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Thread: query...could the reporting of 'terror' events being used to cover other LE incidents

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    query...could the reporting of 'terror' events being used to cover other LE incidents

    nice to hear how well the nice LEs are handling issues in MN, NJ, NYC but could the news be slanted as notice the tulsa shooting friday night is getting minimal coverage...not to be confused to be a beat on police, but it seems odd we have the off-duty part time LE hero who shot and killed the suspect and the exemplary actions of the chasing the terror suspect(s) till one of them was shot numerous times...but survived yet nothing on this event?

    quote: An unarmed black man fatally shot by a white Tulsa, Oklahoma, officer responding to a stalled vehicle last week can be seen in police dashcam video walking toward his SUV with his hands up and officers following behind him before he's shocked with a stun gun and then fatally shot.

    Tulsa Police Chief Chuck Jordan announced Monday before the department released the shooting footage that 40-year-old Terence Crutcher had no weapon on him or in his SUV.

    "We will achieve justice in this case," Jordan said unquote.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/t...oting-42192589

    is this what our 1984 society is regaled to.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-19-2016 at 06:04 PM.
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    It will be interesting to see the results of a "independent" investigation that is conducted by the local/state LEAs.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    No rush to judgement.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    No rush to judgement.
    Justice delayed is justice denied.

    Did not put his hands up? Instant death. Pretty much the jist of it.

    Justice would be to make the two guys trade places now...but that cannot happen.

    There will be no true justice here.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Justice delayed is justice denied.

    Did not put his hands up? Instant death. Pretty much the jist(sic) of it.

    Justice would be to make the two guys trade places now...but that cannot happen.

    There will be no true justice here.
    Few people would wish such a verdict to be placed around their own neck.....even if they knew all of the facts.....the internet is never wrong.

    Consequently, I will wait.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Little of consequent will come from this investigation. The finders of fact are in control.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    It appeared the shooting was an ND, until she called in "shots fired". From all appearances he was shot while on the ground after being tased.

    "I feared for my life" seems to be the standard CYA, whether anybody reasonably believes it or not.
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    I never referred to you or anyone else as a shoeshine boy... I simply told you to "go get your shine box'. Not a racial statement whatsoever..-snip-
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    -snip- My offer still stands, if you want to do an honest days work, I will send you my antique shine box..

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    Interesting query, however we could substitute any number of important "new" "different" topics so as to hide the injustices being perpetrated by LEO on everyday citizens, i.e., the Presidential race, the economy, (stock market) may be even some soon to be sporting event, world series, super bowl etc.. If there are no other story's to sell than the news outlets will sell the said "injustices" stories. A leo killing an unarmed citizen is sadly becoming an everyday occurrence hence not so news worthy. The general public just shrugs their shoulders and moves on with their lives.

    I have an issue obviously with both, the G is creating this terrorist theory and the average joe citizen is buying into said theory. The anti-terrorist act and the mere word terrorist is simply applied so as to erase rights and deny people of proper due process. The so called terrorist acts are for lack of a better name "hate crimes" and hate crimes only.. The term terrorism originated circa 1795 used as government intimidation in France hence now being used again here. I over heard a guy at the local pub the other night call the quarterback for the San francisco 49ers a terrorist because he did not stand during the National Anthem, again government ingrained thinking. Today exercising a constitutional right could and will be construed as a terrorist act by some folks..

    Issue number two, the killing of innocent citizens by agents of the government that are hired and trained to protect the people in their community.
    This is becoming a common occurrence and until justice is properly served no one is safe.. Now, where does the problem start, is it training, is it the mentally of knowing that your chances of being exonerated from the charges are in your favor, or is it simply US versus Them mentally? There appears no simple answers, therefore difficult to solve the problems..

    Until the guilty are bought to justice and put out for display as common criminals I fear we and our families are living on a cliff.
    What is the justification for killing another human being, until we can answer that question with some degree of certainty will shall never have a good nights sleep.

    So called terrorist do indeed have a justifiable reason for their heinous actions ( they hate our way of life) hence a "hate crime".
    However an armed government agent hired to protect and serve the citizens has no justifiable reason for slaughtering an unarmed citizen, what is the logic for the slaughter, what is the motivation? Reasonable like minded folks can understand terrorism and the actions thereof terrorist, however, call me stupid but I can't seem to understand the concept of killing an unarmed person..

    My .02
    Regards
    CCJ
    " No Moral Man can adjust to Injustice".. Henry David Thoreau

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Interesting query, however we could substitute any number of important "new" "different" topics so as to hide the injustices being perpetrated by LEO on everyday citizens, i.e., the Presidential race, the economy, (stock market) may be even some soon to be sporting event, world series, super bowl etc.. If there are no other story's to sell than the news outlets will sell the said "injustices" stories. A leo killing an unarmed citizen is sadly becoming an everyday occurrence hence not so news worthy. The general public just shrugs their shoulders and moves on with their lives.

    I have an issue obviously with both, the G is creating this terrorist theory and the average joe citizen is buying into said theory. The anti-terrorist act and the mere word terrorist is simply applied so as to erase rights and deny people of proper due process. The so called terrorist acts are for lack of a better name "hate crimes" and hate crimes only.. The term terrorism originated circa 1795 used as government intimidation in France hence now being used again here. I over heard a guy at the local pub the other night call the quarterback for the San francisco 49ers a terrorist because he did not stand during the National Anthem, again government ingrained thinking. Today exercising a constitutional right could and will be construed as a terrorist act by some folks..

    Issue number two, the killing of innocent citizens by agents of the government that are hired and trained to protect the people in their community.
    This is becoming a common occurrence and until justice is properly served no one is safe.. Now, where does the problem start, is it training, is it the mentally of knowing that your chances of being exonerated from the charges are in your favor, or is it simply US versus Them mentally? There appears no simple answers, therefore difficult to solve the problems..

    Until the guilty are bought to justice and put out for display as common criminals I fear we and our families are living on a cliff.
    What is the justification for killing another human being, until we can answer that question with some degree of certainty will shall never have a good nights sleep.

    So called terrorist do indeed have a justifiable reason for their heinous actions ( they hate our way of life) hence a "hate crime".
    However an armed government agent hired to protect and serve the citizens has no justifiable reason for slaughtering an unarmed citizen, what is the logic for the slaughter, what is the motivation? Reasonable like minded folks can understand terrorism and the actions thereof terrorist, however, call me stupid but I can't seem to understand the concept of killing an unarmed person..

    My .02
    Regards
    CCJ
    thanks CCJ for interesting perspective...

    perhaps if those servants,LEs, DAs, Judges, etc., who have qualified immunity were stripped of this privilege i wonder if these servant's moral consciousness would return ~ some what.

    ipse

    added: as for dealing with those (BG & ???) who actually take a life fair trial w/o judicial BS and antics...if found guilty, then two complete (2) judicial reviews two years apart. if verdict reached from these reviews the by the fifth year the individual is executed ~ humanely. (no, i will not debate the 'this and that' nuances of getting the wrong individual or extenuating circumstances, etc., as the fact exists...there is someone dead by someone's elses act.)
    Last edited by solus; 09-20-2016 at 05:51 PM.
    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    nice to hear how well the nice LEs are handling issues in MN, NJ, NYC but could the news be slanted as notice the tulsa shooting friday night is getting minimal coverage...not to be confused to be a beat on police, but it seems odd we have the off-duty part time LE hero who shot and killed the suspect and the exemplary actions of the chasing the terror suspect(s) till one of them was shot numerous times...but survived yet nothing on this event?

    quote: An unarmed black man fatally shot by a white Tulsa, Oklahoma, officer responding to a stalled vehicle last week can be seen in police dashcam video walking toward his SUV with his hands up and officers following behind him before he's shocked with a stun gun and then fatally shot.

    Tulsa Police Chief Chuck Jordan announced Monday before the department released the shooting footage that 40-year-old Terence Crutcher had no weapon on him or in his SUV.

    "We will achieve justice in this case," Jordan said unquote.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/t...oting-42192589

    is this what our 1984 society is regaled to.

    ipse

    no- it's to cover up the fact that the US bombed a Syrian army base this weekend.
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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Justice delayed is justice denied.

    Did not put his hands up? Instant death. Pretty much the jist of it.

    Justice would be to make the two guys trade places now...but that cannot happen.

    There will be no true justice here.
    wait a second-

    why does he need to put his hands up if it's not a traffic stop or lawful detention? the female officer wasn't responding to the 911 calls about an SUV abandoned and running in the middle of the street "getting ready to blow up", she was on her way to another call, but stopped because she thought the guy was in need of help. and then while talking, she asked him to take his hands out of his pockets.

    why though?

    at what point do we draw the line and make every interaction between citizen and LEO a criminal interaction? does someone with their hands in their pockets all of a sudden become dangerous when the person they are talking to is a cop?

    i think we are finally starting to realize the fear tactics being constantly lectured to us by our government...."if you see something say something"...."submit to authority"...."just comply and it'll be over in a minute"...

    i'm not even talking about the shooting- i'm going to wait for all the facts to come out.

    but- based on what the female cop said in a statement through her lawyer, she treated him like a criminal from the jump.
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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post

    Issue number two, the killing of innocent citizens by agents of the government that are hired and trained to protect the people in their community.
    This is becoming a common occurrence and until justice is properly served no one is safe.. Now, where does the problem start, is it training, is it the mentally of knowing that your chances of being exonerated from the charges are in your favor, or is it simply US versus Them mentally? There appears no simple answers, therefore difficult to solve the problems..

    CCJ


    it starts with LEOs not knowing the law or their legal authority for a stop.

    it's not JUST the shootings we should be worried about....it's the illegal detentions for open carry...for video taping...for not giving a name when legally not required to...etc.

    cops keep getting away with these little things, and it leads to the bigger things (shootings of unarmed blacks).

    they think that non-compliance means "suspect" or "criminal", instead of "individual rights" and "freedom".

    if you don't submit to unlawful authority by police, that doesn't make you a suspect, nor does it give cops the green light to use aggression or force.

    get on your Google and type in "first amendment audit" or "first amendment check", and you can sit there all day watching cops violate the law.


    that's the problem.
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    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

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    Addressed at some length in this pod cast.

    All Americans Are Racist, but Trump Supporters are the Most Racist
    Jared Taylor and Paul Kersey discuss new polls of the racial attitudes of Trump and Clinton supporters. From The American Renaissance- AmRen - not SPLC or ACLU or ABCBSNBCPBS

    http://traffic.libsyn.com/amren/ASPD.mp3

    G00gle is not a fair broker of the information available on the internet. Use DogPile or DuckDuckgo.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 09-20-2016 at 08:33 PM.
    The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it. Gee Zeus, get a grip on 'yourself'!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    it starts with LEOs not knowing the law or their legal authority for a stop.

    it's not JUST the shootings we should be worried about....it's the illegal detentions for open carry...for video taping...for not giving a name when legally not required to...etc.

    cops keep getting away with these little things, and it leads to the bigger things (shootings of unarmed blacks).

    they think that non-compliance means "suspect" or "criminal", instead of "individual rights" and "freedom".

    if you don't submit to unlawful authority by police, that doesn't make you a suspect, nor does it give cops the green light to use aggression or force.

    get on your Google and type in "first amendment audit" or "first amendment check", and you can sit there all day watching cops violate the law.


    that's the problem.


    Your preaching to the choir Sir, I am well aware of the injustices citizens are experiencing at the hands of some uneducated tyrants with a badge and
    gun. The more poisonous root is that their bosses and colleagues support such vile criminal actions.

    These vile actors need to be held accountable in plain view of the general public, their court appearances publicized I.E. the OJ trial.. Put these criminals on display and make them and their supporters look as horrible has the act itself. Long jail sentences and million dollar law suits seems like a good start.

    Regards
    CCJ
    " No Moral Man can adjust to Injustice".. Henry David Thoreau

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    hammer6, et al., as stated my post wasn't to project a cop watch thread but rather, as you brought up hammer, the shifting of news away from actual events, e.g., the convoy & warehouse destroyed or the bombing of the foreign airbase...

    WA state AG's is pushing his agenda and the only lame stream news medium pushing rebuttal is an internet rag...

    would complaints to the mainstream outlets suffice? not sure...i do know the TV news outlets have to appraise the FCC during license renewal time and viewer complaints are listened to by the FCC...

    but remember this is systemic across out society not just in the judicial circles...

    CCJ, you are right the outrageous antics of a few do bring dishonor on the whole when they turn their heads and look the other way...so how to begin to affect a change?

    ipse
    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    hammer6, et al., as stated my post wasn't to project a cop watch thread but rather, as you brought up hammer, the shifting of news away from actual events, e.g., the convoy & warehouse destroyed or the bombing of the foreign airbase...

    WA state AG's is pushing his agenda and the only lame stream news medium pushing rebuttal is an internet rag...

    would complaints to the mainstream outlets suffice? not sure...i do know the TV news outlets have to appraise the FCC during license renewal time and viewer complaints are listened to by the FCC...

    but remember this is systemic across out society not just in the judicial circles...

    CCJ, you are right the outrageous antics of a few do bring dishonor on the whole when they turn their heads and look the other way...so how to begin to affect a change?






    ipse



















    Affect a change, well, we could start by executing the executioners, that would suit me just fine and the punishment would indeed match the crime however I guess we can start the old fashion way, arrest the murderers, have a trial and blast the case/cases all over the news media outlets (rating would soar) Have the defendant wear his/her assigned prison clothing in court instead of his/her nice suit and badge or uniform.. No uniformed police allowed in the court room except a few that work in that court room..
    Hold the vile tyrants accountable both criminally and civilly.. Let justice be quick however their punishment long and torturous!
    My .02
    CCJ
    Last edited by countryclubjoe; 09-21-2016 at 02:27 AM.
    " No Moral Man can adjust to Injustice".. Henry David Thoreau

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    As a civilized society, we just can't turn a blind eye to theses daily injustices upon our citizens..

    Think of Martin Niemoller" Then they came for me"... Scary right, you, we, me, just because we are white and armed think it can't happen to us, well my friends, if these untrained uneducated tyrants are capable of killing an unarmed person for no reason, no justification, think how they will feel about ambushing a person for simply open carrying his/her weapon.. You can see it now, but he/she had a gun, I was in fear of my life, I wanted to stop the threat, oh, I didn't know a citizen could openly carry a hand gun on the streets, I thought only us "bullies" with a shiny badge could do such things..

    "Then they came for me"...

    My .02
    " No Moral Man can adjust to Injustice".. Henry David Thoreau

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    Please be advised that my post are not intended to be LEO bashing, please allow me to explain.. The second a person with a gun kills an unarmed person that person with the gun, no matter what type of uniform h/h is wearing or what type of credentials h/h is carrying, is now a "defendant"..

    There are plenty of decent well educated, well trained LEO's out there on the streets each and everyday and they are doing a good job however their brother/sister colleagues that are killing citizen without any justification are sticking the decent, educated, trained officer in the same barrel with the killers. Until the decent, educated, trained leo climbs out of said barrel and brings his/her vile colleague to justice well, then they must continue to share space in that there same barrel.

    On a sidebar, we are more likely to encounter a leo everyday as opposed to a "terrorist". The difference is, kill a terrorist become a hero, kill a bad untrained leo, even if justified, and you, me, us have big issues.. Think about that..

    My .02

    CCJ
    " No Moral Man can adjust to Injustice".. Henry David Thoreau

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    It appeared the shooting was an ND, until she called in "shots fired". From all appearances he was shot while on the ground after being tased.

    "I feared for my life" seems to be the standard CYA, whether anybody reasonably believes it or not.
    That's why we always need to keep our fingers off of triggers until the moment we actually shoot.

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