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NC found to be gerrymandering - but they'll still use the ones for election day, huh

davidmcbeth

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utbagpiper ..I'll take a shot !

Insofar as state tax ....

Why can people "opt" out of paying state taxes in my state?

Simple: the budgets and tax laws have all been created behind closed doors in violation of our natural rights, common law rights, and FOIA laws ....

I think that the method in which laws are created also have a bearing on their legality .... so I would not find anyone guilty of violating any tax laws of the state of CT (possibly others if they can show the same defects).

With the fedz? Anyone who can demonstrate that they violated open records/meetings laws ... I would lean the same.
 

utbagpiper

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utbagpiper ..I'll take a shot !

A swing and a miss.

In what State do you reside? How do people opt out of State taxes?

And what you and I might refuse to convict for is irrelevant because demonstrably, I'm never going to be seated on a jury under current [strike]jury tampering[/strike] voir dire and jury seating procedures and laws. Two degrees in a STEM field and keeping myself reasonably well informed via multiple media sources means no lawyer worth his bar exam is going to let me anywhere near a jury box.

Charles
 

davidmcbeth

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Messages
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earth's crust
A swing and a miss.

In what State do you reside? How do people opt out of State taxes?

And what you and I might refuse to convict for is irrelevant because demonstrably, I'm never going to be seated on a jury under current [strike]jury tampering[/strike] voir dire and jury seating procedures and laws. Two degrees in a STEM field and keeping myself reasonably well informed via multiple media sources means no lawyer worth his bar exam is going to let me anywhere near a jury box.

Charles

Hell, even I gotten seated as a jurist ... I'm sure you would be a fine one too. believe me, judges don't like me as a jurist

2 ways to argue taxes, state wise here .... 1) don't pay ... process will commence 2) pay, then ask for refund ... process starts

With feds when contacted by those wonderful folks in Utah ... either
a) tell 'em to drop dead .... go to tax court wherein the opposing party is the IRS :)()
b) pay 'em, ask for a refund, wait 1/2 year (they may just ignore it), file in district court where the opposing party is not the IRS

I am in the process of asking for a refund from my state imposed taxes .... lets see how that goes.
 
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Freedom1Man

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Jan 14, 2012
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Greater Eastside Washington
Until the tax protesters are able and willing to explain their interpretations and applications in a way that can be utilized by common folks, being paid a wage or salary by an employer, I will continue to understand the amendment and various income tax laws in ways that will keep me and others out of prison.

I have repeatedly asked tax protesters to clearly and publicly explain their rationale and procedures for legally not paying federal income tax. None have been willing to personally do so, which leads me to conclude that their methods will not withstand scrutiny. Whether is because the methods are flawed, or because government will engage in "might makes right" makes no material difference.

If it works for you, great. But if you can't show me how to have it work for me, do not presume to correct me or complain about my verbiage in the absence of your willingness or ability to show others how to make it work for them.

You and I agree on much. But I have long since grown weary of those insist federal income taxes are something vastly different than commonly understood, yet refrain from offering actionable information to back up such claims.

If my information is bad, do not merely call it bad. Rather, provide good information to counter it. Good information must be more than a few excerpts from old court cases that may have since been overturned in part or in whole.

From your cite:

During the interim between the Pollock decision in 1895 and the ratification of the Sixteenth Amendment in 1913, the Court gave evidence of a greater awareness of the dangerous consequences to national solvency which that holding threatened, and partially circumvented the threat, either by taking refuge in redefinitions of "direct tax" or, and more especially, by emphasizing, virtually to the exclusion of the former, the history of excise taxation.
...
The Court conceded that taxes on incomes from "professions, trades, employments, or vocations" levied by this act were excise taxes and therefore valid. The entire statute, however, was voided on the ground that Congress never intended to permit the entire "burden of the tax to be borne by professions, trades, employments, or vocations" after real estate and personal property had been exempted, 158 U.S. at 635.
...
Under this approach the Court thus found it possible to sustain a corporate income tax as an excise "measured by income" on the privilege of doing business in corporate form.10 The adoption of the Sixteenth Amendment, however, put an end to speculation whether the Court, unaided by constitutional amendment, would persist along these lines of construction until it had reversed its holding in the Pollock case.

In other words, income was going to be taxed with or without the 16th amendment, but the amendment removed all doubt about what the SCOTUS was going to do.

Or put in yet other words, while the 16th amendment may not have conferred any new powers on congress, it limited the power of SCOTUS to remove taxing powers from congress.

Simply put, I believe the nation would be far better off if Congress did not have the power to tax incomes (or gasoline, or much anything else except imposing import duties) but instead had to apportion their budgetary needs among the States based on population, with the States then raising the monies in whatever way they saw fit. One might tax mineral extraction, another might tax income, yet another gambling.

Whether achieving this could be done simply by repealing the 16th, or whether additional limit would need to be imposed on Congressional delegated power is mostly a moot question as any properly worded amendment to repeal the 16th would do both.

Charles

Yet another proof of disinformation or ignorance.

All laws are positive laws. Laws are limited to what is listed. I am not a tax protester, as a "tax protester" is one who files a return with a letter of protest.

Why not show me liability? Why not explain away sections 83, 7701, 1461, etc etc all those sections that prove that the liability is not what most believe.

However, I have disproven your first disinformation earlier and haven't proven my contention to be incorrect. I proven that the 16th Amendment did not create a direct tax. Yet, you ignore the evidence. You have prove to be illiterate. Read the 16th Amendment again as though you're explaining it to a child who will ask you the meaning of each word. Then, using your mind do not add anything to it and accept it as written.

https://youtu.be/ZW1Pqey_pe4
Since you have the time, use it to learn. This video is there to help you into learning. Please learn to read laws and then only then can we have a true conversation on this topic. You have to only learn history, law, and how to accept laws as written.
.....

Further http://mobile.wnd.com/2007/07/42749/
The Internal Revenue Service has lost a lawyer’s challenge in front of a jury to prove a constitutional foundation for the nation’s income tax, and the victorious attorney now is setting his sights higher.

“I think now people are beginning to realize that this has got to be the largest fraud, backed up by intimidation and extortion and by the sheer force of taking peoples property and hard-earned money without any lawful authorization whatsoever,” lawyer Tom Cryer told WND just days after a jury in Louisiana acquitted him of two criminal tax counts.

And before you consign him to the legions of “tin foil hat brigades” who argue against paying taxes, and then want payment to explain how to do that, he addresses the issue up front.

“These snake oil peddlers have conned millions of dollars out of many well-intended patriots and left a trail of broken lives in their wake. … These charlatans should be avoided, not only because they will lead you to bankruptcy and prison, but because by association they discredit those who are telling the truth,” he said.

The truth, he said, is where he comes in, with the launch of a new Truth Attack website that is intended to build on his victory, and create a coalition of resources to defeat – ultimately – the income tax in the United States.
Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
 
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