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Thread: VCDL files lawsuit against Katie Couric

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    Regular Member SAvage410's Avatar
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    VCDL files lawsuit against Katie Couric


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Katie has loosed a tiger filled with a terrible resolve.

    One could almost pity her ignorance of having not learned of our history.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Made it to Drudge

    The lawsuit is a Drudge 2016 story for 13 Sept 16.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Quote Originally Posted by SAvage410 View Post
    Everyone understands $$$$ .... seems like a decent lawsuit.

    If I provide funds, what % of the final judgment would I get ?

    Some have kickstarter or other web-money raising sites for lawsuits that offer a % of the "winnings".

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Everyone understands $$$$ .... seems like a decent lawsuit.

    If I provide funds, what % of the final judgment would I get ?

    Some have kickstarter or other web-money raising sites for lawsuits that offer a % of the "winnings".
    Zero. VCDL is doing this to promote the interests of people who believe in the right to defend one's self, his home, and his family. If you choose to donate, it'll be for the same purpose. I believe that donations to VCDL are tax deductible, but I'm not certain of that. People never seem to get that litigation is a way of cutting one's losses, it's not a ticket to big money profits. It's a lot of work and a real pain to do it.

    http://clarelocke.com/our-cases/katie-couric/
    Last edited by user; 09-13-2016 at 09:23 PM.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Zero. VCDL is doing this to promote the interests of people who believe in the right to defend one's self, his home, and his family. If you choose to donate, it'll be for the same purpose. I believe that donations to VCDL are tax deductible, but I'm not certain of that. People never seem to get that litigation is a way of cutting one's losses, it's not a ticket to big money profits. It's a lot of work and a real pain to do it.

    http://clarelocke.com/our-cases/katie-couric/
    Asking for over 12 million (looks like the punitive and compensatory damages are mixed up though)....so it seems to be about $$$...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Asking for over 12 million (looks like the punitive and compensatory damages are mixed up though)....so it seems to be about $$$...
    While your conclusion is understandable, it is my personal testimony that I have met the President of VCDL. It is definitely not about money.

    In late 2006, as a total newbie, I called a phone number one evening. It turned out to be Philip Van Cleave, the president of VCDL. The daggone president spent at least twenty minutes on the phone with me promoting to me. Now, please understand, at that time a membership was worth $15. So, Philip promoted this aspect of VCDL and that aspect of VCDL and other aspects of VCDL. The president of the organization spent all that time and breath on a total new guy who he had no idea whether the new guy would spend a whole $15 on a membership. Philip didn't pawn me off with, "You need to call our membership director who can explain all the great benefits you receive for your membership fee." The took a random call in the middle of his evening, dropped all his plans, and talked to total new caller who he had no idea would make the $15 investment or not. It ain't about the money.

    A few years later, feeling grateful for the work he is doing, I offered to cover Philip's dinner. You see, after a general meeting of the membership--to which he has to drive to various locations across the state--a bunch of the guys will leave after the meeting for fellowship at a local restaurant. Well, one of those times, I was kinda recognizing all the work Philip was doing personally, so I offered to buy his meal at the restaurant as a way to contribute something back to the guy. He declined my offer. I had to sell him on the idea that it was the least I could do for him personally, given all the time and effort he had put into protecting my right to self-defense.

    No, it is definitely not about the money.
    Last edited by Citizen; 09-13-2016 at 10:31 PM.
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    The lawsuit is all about $$$ .. because that's all these people understand. make it unprofitable for the antis to do what they do and the end goal will be reached.

    Hey, if they win the 12 mil .. I'll take it off their hands for them...if they don't want to be burdened of course.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-13-2016 at 10:52 PM.

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    User, et al.

    Go get em!
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    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
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    Regular Member HeroHog's Avatar
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    As one who spent many hours working a gun show table for the VCDL, being present and standing up for the VCDL at events, testifying before the state during Lobby Days with the VCDL and having met and befriended many of the VCDL "brass" and spent time with Philip, I can tell you that they do what they do for The People. I certainly never got nor asked for a dime and I got a LOT for my dues.

    Why is the amount so high? Because lawsuits are EXPENSIVE, especially against a media monster like this. Not only that but suing "for satisfaction" will not teach her/them a lesson that MUST be taught! It has to hurt their pocket and their public image! While I can't speak for the VCDL I expect that, once expenses are covered, they would likely use the funds to help the people of VA regain the rights they have lost and to help those unjustly prosecuted and persecuted like the guy who was in his car, minding his own business, simply relocated his gun between his seat/hip and glovebox, was seen by a school bus driver who imagined they were having some issue and called the cops on him much later for "brandishing" and THE CHARGES STUCK! (there's a ton more details and I'm sure I didn't tell it all 100% right but I was REAL close. I would offer a link but it is on another forum. The guy IS innocent.) The rest would likely go to promoting gun rights and supporting the VCDL's projects and events (materials, permits, etc.). Someone in the VCDL who has stroke can give ya "real" answers, these are just my thoughts from my time with them.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroHog View Post
    --snipped--I would offer a link but it is on another forum. The guy IS innocent.) The rest would likely go to promoting gun rights and supporting the VCDL's projects and events (materials, permits, etc.). Someone in the VCDL who has stroke can give ya "real" answers, these are just my thoughts from my time with them.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?113853-The-Tale-of-Henrico-Chapter-2-in-a-Ferry-Tale-Arrested-for-following-the-law
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 09-14-2016 at 12:08 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroHog View Post
    <snip>
    Why is the amount so high? Because lawsuits are EXPENSIVE, .....
    Lawsuits don't have to be expensive ... facts are facts and the law is the law ... the facts in this case are already known (and in discovery I don't think you'll find a memo saying "lets make these people look like idiots" ~ any such records would be destroyed) and the law is still the law.

    So you'll have discovery, some depositions (not really that expensive), etc. Discovery in federal court is not the kangaroo crap that occurs in state court.

    How much $$$ do you think that this lawsuit will take?

    And is the law firm doing this on contingency?
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-14-2016 at 12:12 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    ..........is the law firm doing this on contingency?
    The law firm is Dan Hawes, a VCDL Executive Member.
    http://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member HeroHog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Lawsuits don't have to be expensive ... facts are facts and the law is the law ... the facts in this case are already known (and in discovery I don't think you'll find a memo saying "lets make these people look like idiots" ~ any such records would be destroyed) and the law is still the law.

    So you'll have discovery, some depositions (not really that expensive), etc. Discovery in federal court is not the kangaroo crap that occurs in state court.

    How much $$$ do you think that this lawsuit will take?

    And is the law firm doing this on contingency?
    Generally, they are quite expensive as most have to hire a lawyer. Want to win? Hire a GOOD lawyer, they are NOT cheap. Do it yourself? “He who represents himself has a fool for a client” is a well worn quote for a very good reason. Going up against a team of expensive lawyers, ya better bring some big guns or have some really good ammo AND a really good lawyer. We have seen people who we know were/are guilty get off Scott free on more evidence; ever hear of O.J.? The Clintons?!?!
    Last edited by HeroHog; 09-14-2016 at 12:53 PM.
    Speedy: LOCAL League Sec/Treasurer, Information Officer
    AKA: Hero Hog, Dr. Speed, "The Brass Mangler" and "That fat, old, balding, Grey-bearded gimpy guy"

    I don't have NEAR enough ammo on hand. `nuff said.

    NRA Life Member, LSA, USN-DAV

    "Stay safe..." - Paul "Skidmark" Henick, RIP

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroHog View Post
    ...suing "for satisfaction" will not teach her/them a lesson that MUST be taught! It has to hurt their pocket and their public image! ...
    This.

    That said, I know nothing about the costs of a lawsuit nor if donations are warranted. That's a separate issue.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The law firm is Dan Hawes, a VCDL Executive Member.
    http://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    I see another law firm involved, Clare Locke LLP.

    3 plaintiffs: VCDL, Mr. Hawes, Ms. Webb


    I don't see that the case involves defamation per se .... as claimed in para. 113 of the complaint for VCDL....VCDL is a political group, likely the threshold for defamation per se is much higher than what can be shown.

    And para. 115 as well in respect to Webb is even more a stretch (that being a FFL automatically means that the dealer supports the right of people to buy guns).

    And para. 117 in respect to Hawes ... defamation per se....incompetence/reputation

    Para. 140 actually notes actual $$ damages associated with Webb .... although no specific # is given, I assume that this will be provided later ... if this will survive a motion to strike will be up to the court...I would have included some actual $$ amt in the complaint, saying at least $30,000 in lost sales or something to that effect (comparing 2 sales' time periods -- before and after the piece was published).

    Para. 141 actually claims loss of reputation to Hawes ... seemingly in a conclusionary way w/o citing any facts that his reputation was damaged....so I think his only way of getting $$ is through defamation per se, damage to reputation argument.


    Reading the complaint my prediction:... VCDL will get nothing ; Hawes may get something ; and Webb will get something. Only Webb will be able to prove actual damages in all likelihood.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    IANAL, but it seems to me they went beyond merely defaming, but deceptive editing and their own words to publicly embarrass them. Like I said somewhere else, the punitive damages should be greater than the actual damages.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neplusultra View Post
    IANAL, but it seems to me they went beyond merely defaming, but deceptive editing and their own words to publicly embarrass them. Like I said somewhere else, the punitive damages should be greater than the actual damages.
    Agreed, on both counts.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neplusultra View Post
    IANAL, but it seems to me they went beyond merely defaming, but deceptive editing and their own words to publicly embarrass them. Like I said somewhere else, the punitive damages should be greater than the actual damages.
    Seems like a typo, right?

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