't mean that's the end all point for tint. if i can safely see through tinted windows, i don't need to pass a "test" to prove it....you sound like a gun grabber.

there was absolutely no reason to bring up alcohol as an argument- it's not the same thing. window tint does not impair "judgement", but alcohol does.
 

Grapeshot

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--snipped--

there was absolutely no reason to bring up alcohol as an argument- it's not the same thing. window tint does not impair "judgement", but alcohol does.
They both have an impact on ability to perform effectively.
 
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hammer6

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They both have an impact on ability to perform effectively.

okay, i'll give you that, but it's a cop out for him to try and shift it to alcohol.

there's not an arbitrary ban on the number of alcoholic beverages one can consume before becoming "impaired to drive" according to the law, it's a certain percentage.

driver A has 6 drinks, and blows a .07 = legal.

driver B has 3 drinks, and blows a .09 = illegal.


banning tint to a certain level is arbitrary-

5% tint = illegal (i chose 5% as a random number)


driver A can see clearly out of window up to 10% tint, but has 6% tint because up to 5% is legal = he's impaired at 9% but law allows 5%.

driver B can see clearly out of window up to 3% tint, but has 5% tint because anything higher would be illegal = he's not impaired at 5%.


the impairment level of driver A is not equal to the impairment level of driver B when looking through 5% tint. that would be like saying, since driver B gets drunk at 3 drinks, driver A can only have 3 drinks. if you really want to use alcohol as an excuse, then you can honestly say any impairment should be illegal: texting, putting on makeup, drinking a soda, eating, talking to someone in passenger seat, having tint, having a brakelight out, needing an oil change, having bad brakes, having a bad transmission, etc while driving...they are all impairments that affect one's ability to perform effectively. (although all at different levels of impairment.)


You are, of course, perfectly free to black out your windows entirely...so long as you don't drive your car on the same roads that I and my loved ones, and other civilized people are using.

Charles

so, since any number of things can effectively impair somoene's ability to perform (drive effectively), thus affecting the safety of your family on the road, driving should be illegal in and of itself. right?
 

Grapeshot

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An illuminating exercise!

I recently had an eye exam by a new to me different ophthalmologist who commented on my unusual depth of field and high pupillary aperture number. I explained that I never wear dark glasses, preferring to adapt iris color deeper and small pupils.
Contact lenses for deeper color? Small pupils would work for bright, daylight hours.

OTOH - some people work at night where amber/yellow lenses have a benefit.
 

utbagpiper

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this is what i hear when i read what you write:


why do you need to open carry? ....

It now seems that both your reading comprehension and your rational thinking skills are lacking. You "hear" something dramatically different than I wrote. And what you hear is not even a logical analogy for what I wrote.

There is no comparison between simply choosing to take offense at an OC'd firearm, vs measurable impairment of excessive window tint or too much alcohol in your system. An OC'd firearm does NOTHING to impair your ability to safely function in public. There is no analog to the current discussion except for the simpleton, frenzied mind, desperate to claim that all who support RKBA must also agree on every other issue.


just because you can't see out a tinted window, doesn't mean i can't. if you can't see out of a tinted window, then don't tint your windows. if i can see out of the window but you can't, why should i have to conform to your standards? if i drive with tinted windows which i can't see out of safely, then i am potentially liable for whatever happens. just because someone has dark tint that you can't see through, doesn't mean that's the end all point for tint. if i can safely see through tinted windows, i don't need to pass a "test" to prove it....you sound like a gun grabber.

there was absolutely no reason to bring up alcohol as an argument- it's not the same thing. window tint does not impair "judgement", but alcohol does.

Alcohol is a very good (not perfect, but good) analog to window tint in a couple of respects.

1-At some level (BAC or % of light blocked), both impair your ability to safely operate your vehicle.

2-There are always going to be those who think their level of impairment is so much less than is everyone else's. Whether it is the stupid lush of bygone days who claimed that "a few drinks loosen me up and I drive better," or the ignorant and arrogant kid who thinks he can safely compose and read text messages while driving at 60 mph, or the guy who thinks he has super vision and can handle tint so much better than everyone else, odds are good all three are grossly over-estimating their own ability.

3-There is always going to be the nut case who argues that until he actually crashes, no crime has been committed. Sorry, that just doesn't fly with rational people. Point a gun at me, I don't have to wait for you to pull the trigger. Drive around with a clearly unsecured load and we don't have to wait for something to come off your truck and wipe out the motorcyclist behind you. And if you are drunk, high, texting, didn't wear your glasses, or have tinted your windows to the point that you cannot see what needs to be seen to safely operate your vehicle, you are endangering the public even if you manage to go months without actually causing a crash. That a drunk's fellow drivers manage to avoid him, that they compensate for his bad driving, doesn't mean he wasn't committed a real crime and endangering the public, infringing on their rights to use the roadways reasonably.

That said, for those who do read well, I previously posted (a couple of times) to the effect that I'd be fine with an objective test about how much tint you can handle. You've ignored that offer in favor of attacking me personally in terms of what I can handle vs what you can handle. That suggest to me you are just looking to be argumentative and pick a fight, rather than having a rational discussion. So be it.

In practice, the objective, personal test is largely unworkable. We'd need to mark your license with what tint level you can handle (and what level of BAC you can handle, and a host of other impairment levels) so any officer knows whether you are currently impaired or not. At some point, we have to make laws for the masses, with some margin of safety. We don't set speed limits for the 1% professional drivers cruising down the freeways in their Italian supercars. Such persons can safely handle 150 mph under good conditions, I'd think. But 99% of drivers cannot, even if 75% of them think they can. Similarly, most DUIs have a BAC of at least 50% over the legal limit. Turns out that a BAC of 0.08% or 0.10% provides decent or minimal, respectively, margin of safety for most drivers. Are there those who drive better at a BAC of 0.12% than can their neighbor stone cold sober? In a nation of 320 million persons I'd be shocked if we can't find a fair number of examples. But we simply cannot make laws on such an individual basis.

All of which is a moot point to the original argument about window tint. Whether the limit on the windshield is 5% or 10%, you're still talking about more than enough light transmission for an officer to see through the windshield and into the car. At the practical level, on most vehicles, window tint is not going to provide real visual privacy simply because of the practical limits to driving safely. Remove all evil laws about window tint than puerile anarchists stomp their feet and shout "I can do whatever want" about, and the windshield will have to remain transparent enough to operate the car.

At this point I note that neither you nor the other anarchist who tried to make hay over window tint law has bothered to even attempt address my logical test on self consistency regarding privacy. One more evidence that you have no desire to engage in a rational discussion, but simply to yell and pick a fight.

Let me know if you change your objective.

Charles
 
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