Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: can police enforce lawful actions unlawfully?

  1. #1
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,169

    can police enforce lawful actions unlawfully?

    can someone give me a ELI5 on this please?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1oi...ature=youtu.be
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

    it's time to tap in to a higher reality; the one you were made for.

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Once you explain what you are talking about, maybe.

  3. #3
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,169
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Once you explain what you are talking about, maybe.
    if there's no law, then can an officer make a lawful order? like in the video- there's no law for him to enforce, so he has to make one up.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

    it's time to tap in to a higher reality; the one you were made for.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,155
    I was threatened with "disobeying a lawful order," so I searched for just what is a lawful/unlawful order in my state. In a word, unless there is a statute addressing the order/circumstances, any order by a cop is lawful.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  5. #5
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,880
    the national news this evening showed the CA forest service head hocho stating...if we tell you to evacuate YOU will!

    wondered about the legality of the statement then, but now in light of nightmare's statement...

    hummmm!

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,155
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    the national news this evening showed the CA forest service head hocho stating...if we tell you to evacuate YOU will!

    wondered about the legality of the statement then, but now in light of nightmare's statement...

    hummmm!

    ipse
    In the DISQUS forum discussion on the topic, I related that I was "in the Sixties a Northern California County Fire Control Technician, and we had no problems documenting the order and the offer of assistance and then walking away, looking for someone that would accept our offer."

    I was paid by the County Health Department as a medical technician entomologist and I mostly smeared feces looking for worms, larvae, and eggs. It's a long way from that to a nuclear engineer qualified to direct strategic asset power plant testing operations.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  7. #7
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    In the DISQUS forum discussion on the topic, I related that I was "in the Sixties a Northern California County Fire Control Technician, and we had no problems documenting the order and the offer of assistance and then walking away, looking for someone that would accept our offer."

    I was paid by the County Health Department as a medical technician entomologist and I mostly smeared feces looking for worms, larvae, and eggs. It's a long way from that to a nuclear engineer qualified to direct strategic asset power plant testing operations.
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    the national news this evening showed the CA forest service head hocho stating...if we tell you to evacuate YOU will!

    wondered about the legality of the statement then, but now in light of nightmare's statement...

    hummmm!

    ipse
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I was threatened with "disobeying a lawful order," so I searched for just what is a lawful/unlawful order in my state. In a word, unless there is a statute addressing the order/circumstances, any order by a cop is lawful.


    are you guys mocking me?
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

    it's time to tap in to a higher reality; the one you were made for.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,155
    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    are you guys mocking me?
    Are you a snowflake, hypersensitive to offense?

    True, I did not and will not watch a blind video link, that's why I did not link my comment to your OP.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  9. #9
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,880
    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    are you guys mocking me?
    please be assured, you would know if i were mocking you...

    mine was a legitimate commentary regarding the lawfulness of the Forest Service's televised order...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,155
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    please be assured, you would know if i were mocking you...mine was a legitimate commentary regarding the lawfulness of the Forest Service's televised order...ipse
    Yeah, but it may not have been an ELI5 on the U-boob-tube video.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    the national news this evening showed the CA forest service head hocho stating...if we tell you to evacuate YOU will!

    wondered about the legality of the statement then, but now in light of nightmare's statement...

    hummmm!

    ipse
    Cops would claim their "q-munity" caretaking powers and arrest those who "dis da man."
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    if there's no law, then can an officer make a lawful order? like in the video- there's no law for him to enforce, so he has to make one up.
    Well, I have been told that I've made up laws...like our RKBA, freedom of speech, etc..I still go by what I see as the law.

    ? you need to research is this: when the guy does so, is he acting within the scope of his employment?

    Different states have different rules. I can only tell you relating to two : in Illinois: yes in Utah: likely not.

    I do not see your query as limited to just one state....

    Outside scope of employment, unquestionably outside of any immunity. Inside scope of employment...gets more complicated.

    Your post is a good one....but you need to be more specific and try to do some research before posting. All the responses could be from people who just finished off a case of PRB for all you know..so don't take anything as gospel.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 08-18-2016 at 03:30 PM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,169
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well, I have been told that I've made up laws...like our RKBA, freedom of speech, etc..I still go by what I see as the law.

    ? you need to research is this: when the guy does so, is he acting within the scope of his employment?

    Different states have different rules. I can only tell you relating to two : in Illinois: yes in Utah: likely not.

    I do not see your query as limited to just one state....

    Outside scope of employment, unquestionably outside of any immunity. Inside scope of employment...gets more complicated.

    Your post is a good one....but you need to be more specific and try to do some research before posting. All the responses could be from people who just finished off a case of PRB for all you know..so don't take anything as gospel.
    yeah i know and i don't. but i left it as vague as possible so as not to sway anyone's response. i tried researching, but couldn't find anything either way, which is why i eventually came here to post the question.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

    it's time to tap in to a higher reality; the one you were made for.

  14. #14
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Are you a snowflake, hypersensitive to offense?

    True, I did not and will not watch a blind video link, that's why I did not link my comment to your OP.
    yes.


    and you should watch the video. it's a group of about 5-6 guys protesting peacefully outside the UN in NYC. they are told that according to a federal court order, they couldn't be there. the guy asks to see the court order, and the cop doesn't have it with him.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

    it's time to tap in to a higher reality; the one you were made for.

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    yes.


    and you should watch the video. it's a group of about 5-6 guys protesting peacefully outside the UN in NYC. they are told that according to a federal court order, they couldn't be there. the guy asks to see the court order, and the cop doesn't have it with him.
    FYI ... you can place people on an "ignore list" ....

  16. #16
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,169
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    FYI ... you can place people on an "ignore list" ....
    i'm an adult and i'm okay with people having their own opinions that may be different than mine. i actually find it beneficial to see other sides of the story- it helps increase my knowledge.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

    it's time to tap in to a higher reality; the one you were made for.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,155
    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    yes. and you should watch the video. it's a group of about 5-6 guys protesting peacefully outside the UN in NYC. they are told that according to a federal court order, they couldn't be there. the guy asks to see the court order, and the cop doesn't have it with him.
    How prescient was I. I am not interested. I am not likely to be interested in anything on video, or in any explanatory narrative.

    You must understand and appreciate the Narrative Fallacy. In text and dialogue each point presented in a well constructed sentence can be examined before going on to the next - or not. The narrative is the witch doctor's tool requiring suspension of skepticism and disbelief to get to the punch line. There is so much to read and so little time.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  18. #18
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    How prescient was I. I am not interested. I am not likely to be interested in anything on video, or in any explanatory narrative.

    You must understand and appreciate the Narrative Fallacy. In text and dialogue each point presented in a well constructed sentence can be examined before going on to the next - or not. The narrative is the witch doctor's tool requiring suspension of skepticism and disbelief to get to the punch line. There is so much to read and so little time.
    says the guy with 10,338 posts on an internet forum.

    cool.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

    it's time to tap in to a higher reality; the one you were made for.

  19. #19
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I was threatened with "disobeying a lawful order," so I searched for just what is a lawful/unlawful order in my state. In a word, unless there is a statute addressing the order/circumstances, any order by a cop is lawful.
    don't you mean unlawful?

    laws don't make things legal, they make things illegal. or is that different in other states?
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

    it's time to tap in to a higher reality; the one you were made for.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •