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Thread: Virginia State Police Unable to Process Background Checks

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Virginia State Police Unable to Process Background Checks

    Just got this notice:

    All Virginia Dealers,

    The FBI NICS has transitioned to a New NICS System today. VCheck is experiencing connectivity issues with the new system. Dealers may continue to enter transactions and they will be worked once the issues are resolved.

    Shelley R Walker
    Agency Management Analyst
    Virginia Department of State Police
    Firearms Transaction Center
    PO Box 85608
    Richmond, VA 23285
    Shelley walker@vsp.virginia.gov
    804.674.2786
    804.674.2292[FTC Help Desk]
    804.674.2791[fax]
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    It happens occasionally.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    It happens occasionally.
    3 days, then transactions completed without background checks.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    3 days, then transactions completed without background checks.
    Can/may be completed - not will be.

    An FFL is not obligated to complete any transaction to which he is not comfortable or even just because he wants to wait until the BC is completed and the transfer approved.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Can/may be completed - not will be.

    An FFL is not obligated to complete any transaction to which he is not comfortable or even just because he wants to wait until the BC is completed and the transfer approved.
    this concept is also applicable in states which are not mandated to accomplish NICS background checks, such as NC where citizens only have to produce a PPP or CHP to the FFL.

    ipse
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I was going to say, I bet you're hard-pressed to find a FFL willing to release a firearm after three days with no OK, even if it is legal. Sort of like consenting to a search. Nothing good can happen (for the FFL), but lots of bad.

    TFred

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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    And that, friends, IS the point of the exercise.........

    [ I was never denied any purchase, just inconvenienced and irritated.[/QUOTE]

    If you cause enough problems some people will not purchase or carry or get permits.........
    and by drips and drabs we are diluted.
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    Are you a Rifleman yet?
    http://appleseedinfo.org

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    Oh Horrible Horrible. If the guy in SC had to wait on the full background check those 9 people at the church would still be alive. Fear and Scare. Stop that possibility.

    Nemo
    Last edited by Va_Nemo; 08-11-2016 at 04:08 PM.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    --Moderator edited as off-topic for Va, sub-forum--


    David,

    This is about Virginia and the overlapping federal and commonwealth laws here. Please stop the clown routine, this is serious.

    You usually provide strange and harmless comment of a comical nature. Here you have stated that you have committed federal felonies. First I do not know what a directory BR check is. I cannot find such a thing in the 1968 GCA. Second, if you are an FFL selling from inventory, not to another FFL or to the exempted (government agencies,etc.) or are in a state with recognition of handgun permits as a valid exception to the background check then transferring without a background check is a felony. Intentionally transferring without a 4473 is a separate felony.

    Your admissions on the forum make a pretty good case for the FBI.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 08-12-2016 at 03:51 PM. Reason: Off topic
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    snip...

    I cannot find such a thing in the 1968 GCA. Second, if you are an FFL selling from inventory, not to another FFL or to the exempted (government agencies,etc.) or are in a state with recognition of handgun permits as a valid exception to the background check then transferring without a background check is a felony. Intentionally transferring without a 4473 is a separate felony.

    snip

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    thundar, here are better resources then the 1964 GCA:
    ATF Publication 5300.4, ATF Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide, revised Sept 2014.https://www.atf.gov/file/11241/download
    or
    ATF Publication 5300.5, 31st Edition of State Laws and Published Ordinances- Firearms https://www.atf.gov/file/58536/download

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    David,

    This is about Virginia and the overlapping federal and commonwealth laws here. Please stop the clown routine, this is serious.

    You usually provide strange and harmless comment of a comical nature. Here you have stated that you have committed federal felonies. First I do not know what a directory BR check is. I cannot find such a thing in the 1968 GCA. Second, if you are an FFL selling from inventory, not to another FFL or to the exempted (government agencies,etc.) or are in a state with recognition of handgun permits as a valid exception to the background check then transferring without a background check is a felony. Intentionally transferring without a 4473 is a separate felony.

    Your admissions on the forum make a pretty good case for the FBI.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar

    Grape said this was off topic ... but insofar as "directory" means in the context used....this may assist you and others in examination of laws and their mandatory or non-mandatory nature (just because a law says this or that does not always mean this or that):

    http://definitions.uslegal.com/d/directory-provision/

    Once you have gotten a hint at the subject matter of directory provisions you may hop over to google scholar or elsewhere and look at specific laws and how they are decided as to their nature. An interesting area of study.

    I always ask "is this mandatory or directory?" and conclude that many laws are indeed not mandatory.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Grape said this was off topic ... --snipped--
    It still is off topic.

    It has nothing directly to do with why the VSP is unable to process BG checks.

    Start a new thread if you like, but let's not push the OP of this one aside.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member glockfan's Avatar
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    Something I just learned...so you don't any longer need to prove 'citizenship' when you buy an 'assault weapon' in Virginia. Used to be you had to supply a birth certificate or voter registration card.

    When did it change? Was it a change of law?

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockfan View Post
    Something I just learned...so you don't any longer need to prove 'citizenship' when you buy an 'assault weapon' in Virginia. Used to be you had to supply a birth certificate or voter registration card.

    When did it change? Was it a change of law?
    From one of the VCDL Alerts:

    "The following laws become effective on Friday, July 1 2016:

    ...


    * No second ID will be required when purchasing a firearm. For so-called “assault firearms,” the requirement for proof of citizenship is gone."

    I don't have the info handy on which bill number it was...

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    It's true that after three days, the background check is irrelevant. If there is a contract for the purchase and sale of the gun, then the dealer must go through with it, whether or not the background check has been completed, or be in breach of contract and violation of the Virginia Consumer Protection Act. Note that a contract can exist whether or not the money's been collected - the offer to sell matched by the promise to pay money equals a contract. Refusal to sell on the terms stated is good for treble damages and attorney's fees under Va. Code sxn 59.1-204. See sxn 59.1-200(8).
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    It's true that after three days, the background check is irrelevant. If there is a contract for the purchase and sale of the gun, then the dealer must go through with it, whether or not the background check has been completed, or be in breach of contract and violation of the Virginia Consumer Protection Act. Note that a contract can exist whether or not the money's been collected - the offer to sell matched by the promise to pay money equals a contract. Refusal to sell on the terms stated is good for treble damages and attorney's fees under Va. Code sxn 59.1-204. See sxn 59.1-200(8).
    Interesting.

    Wonder if such action has ever been initiated against an FFL who refused the sale just because he/she thought something wasn't quite right and if so what the outcome was.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Interesting.

    Wonder if such action has ever been initiated against an FFL who refused the sale just because he/she thought something wasn't quite right and if so what the outcome was.
    I refused sales. Zero repercussions. Mostly for folks being .govs and other lizzurds.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    From one of the VCDL Alerts:

    "The following laws become effective on Friday, July 1 2016:

    ...


    * No second ID will be required when purchasing a firearm. For so-called “assault firearms,” the requirement for proof of citizenship is gone."

    I don't have the info handy on which bill number it was...
    From our friend, Delegate Lingamfelter.

    TFred

    HB 810 Assault weapon; transfer of firearm, proof of citizenship.

    Transfer of assault weapon; proof of citizenship. Makes consistent the type of identification and other documentation that a purchaser of a firearm must present when purchasing any type of firearm from a licensed dealer by removing the additional requirement for the purchase of an assault weapon that a person who purchases such a weapon must present proof of citizenship. The bill does not alter the provisions prohibiting the sale of assault firearms to noncitizens or persons who have not been lawfully admitted for permanent residence.

    Full text:
    01/12/16 House: Prefiled and ordered printed; offered 01/13/16 16100103D pdf
    03/02/16 House: Bill text as passed House and Senate (HB810ER) pdf
    04/04/16 Governor: Acts of Assembly Chapter text (CHAP0697) pdf

    Status:
    01/12/16 House: Prefiled and ordered printed; offered 01/13/16 16100103D
    01/12/16 House: Referred to Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety
    01/18/16 House: Assigned MPPS sub: #1
    01/21/16 House: Subcommittee recommends reporting (5-Y 0-N)
    01/29/16 House: Reported from Militia, Police and Public Safety (22-Y 0-N)
    02/01/16 House: Read first time
    02/02/16 House: Read second time and engrossed
    02/03/16 House: Read third time and passed House BLOCK VOTE (97-Y 0-N)
    02/03/16 House: VOTE: BLOCK VOTE PASSAGE (97-Y 0-N)
    02/04/16 Senate: Constitutional reading dispensed
    02/04/16 Senate: Referred to Committee for Courts of Justice
    02/24/16 Senate: Reported from Courts of Justice (15-Y 0-N)
    02/26/16 Senate: Constitutional reading dispensed (39-Y 0-N)
    02/29/16 Senate: Read third time
    02/29/16 Senate: Passed Senate (38-Y 0-N)
    02/29/16 Senate: Reconsideration of Senate passage agreed to by Senate (38-Y 0-N)
    02/29/16 Senate: Passed Senate (38-Y 0-N)
    03/02/16 House: Enrolled
    03/02/16 House: Bill text as passed House and Senate (HB810ER)
    03/02/16 House: Signed by Speaker
    03/05/16 Senate: Signed by President
    03/07/16 House: Enrolled Bill communicated to Governor on 3/7/2016
    03/07/16 Governor: Governor's Action Deadline Midnight, Sunday, April 10, 2016
    04/04/16 Governor: Approved by Governor-Chapter 697 (effective 7/1/16)
    04/04/16 Governor: Acts of Assembly Chapter text (CHAP0697)

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