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Thread: History help

  1. #1
    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    History help

    Hello, I'm researching California unloaded open carry for a book on OC that I'm writing. Since the forum only goes back so far, I want to pick people's knowledge about the early early days.

    What or who led to the momentum for open carry to become a thing as it seemed to blow up around 2008?

    What were the stated goals?

    I'm kinda a little slow this evening, but hoping someone with a great memory out there can school me on the early history.

    Thanks!
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  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    This may be of some help to you.

    A Timeline of California Firearms Laws
    http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/LegalCaliforniaTimeline
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    OP needs to examine bills and laws passed and look at the underlining work at the legislature. Looking at testimony given, meeting transcripts/audio records created at public meetings, documents provided to the legislature etc.

    The wiki link that Grape provided likely will get you started .. but its only the tip of an iceberg.

    Looking at laws made is only 1/100th of it ... looking at bills that failed and why (pro or con to OCing) will provide a much better historical background than just looking at laws that passed.

    Of course, you may also wish to examine local proposed law and passed law too.

    Looking to write a book, not a paper, right?

    Getting access to the records may take some time and $$$ but if you want to do it right, its what is required.

  4. #4
    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    I have the legislative stuff down, but I'm looking for more person anecdotes and information on who was involved in the meets, etc.
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  5. #5
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    I have the legislative stuff down, but I'm looking for more person anecdotes and information on who was involved in the meets, etc.
    Searching the California sub-forum, particularly page 50 and beyond will give you lots of fodder. Jus' saying.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  6. #6
    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Searching the California sub-forum, particularly page 50 and beyond will give you lots of fodder. Jus' saying.
    I've been doing pretty good, but 2008 is as far back as I can go. After this, I'm digging into Virginia and the real beginning of the story. I'm gathering that OCDO started the interest, momentum gained, and Heller accelerated interest. That's the angle I'm working with.
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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    By the way, is anyone aware of anyone being issued an open carry permit by a rural sheriff or a sheriff that has ever issued one? The answer's I'm getting from some of the cop shops aren't exactly helpful.
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  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    I've been doing pretty good, but 2008 is as far back as I can go. After this, I'm digging into Virginia and the real beginning of the story. I'm gathering that OCDO started the interest, momentum gained, and Heller accelerated interest. That's the angle I'm working with.
    IMO - much of the ban/limiting of open carry in California was in response to the Black Panthers - starting in 1967. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act


    John and Mike did come together and really moved the ball down field.

    You might get one or both to make a quote for your book. John particularly could provide you with reams of material......but he is very busy.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 08-27-2016 at 05:51 AM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    IMO - much of the ban/limiting of open carry in California was in response to the Black Panthers - starting in 1967. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act


    John and Mike did come together and really moved the ball down field.

    You might get one or both to make a quote for your book. John particularly could provide you with reams of material......but he is very busy.
    Well, blacks in general ... the Panthers had Reagan running for his pen.

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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Mulford Act

    Disregard
    Last edited by garand_guy; 08-27-2016 at 03:58 PM.
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  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    --snipped--
    Waaay too long - a wall of text.

    Would have been far better to provide a short synopsis and a link.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Waaay too long - a wall of text.

    Would have been far better to provide a short synopsis and a link.
    and not one cite on where the wall's information came from...amazing...(shaking my head in disbelief)

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wowwie!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    Hello, I'm researching California unloaded open carry for a book on OC that I'm writing. Since the forum only goes back so far, I want to pick people's knowledge about the early early days.

    What or who led to the momentum for open carry to become a thing as it seemed to blow up around 2008?

    What were the stated goals?

    I'm kinda a little slow this evening, but hoping someone with a great memory out there can school me on the early history.

    Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    While California is well-known as being extremely hostile to gun rights, few have any idea of the way things used to be, including that until 1967,

    --snipped by Moderator--
    That was fast!
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 08-27-2016 at 03:32 PM. Reason: Wall of text prviously posted - no need to quote in entirety
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  14. #14
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    It was really nice to have that wall of text reproduced to make a second wall of text. Sort of like a wall of text, squared. Thanks for sharing such a long, torturous read. I didn't have anything else planned for this afternoon anyway. Maybe I can put it up a third time! Would everybody enjoy seeing it again, in a different post?
    Go ahead,,, I enjoyed the historical read, I think it was comprehensive and accurate.
    I was even entertained!
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 08-27-2016 at 03:35 PM.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  15. #15
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Three (3) strikes = an out.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #16
    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    and not one cite on where the wall's information came from...amazing...(shaking my head in disbelief)

    ipse
    I wrote it myself...writing a book you know.
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  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    I wrote it myself...writing a book you know.
    I guessed right - wish I had said so.

    Please do not post the entire book on OCDO, especially w/o paragraph breaks.

    Just kidding - the file would be too big anyway.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I guessed right - wish I had said so.

    Please do not post the entire book on OCDO, especially w/o paragraph breaks.

    Just kidding - the file would be too big anyway.
    Yeah, PHP isn't really conducive to text. I hate how it eats my formatting. Probably throw a link to hidden PDFs when I get ready to go live with it. Funny thing about the internet is that it's easy to get information and quotes from the past, but only so far because of technological limitations.
    Nevada Carry and Frontier Carry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I guessed right - wish I had said so.

    Please do not post the entire book on OCDO, especially w/o paragraph breaks.

    Just kidding - the file would be too big anyway.
    I wrote a book ... "Gun Laws That Have The Actual Effect of Law" ... can I post that one here?

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I wrote a book ... "Gun Laws That Have The Actual Effect of Law" ... can I post that one here?
    Note withstanding your erronious opinion, such a tome would be much too extensive.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  21. #21
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    I wrote it myself...writing a book you know.
    ah, a creative non-fiction work where writer(s) supposedly take historical fact and embellish (won't state fabricate) and bend the remembrance of the events to their personal style based on their talent.

    ok, i understand...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    ah, a creative non-fiction work where writer(s) supposedly take historical fact and embellish (won't state fabricate) and bend the remembrance of the events to their personal style based on their talent.

    ok, i understand...

    ipse
    U are free to write your own book .... maybe on balloons?

  23. #23
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    U are free to write your own book .... maybe on balloons?
    i suppose balloons are a better medium then the legal paper you proportly use?

    eh...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  24. #24
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I wrote a book ... "Gun Laws That Have The Actual Effect of Law" ... can I post that one here?
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Note withstanding your erronious opinion, such a tome would be much too extensive.
    Go ahead and post it David.
    I will bet its no more than a couple of sentences long,,, and I would agree with you!!!
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 08-28-2016 at 12:19 AM.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  25. #25
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    By the way, is anyone aware of anyone being issued an open carry permit by a rural sheriff or a sheriff that has ever issued one? The answer's I'm getting from some of the cop shops aren't exactly helpful.
    Guess i am kinda slow on this one....

    I predicted a few years back that the dominos in California were gonna start to fall, because
    their were reports of Sheriffs in rural counties that were issuing carry permits to Regular folks!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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