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Thread: How the US Military Would Put Down an Armed Rebellion

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    How the US Military Would Put Down an Armed Rebellion

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but we were taught both initially and throughout my military career this this would be verboten.

    Specifically, the "experts" say:

    "The government would invoke the Insurrection Act of 1807 to form a response:

    From Title 10 US Code the President may use the militia or Armed Forces to:

    § 331 – Suppress an insurrection against a State government at the request of the Legislature or, if not in session, the Governor.

    § 332 – Suppress unlawful obstruction or rebellion against the U.S.

    § 333 – Suppress insurrection or domestic violence if it (1) hinders the execution of the laws to the extent that a part or class of citizens are deprived of Constitutional rights and the State is unable or refuses to protect those rights or (2) obstructs the execution of any Federal law or impedes the course of justice under Federal laws.)

    What if, commensurate with §'s 331, 332, and 333, it's not an "insurrection" but a restoration much the same as the Battle of Athens, sometimes called the McMinn County War. It was a restoration of Constitutional, state, and local law led by citizens in Athens and Etowah, Tennessee, United States, against the local and corrupt government in August 1946. The citizens, including some World War II veterans, accused the local officials of predatory policing, police brutality, political corruption and voter intimidation.

    I know very few individuals who would ever participate in an insurrection against a lawfully-elected government. I know many, however, who would respond appropriately to stop the unlawful actions of a wayward government i.e. one that was no longer acting in the lawful capacity to which they were elected.

    Comments, please.
    I no longer have any confidence in the moderation or administration of this forum. Nonetheless, the First STILL protects the Second, and the Second protects the First! Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and other founding documents. If you're going to do anything at all, do it right!

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    They don't need laws to support their actions .... they'll just act.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    once again the basic premise since9...they who win write the history of how it went down...

    not only is mcbeth correct, they will just act. some factions already have...

    long hot summer comes to mind.

    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Yeah, in such times, it's better to be part of a roving band of criminals than an organized, law-abiding group of citizens trying to uphold the constitutional amendments.

    Gubmints can act against the lawful. They can do nothing against the unlawful.

    Ironic, huh?

    In Brazil, they just don't send officers into the slums. Too dangerous.

    Here if someone acted up, they'd just seize bank accounts, cut pensions, maybe even tactically (accidentally?) bomb a city. All law-abiding guys would say 'oh-kaay, here's my pew-pews', and turn to using baseball bats, if they're even allowed to defend themselves (in Britain, you're really not allowed to defend yourself).

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Yeah, in such times, it's better to be part of a roving band of criminals than an organized, law-abiding group of citizens trying to uphold the constitutional amendments.

    Gubmints can act against the lawful. They can do nothing against the unlawful.

    Ironic, huh?

    In Brazil, they just don't send officers into the slums. Too dangerous.

    Here if someone acted up, they'd just seize bank accounts, cut pensions, maybe even tactically (accidentally?) bomb a city. All law-abiding guys would say 'oh-kaay, here's my pew-pews', and turn to using baseball bats, if they're even allowed to defend themselves (in Britain, you're really not allowed to defend yourself).
    no maybe...authorities dropping a bomb on the city has already been done and it wasn't an accident...

    quote: Her West Philadelphia neighborhood — now nearly vacant and eerily quiet — never recovered from the city’s horrific botched attempt to arrest the MOVE members on May 13, 1985. The violent confrontation marked the first time authorities in the United States had dropped a bomb on American citizens. ... killing five children and six adult members of the militant group MOVE and incinerating 61 row homes. unquote
    http://newsone.com/516432/philly-nei...w-up-61-homes/

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 08-13-2016 at 07:35 AM.
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    no maybe...authorities dropping a bomb on the city has already been done and it wasn't an accident...

    quote: Her West Philadelphia neighborhood — now nearly vacant and eerily quiet — never recovered from the city’s horrific botched attempt to arrest the MOVE members on May 13, 1985. The violent confrontation marked the first time authorities in the United States had dropped a bomb on American citizens. ... killing five children and six adult members of the militant group MOVE and incinerating 61 row homes. unquote
    http://newsone.com/516432/philly-nei...w-up-61-homes/

    ipse
    Well, while true, they've dropped other bombs. Fortunately they hadn't/haven't exploded yet.
    http://mentalfloss.com/article/17483...ns-us-has-lost

    o Somewhere near Goldsboro, North Carolina 1961;
    o The United States lost a warhead off of Tybee Island, Georgia, in 1958;
    o Somewhere in the Pacific enroute from Alaska to Texas, 1950 - near or far from the coast is unknown;
    o Somewhere off McDill AFB in Florida, 1956.

    After that and the incident in Japan (`65)(*), basically they stopped reporting those types of incidents openly.

    Source: Wikipedia
    Broken Arrow refers to an accidental event that involves nuclear weapons, warheads or components, but which does not create the risk of nuclear war... As of September 2013, the US Department of Defense has officially recognized 32 "Broken Arrow" incidents
    (*) It took them 15 years to admit it and then they lied and said it was 500 miles off the coast. It was ~80 miles off the coast of the Ryuku Island chain.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Insurrection against a local government would never happen the way it's portrayed. It would be accomplished by stealth and surreptitious acts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Well, while true, they've dropped other bombs. Fortunately they hadn't/haven't exploded yet.
    http://mentalfloss.com/article/17483...ns-us-has-lost

    o Somewhere near Goldsboro, North Carolina 1961;
    o The United States lost a warhead off of Tybee Island, Georgia, in 1958;
    o Somewhere in the Pacific enroute from Alaska to Texas, 1950 - near or far from the coast is unknown;
    o Somewhere off McDill AFB in Florida, 1956.

    After that and the incident in Japan (`65)(*), basically they stopped reporting those types of incidents openly.

    Source: Wikipedia


    (*) It took them 15 years to admit it and then they lied and said it was 500 miles off the coast. It was ~80 miles off the coast of the Ryuku Island chain.
    In the Philly bombing they missed their target and it detonated on a neighboring bldg. ... but its Philly ....

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    Regular Member cjohnson44546's Avatar
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    a coup has already started and is still in motion.. they just fight with politics and call themselves Democrats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjohnson44546 View Post
    a coup has already started and is still in motion.. they just fight with politics and call themselves Democrats.
    Er, rather they are called "Progressives"!--- Why let all those RINO's not be included?

    You don't need to know what kind of device or tool was used to send this
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjohnson44546 View Post
    a coup has already started and is still in motion.. they just fight with politics and call themselves Democrats.
    haha yea. long live republicans- they will save the day..




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    A mayor orders his top cop to confiscate all guns, go house to house, to maintain law and order, to maintain the peace, until the current crisis has passed.

    How many of the local cops will comply with this order? How many county/state cops will assist. Imagine, your neighbor is one of those cops.

    Look to post hurricane Katrina governmental acts to find the answer.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    A mayor orders his top cop to confiscate all guns, go house to house, to maintain law and order, to maintain the peace, until the current crisis has passed.

    How many of the local cops will comply with this order? How many county/state cops will assist. Imagine, your neighbor is one of those cops.

    Look to post hurricane Katrina governmental acts to find the answer.
    Cops will conveniently forget they signed an oath of office.

    Lawful order comes to mind.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I am reminded of the ole saw...your gun, or food on my table. The cop will choose feeding his kids over your gun. Hey, ya might get a receipt for your gun...to be used to re-claim your gun after the current crisis has passed.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    past nc governor, bev purde, had that concept handed to her by the nc SCourt when she declared a statewide state of emergency over impending snow which by statute prohibiting carrying firearm, lg & handguns.

    Second Amendment sued...oh wait ncgr was included after their me to, me to, me to mantra, and won and within a couple weeks the no firearm provision quietly fell out of the state of emergency statutes.

    but a question arises, if national is mobilized...do they, without formal blet 101, now have arrest, ad nauseam powers, especially since their mantra is defend the constitution which is lacking in our le's oath.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 08-15-2016 at 09:27 AM.
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    once again the basic premise since9...they who win write the history of how it went down...
    That meme existed prior to the Internet. With every individual capable of starting a blog, it no longer exists.
    I no longer have any confidence in the moderation or administration of this forum. Nonetheless, the First STILL protects the Second, and the Second protects the First! Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and other founding documents. If you're going to do anything at all, do it right!

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    That meme existed prior to the Internet. With every individual capable of starting a blog, it no longer exists.
    it doesn't ?

    Putin and the Ukraine

    Erdoğan and his mythical coup

    he who won wrote the history!!!

    no internet involved!

    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I am reminded of the ole saw...your gun, or food on my table. The cop will choose feeding his kids over your gun. Hey, ya might get a receipt for your gun...to be used to re-claim your gun after the current crisis has passed.
    Ya just might get a receipt ... those people in New Orleans did not and most did not get their guns back....even after a "favorable" court decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    it doesn't ?
    No, it doesn't. The items on your list are prime examples, prima facia evidence that your claim of "they who win write the history of how it went down" is no longer valid. Each and every one of these has been written about endlessly from all sides, not merely the side of the winners:

    Putin and the Ukraine

    Erdoğan and his mythical coup
    Exactly. The Internet doesn't provide objectivity. Rather, it provides hyper-perspective. For example, one can read about Putin and the Ukraine from many different perspectives, conducting additional research to determine what's fact and what's hogwash, while making up one's own damned mind while utterly rejecting, with reason, the perspective of the winner (or faction in power) as reflected in mainstream media.

    he who won wrote the history!!!
    Not any more, and continuing to claim this new falsehood as truth does not make it true. Neither do triple exclamation points.

    no internet involved!
    Of course the Internet's involved. That's the point, solus.

    In fact, "A majority of U.S. adults – 62% – get news on social media, and 18% do so often, according to a new survey by Pew Research Center, conducted in association with the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation. In 2012, based on a slightly different question, 49% of U.S. adults reported seeing news on social media." (Gottfied, J. and Shearer, E. (May 26, 2016). "News Use Across Social Media Platforms 2016." Journalism & Media, PewResearch Center. Retrieved from: http://www.journalism.org/2016/05/26...latforms-2016/. Link.

    Yes, one can find every opinion under the Sun on the Internet. But one also finds opinions ranging from heavily slanted to outright lies on mainstream media. The difference is that when someone listens to mainstream media, they rarely double-check (vet) the claims, whereas when I see a claim on the Internet, I check it with multiple sources of proven reliability, such as the Pew Research Center, the reference for the preceding quote.

    The same can be said for the Internet as for mainstream media: Trust nothing; vet everything.
    I no longer have any confidence in the moderation or administration of this forum. Nonetheless, the First STILL protects the Second, and the Second protects the First! Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and other founding documents. If you're going to do anything at all, do it right!

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Ya just might get a receipt ... those people in New Orleans did not and most did not get their guns back....even after a "favorable" court decision.
    That's not what the NRA-ILA says. They were the ones who secured that favorable court decision: "The city dragged its feet in returning confiscated firearms to their lawful owners. However, NRA persisted until 2008, when NRA and New Orleans came to a settlement in which the city agreed to carry out an acceptable procedure for returning the firearms. The agreement allowed owners to get back their guns without documented proof of ownership, which many residents were understandably unable to provide."

    Link.

    Do you have any objective evidence that supports your claim that "most did not get their guns back?"
    Last edited by since9; 08-19-2016 at 06:00 PM.
    I no longer have any confidence in the moderation or administration of this forum. Nonetheless, the First STILL protects the Second, and the Second protects the First! Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and other founding documents. If you're going to do anything at all, do it right!

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    please since9, go blame ted turner instead of the internet who started the craze not facilitated it...

    history lesson 101...who is in the history books right now for:

    the six day war? Israel ask them!!

    the gulf war? certainly wasn't the US with this costly war!!

    the Russian invasion of Afghanistan...tail between their legs after 10 years

    the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, Southeast Asia, Iraq..certainly hasn't be the U.S.

    Erdoğan, as Turkish history is being written is the clear winner of the coup as he marches his plan to turn the country of Türkiye from a modern democracy to another Islamic state like Iran.

    news break from the crap started by turner which is facilitated by the internet, quote: EXCLUSIVE/ Two independent sources told EurActiv.com that the US has started transferring nuclear weapons stationed in Turkey to Romania, against the background of worsening relations between Washington and Ankara. unquote. http://www.euractiv.com/section/glob...ey-to-romania/

    sorry, those who won wrote history.

    have you looked at history's recording of the fall of the Berlin Wall? not David Hasselhoff, not the U.S, not the Soviets, not the Europeans...GDR is given credit for the fall of the Berliner Mauer

    and they do not, as a governmental entity exist!

    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    No, it doesn't. The items on your list are prime examples, prima facia evidence that your claim of "they who win write the history of how it went down" is no longer valid. Each and every one of these has been written about endlessly from all sides, not merely the side of the winners:



    Exactly. The Internet doesn't provide objectivity. Rather, it provides hyper-perspective. For example, one can read about Putin and the Ukraine from many different perspectives, conducting additional research to determine what's fact and what's hogwash, while making up one's own damned mind while utterly rejecting, with reason, the perspective of the winner (or faction in power) as reflected in mainstream media.



    Not any more, and continuing to claim this new falsehood as truth does not make it true. Neither do triple exclamation points.



    Of course the Internet's involved. That's the point, solus.

    In fact, "A majority of U.S. adults – 62% – get news on social media, and 18% do so often, according to a new survey by Pew Research Center, conducted in association with the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation. In 2012, based on a slightly different question, 49% of U.S. adults reported seeing news on social media." (Gottfied, J. and Shearer, E. (May 26, 2016). "News Use Across Social Media Platforms 2016." Journalism & Media, PewResearch Center. Retrieved from: http://www.journalism.org/2016/05/26...latforms-2016/. Link.

    Yes, one can find every opinion under the Sun on the Internet. But one also finds opinions ranging from heavily slanted to outright lies on mainstream media. The difference is that when someone listens to mainstream media, they rarely double-check (vet) the claims, whereas when I see a claim on the Internet, I check it with multiple sources of proven reliability, such as the Pew Research Center, the reference for the preceding quote.

    The same can be said for the Internet as for mainstream media: Trust nothing; vet everything.
    internet is being handed over to ICANN, multi national company, internet not likely to provide outside input that is easy to find without going under/subnet. expect very censored material in the future.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    sorry, those who won wrote history
    Key word here is "won" as in "paste tense."

    Not any more.

    Have you looked at history's recording of the fall of the Berlin Wall?
    Thanks for proving my point by citing a perfect example that occurred prior to any appreciable use of the Internet.

    I rest my case.
    I no longer have any confidence in the moderation or administration of this forum. Nonetheless, the First STILL protects the Second, and the Second protects the First! Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and other founding documents. If you're going to do anything at all, do it right!

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Key word here is "won" as in "paste tense."

    Not any more.



    Thanks for proving my point by citing a perfect example that occurred prior to any appreciable use of the Internet.

    I rest my case.
    ok, whatever the devil those comments mean...if your mind perceives this as acceptable...you're right...

    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    That's not what the NRA-ILA says. They were the ones who secured that favorable court decision: "The city dragged its feet in returning confiscated firearms to their lawful owners. However, NRA persisted until 2008, when NRA and New Orleans came to a settlement in which the city agreed to carry out an acceptable procedure for returning the firearms. The agreement allowed owners to get back their guns without documented proof of ownership, which many residents were understandably unable to provide."

    Link.

    Do you have any objective evidence that supports your claim that "most did not get their guns back?"
    From the NRA article:
    August 29th marks the 10-year anniversary of when Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, La. The memory of the devastation wrought by the storm and the resulting chaos is a human tragedy of such a vast scale that it endures to this day; and will well beyond. Further, the measures taken to disarm law-abiding firearm owners in Katrina’s wake should serve as a testament to why gun owners guard our right to bear arms so vigilantly.
    "[W]hy gun owners guard our right to bear arms so vigilantly" - What? Vigilantly? Are they serious? Those owners didn't put up a fight. I didn't hear about blood running in the streets, or I should say the waters running red. Not one word about my cold dead hands.

    Ill say it again, 99% of gun owners will turnover their guns when ordered to do so. And without a fight.

    I'm just say'n......

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