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Thread: Manasses 7 - Toney's Pizza

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Manasses 7 - Toney's Pizza

    8 1/2 years later we are still fighting similar battles = LEAs who will not control their agents and LEOs who will take advantage to advance a personal agenda.

    http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/va...?RECID=1230082

    http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-263296.html

    https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.h...&f=24&t=259058
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHY14OVk7r0


    Make it clear to them that you are not happy with them and remind them that they are dealing with an armed citizenry.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-18-2016 at 01:49 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    8 1/2 years later we are still fighting similar battles = LEAs who will not control their agents and LEOs who will take advantage to advance a personal agenda.

    http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/va...?RECID=1230082

    http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-263296.html

    https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.h...&f=24&t=259058
    And what are the similar battles you are fighting?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    And what are the similar battles you are fighting?
    Show me your identification, brandishing, governor McAwful, and a laundry list of others.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Show me your identification, brandishing, governor McAwful, and a laundry list of others.
    Your state is blue. My state is suppose to be red. And I hope it stays red. Is there a chance your state turns red?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    SNIP 8 1/2 years later ...
    Ahhhhhh. Yes, those were the days.

    Guys who were new to OCDO had to toughen-up fast and hone their arguments. Boy! I'm telling you: there was a time around here that you didn't dare advance an argument with the least logical fallacy or somebody would send you cratering in flames. And, you could count yourself a bit lucky if only one person called out your logical fallacy.

    That was a lively time. My what a challenge! To quote a post and reply in terms that spoke to the rough-hewn without also committing any one of a couple dozen logical fallacies. And, no holds barred. Flame suit required!

    Man, oh, man. You were talking to the salt-of-the-earth and receiving his salty terms in reply. Oh, I didn't care whether he drank too much, womanized too much, rode the wrong motorcycle or drove the wrong truck. All I cared about was whether he believed in open carry. His crude arguments and abrasive style didn't much matter. Those were the salt-of-the-earth guys we were trying to reach.

    Yes, those were the days. (sniff)
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Your state is blue. My state is suppose to be red. And I hope it stays red. Is there a chance your state turns red?
    Sincerely hope so. It will be a battle royal.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Ahhhhhh. Yes, those were the days.

    Guys who were new to OCDO had to toughen-up fast and hone their arguments. Boy! I'm telling you: there was a time around here that you didn't dare advance an argument with the least logical fallacy or somebody would send you cratering in flames. And, you could count yourself a bit lucky if only one person called out your logical fallacy.

    That was a lively time. My what a challenge! To quote a post and reply in terms that spoke to the rough-hewn without also committing any one of a couple dozen logical fallacies. And, no holds barred. Flame suit required!

    Man, oh, man. You were talking to the salt-of-the-earth and receiving his salty terms in reply. Oh, I didn't care whether he drank too much, womanized too much, rode the wrong motorcycle or drove the wrong truck. All I cared about was whether he believed in open carry. His crude arguments and abrasive style didn't much matter. Those were the salt-of-the-earth guys we were trying to reach.

    Yes, those were the days. (sniff)
    Appreciate your comments and insight.

    Hopefully, we have all benefited along the way and that our battle scars are few.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member speed41ae's Avatar
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    This incident is what brought VCDL and OCDO to my attention.

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    8 1/2 years later we are still fighting similar battles = LEAs who will not control their agents and LEOs who will take advantage to advance a personal agenda.

    http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/va...?RECID=1230082

    http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-263296.html

    https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.h...&f=24&t=259058
    I don't know about that guy who posted the story on ar15.com. Not sure I can trust him.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    8 1/2 years later we are still fighting similar battles = LEAs who will not control their agents and LEOs who will take advantage to advance a personal agenda.

    http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/va...?RECID=1230082

    http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-263296.html

    https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.h...&f=24&t=259058
    Yes Tony's 7, Danbus and a few other activist fights and wins really put the wind in our sails. Lately The activist movement seems to have taken a nap. Been replaced with stupid political shows. Hopefully the coming state agency preemption fight will give us a real cause again and the open carry activist movement will wake up.

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    --snipped-- Hopefully the coming state agency preemption fight will give us a real cause again and the open carry activist movement will wake up.
    McAwful got attention.......but so does wet excrement in a church. .. ... OK, I'm going to sit in the corner now.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 09-20-2016 at 07:54 AM. Reason: fixed
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    McAwful got attention.......but so does wet excrement in a church. .. ... OK, I'm going to sit in the corner now.
    depends...

    nuff said!!

    ipse
    "He who pays the piper calls the tunes..." (OBE as Grape called melody!!)

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    McAwful got attention.......but so does wet excrement in a church. .. ... OK, I'm going to sit in the corner now.
    Wet excrement in a church is less offensive...

    Roscoe
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Your state is blue. My state is suppose to be red. And I hope it stays red. Is there a chance your state turns red?
    Recent polling puts the Commonwealth of Virginia within the margin of error in the presidential election. Back at the first of the month the dems were about 10 or so percentage points ahead.

    Works for me.

    Nemo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Appreciate your comments and insight.

    Hopefully, we have all benefited along the way and that our battle scars are few.
    Growing up, the family had a cat.

    He was a loveable cat. Dumb as a post--almost the Forrest Gump of cats--but, unlike most cats, he returned affection beyond the amount given.

    Got him when he was a large kitten, almost full grown.

    As the new kid on the block, he lost a lot of fights with the other tom-cats.

    His cheeks had so many scars...they became essentially armor plated.

    Factoring in the armor-plate remark, guess how his story turned out.

    Battle scars do more than signify injury.
    Last edited by Citizen; 09-21-2016 at 07:48 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Growing up, the family had a cat.

    He was a loveable cat. Dumb as a post--almost the Forrest Gump of cats--but, unlike most cats, he returned affection beyond the amount given.

    Got him when he was a large kitten, almost full grown.

    As the new kid on the block, he lost a lot of fights with the other tom-cats.

    His cheeks had so many scars...they became essentially armor plated.

    Factoring in the armor-plate remark, guess how his story turned out.

    Battle scars do more than signify injury.
    Good point.

    Might say they are the campaign ribbons of where we have been and what we have done.

    Battle born signifies the success of having survived.

    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    History!

    I remember, The Madison Five.
    Early 2011.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    I remember, The Madison Five.
    Early 2011.
    Culver's restaurant in Madison, N.C.

    "This illustrates the patience you have to possess in order to see the change made in how police officers act. You can’t expect it to happen overnight. The wheels of justice grind slow, but they grind exceedingly fine.

    We are winning."
    https://www.ncgunblog.com/2011/12/22/the-madison-5-win/

    We are preceded by and learn from those who stood up to be counted.

    Last edited by Grapeshot; 09-22-2016 at 04:42 AM. Reason: added link
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  20. #20
    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Ahhhhhh. Yes, those were the days.
    Thank you for the trip down memory lane, Citizen. You and I (as well as Grape and others) are part of the original "First 1000" club on the old OCDO site. Those WERE the days, when free wheeling speech was respected on OCDO, you could call a bad cop a bad cop, an OCDO member short of brain cells stupid, and find a place to join in OC camaraderie for dinner. Then, things changed. A whiny cop from POLICEONE (a site restricted to LEO's ONLY, which is closed to viewing by the general public so they can lambaste and talk smack all day long about whoever they want - including OCDO) came on OCDO, a place that was open and allowed free speech, to complain about how rude (and anti-cop) we were to be disparaging his anti-OC views. Instead of supporting its membership, this site bowed down to the cops and instituted restrictions on free speech and tightened up discussions to the point that moderators were deleting ANYTHING that could not be tied DIRECTLY to open carry. Moderation became heavy handed and pushed a lot of good people away. This was all in the spirit of appearing to be happy hand holding friends with the very LEO's who would refuse our OC rights if given a chance to remove them.

    That, as older members like Citizen and myself know... was the beginning of the end of the tight knit community that had started, mainly in response to the Manassas incident known as Toney's-7. New rules were implemented that limited our ability to speak our minds. The old timers quit coming to OCDO, OC dinners occurred less frequently, the annual picnic in NoVA fell by the wayside, basically the spirited activists who were the glue of OCDO lost interest. This place is a joke now. It has gone from MOLAN LABE!! to MEHWHATEVER.

    I'd imagine THIS post, due to speaking the truth and having some negativity about OCDO, and cops (and not directly about OC'ing) will be edited or removed shortly. My point has been proven if that occurs.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanB View Post
    Thank you for the trip down memory lane, Citizen. You and I (as well as Grape and others) are part of the original "First 1000" club on the old OCDO site. Those WERE the days, when free wheeling speech was respected on OCDO, you could call a bad cop a bad cop, an OCDO member short of brain cells stupid, and find a place to join in OC camaraderie for dinner. Then, things changed. A whiny cop from POLICEONE (a site restricted to LEO's ONLY, which is closed to viewing by the general public so they can lambaste and talk smack all day long about whoever they want - including OCDO) came on OCDO, a place that was open and allowed free speech, to complain about how rude (and anti-cop) we were to be disparaging his anti-OC views. Instead of supporting its membership, this site bowed down to the cops and instituted restrictions on free speech and tightened up discussions to the point that moderators were deleting ANYTHING that could not be tied DIRECTLY to open carry. Moderation became heavy handed and pushed a lot of good people away. This was all in the spirit of appearing to be happy hand holding friends with the very LEO's who would refuse our OC rights if given a chance to remove them.

    That, as older members like Citizen and myself know... was the beginning of the end of the tight knit community that had started, mainly in response to the Manassas incident known as Toney's-7. New rules were implemented that limited our ability to speak our minds. The old timers quit coming to OCDO, OC dinners occurred less frequently, the annual picnic in NoVA fell by the wayside, basically the spirited activists who were the glue of OCDO lost interest. This place is a joke now. It has gone from MOLAN LABE!! to MEHWHATEVER.

    I'd imagine THIS post, due to speaking the truth and having some negativity about OCDO, and cops (and not directly about OC'ing) will be edited or removed shortly. My point has been proven if that occurs.
    And if nothing occurs then your point is.....(standby).....pointless.

    Spirited activity is an everyday thing in the greater Richmond area as it could and should all over the Commonwealth.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    And if nothing occurs then your point is.....(standby).....pointless.
    I've already made my point with my words. Deleting or modifying the post only re-enforces the point being made. There is nothing "pointless" when years of history back me up. Look around, where are all the old timers? What do YOU think drove them away? Did they get busy with life and kids, or... was it something else?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanB View Post
    I've already made my point with my words. Deleting or modifying the post only re-enforces the point being made. There is nothing "pointless" when years of history back me up. Look around, where are all the old timers? What do YOU think drove them away? Did they get busy with life and kids, or... was it something else?
    Indeed, you seem filled with negativity.

    We, the ol' timers are still here and introducing a raft of newbies. Our numbers are growing, not diminishing.

    We have Sat. morning breakfasts, monthly dinners, lobby at the GA. We train, we teach and we learn.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Not for Ian's reasons, but I know this 10-year member comes by less. I post less, I organize dinners and picnics less, I go out of my way to events less ....

    Mostly because the character of the board has changed. It has been a subtle change, but has included inside jokes, a vehement opposition to those who do not toe the Party line (oppose Cuccinelli, Reeves, Lingamfelter, Trump, Jackson, etc -- begone!), and a less-welcoming feel. As our nation has become divided over so many issues -- economics, race, politics, religion, and intelligence -- so has our board.

    I wish I had a solution to offer. I don't, so I drift.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanB View Post
    Thank you for the trip down memory lane, Citizen. You and I (as well as Grape and others) are part of the original "First 1000" club on the old OCDO site. Those WERE the days, when free wheeling speech was respected on OCDO, you could call a bad cop a bad cop, an OCDO member short of brain cells stupid, and find a place to join in OC camaraderie for dinner. Then, things changed. A whiny cop from POLICEONE (a site restricted to LEO's ONLY, which is closed to viewing by the general public so they can lambaste and talk smack all day long about whoever they want - including OCDO) came on OCDO, a place that was open and allowed free speech, to complain about how rude (and anti-cop) we were to be disparaging his anti-OC views. Instead of supporting its membership, this site bowed down to the cops and instituted restrictions on free speech and tightened up discussions to the point that moderators were deleting ANYTHING that could not be tied DIRECTLY to open carry. Moderation became heavy handed and pushed a lot of good people away. This was all in the spirit of appearing to be happy hand holding friends with the very LEO's who would refuse our OC rights if given a chance to remove them.

    That, as older members like Citizen and myself know... was the beginning of the end of the tight knit community that had started, mainly in response to the Manassas incident known as Toney's-7. New rules were implemented that limited our ability to speak our minds. The old timers quit coming to OCDO, OC dinners occurred less frequently, the annual picnic in NoVA fell by the wayside, basically the spirited activists who were the glue of OCDO lost interest. This place is a joke now. It has gone from MOLAN LABE!! to MEHWHATEVER.

    I'd imagine THIS post, due to speaking the truth and having some negativity about OCDO, and cops (and not directly about OC'ing) will be edited or removed shortly. My point has been proven if that occurs.
    I don't know you, nor am I part of the First 1000 club, so what I'm about to say is with all due respect. I started coming to this site long after all of the controversy you describe happened, so I was not aware of that history. However, there is still a lot of anti-cop and cop-bashing on here from certain members. As a sworn law enforcement officer, I find their attitudes against LEO's childish and small, but I refrain from responding because I feel it will do no good. I'm not gonna change their minds on this website. Besides, wrestling with a pig just gets both of you dirty and the pig likes it. I will say this: if how you describe the "good old days" was really like that (and I'm not calling your description into question), then I probably would have moved on and left you "MOLON LABE" guys to your selves. I am a member here because I still enjoy reading and writing with folks who care about one thing: OCing. Not all cops care about taking away the OC rights of the citizens. I love talking to people about everything guns, both at work and at home. I could care less if somebody is OCing, as long as they are on the up and up. I also appreciate everything Grape et al do to keep this site running. To call it a joke is disrespectful and out of order. In closing, if OCDO isn't meeting your needs, maybe you should just move on and find someplace else where other kindred souls will enjoy your negativity.
    "Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson

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