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Thread: Louisiana open carry question

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    Louisiana open carry question

    I open carry, do not have a CCW, by definition, do I have to take my firearm off my belt when I get into my vehicle? The "law" is a little confusing to me on this matter.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Where is the confusion?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Where is the confusion?
    Based on the controversy that Wisconsin had, he may be asking is his gun concealed by being in a vehicle? What defines concealment in LA?
    I was not unserious with my suspicion of Gastaut-Geschwind Syndrome. No more quote mining, contextomy!. I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Based on the controversy that Wisconsin had, he may be asking is his gun concealed by being in a vehicle? What defines concealment in LA?
    Here's a quick primer on carrying guns in vehicles in Louisiana: You may have a gun. You may carry it in your vehicle. You may have it concealed, in the open, on the dash, on the seat, under the seat, in the glove box or hanging from the rear-view mirror.

    Possession of a gun in your vehicle is perfectly legal in Louisiana as the vehicle is considered an extension of your home (As it is worded in LRS 14:95.2: "Any constitutionally protected activity which cannot be regulated by the state, such as a firearm contained entirely within a motor vehicle.")

    http://www.louisianasportsman.com/details.php?id=1226
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member HeroHog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Here's a quick primer on carrying guns in vehicles in Louisiana: You may have a gun. You may carry it in your vehicle. You may have it concealed, in the open, on the dash, on the seat, under the seat, in the glove box or hanging from the rear-view mirror.

    Possession of a gun in your vehicle is perfectly legal in Louisiana as the vehicle is considered an extension of your home (As it is worded in LRS 14:95.2: "Any constitutionally protected activity which cannot be regulated by the state, such as a firearm contained entirely within a motor vehicle.")

    http://www.louisianasportsman.com/details.php?id=1226
    That doesn't mean concealed ON YOUR PERSON. It means concealed in your car's glove box, console, under the seat or whatever unless you have a Concealed Carry permit recognized in Louisiana. Carrying openly on your person is perfectly fine, even in your car and even if it is not easily seen by the officer because of the arm rest or whatever. If when you are standing out of the car the gun can be easily seen and identified as a gun, you're good.
    NOTE: In Louisiana, if you have a CHP and are carrying CONCEALED (some cops and prosecutors would argue carrying at all), you MUST inform any cop who stops you!
    Last edited by HeroHog; 09-21-2016 at 11:47 AM.
    Speedy: LOCAL League Sec/Treasurer, Information Officer
    AKA: Hero Hog, Dr. Speed, "The Brass Mangler" and "That fat, old, balding, Grey-bearded gimpy guy"

    I don't have NEAR enough ammo on hand. `nuff said.

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    Regular Member HeroHog's Avatar
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    Side note: Some argue that you could carry concealed in your car/home due to the wording of the law but winning that one in court would be a VERY tough and expensive battle that I would bet against. It's your call...

    My public conversation with gun friendly New Orleans lawyer Owen Courreges
    http://law.justia.com/codes/louisian...4/rs14-95-2-1/
    LA Rev Stat 14:95.2.1 95.2.1. "Illegal carrying of a firearm at a parade with any firearm used in the commission of a crime of violence"

    Speedy: My personal issue: as a layperson, I would think a good lawyer would have a field day with seeing as open carry is NOT "illegal carry" and concealed carry with a permit is also legal and also that you are do not posses "any firearm used in the commission of a crime of violence," one should be able to fight this.

    Owen Courreges: It's a minor exception. The offense already requires that the person also use the gun during a crime of violence, and how many would-be criminals would open carry to a parade to commit a crime of violence? They'd be seen and stopped very quickly. With respect to concealed carry, there's a separate law saying you can't carry concealed at a parade even with a CHL, I believe.

    Speedy: Now, you could also open carry at a parade without committing a crime of violence... The law doesn't seem to cover that, at least not here... But it's just not a great idea and thus I've never heard of anybody doing it (retention issues, difficulty of using a firearm defensively in crowds, you'll probably want to drink because parades are boring without alcohol, etc.).

    Owen Courreges: Yeah, it's La. R.S. 40:1379.3(N)(9) that says CHL holders can't legally carry at a parade.

    Speedy: I realize I'm picking nits but law/lawyers, that's what ya do, right? "N. No concealed handgun may be carried into and no concealed handgun permit issued
    pursuant to this Section shall authorize or entitle a permittee to carry a concealed handgun *IN* any of the following: (9) A parade or demonstration for which a permit is issued by a governmental entity."

    What constitutes being *IN* a parade Owen?

    Owen Courreges: Hmmm... You have something there. The most natural reading of being "in" a parade is actually participating, not merely attending. That said, I suspect a judge would throw the rule of lenity out the window if the issue actually came in front of them and find the accused guilty.

    Just look at how the courts have handled the new gun rights amendment. I think it pretty clearly guaranteed constitutional carry by omitting language that allowed restrictions on concealment and also adding language subjecting all gun restrictions to strict scrutiny, but thus far the courts have basically ignored those facts and argued that everyone simply intended to preserve all existing gun laws (a preposterous notion not supported by the text). Judges don't like radical outcomes.

    So while you're correct legally, I doubt it would pan out that way in practice. Basically, the one major decision on the issue decided that the people of Louisiana basically superimposed "new" before "restriction," so that all traditional restrictions were basically grandfathered in. They essentially just amended the text arbitrarily. It's a very frustrating decision.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 09-20-2016 at 03:28 PM. Reason: rule #19
    Speedy: LOCAL League Sec/Treasurer, Information Officer
    AKA: Hero Hog, Dr. Speed, "The Brass Mangler" and "That fat, old, balding, Grey-bearded gimpy guy"

    I don't have NEAR enough ammo on hand. `nuff said.

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    That was my question. On my person, without a CCW even in my vehicle is a NO. I just have to take out and place it in the center console until I get out of the vehicle and resume to OC. Thank you for the info.

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    Regular Member HeroHog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlaughterOC View Post
    That was my question. On my person, without a CCW even in my vehicle is a NO. I just have to take out and place it in the center console until I get out of the vehicle and resume to OC. Thank you for the info.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    If it is NOT covered by your clothing, it IS legal in a car. In a holster, IWB, right side, shirt tucked BEHIND the gun, grip NORMALLY visible, no jacket covering the gun, but the gun is covered by the seatbelt: Still perfectly legal in Louisiana.
    Speedy: LOCAL League Sec/Treasurer, Information Officer
    AKA: Hero Hog, Dr. Speed, "The Brass Mangler" and "That fat, old, balding, Grey-bearded gimpy guy"

    I don't have NEAR enough ammo on hand. `nuff said.

    NRA Life Member, LSA, USN-DAV

    "Stay safe..." - Paul "Skidmark" Henick, RIP

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I defer to the gentleman (Speedy/HeroHog) who is intimately more familiar with the nuances of the law there than am I.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Thank you for the assistance.

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    Regular Member HeroHog's Avatar
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    My $0.02 on something: If there is ANY chance that during the stop the officer will see my gun, even if I do NOT have duty to inform, I WILL let them know I have a loaded gun and where it is and ask what they want me to do. I will do that with my hands on the steering wheel, making no sudden movements and choose my words very carefully, I suggest; "Officer, I have my pistol in the car with me and I didn't want you to see it and be startled. It is (wherever) and it is loaded. How would you like me to proceed?" I have had them tell me just not to touch it when I had to get papers right out from under it. No problems. Cops are used to guns in cars/trucks here. I recommend having your wallet on the dash before they get to your car and your insurance and registration papers out or available and in sight and your hands on the wheel when the cop gets to your door. If it's at night, have your dome light on. This way you don't have to reach where the cop can't see your hands and it keeps them from getting jumpy.

    I do NOT recommend giving them permission to search you or your car. If they have Reasonable Actionable Suspicion (RAS) or a warrant, they won't need your permission, otherwise, hell no!
    Last edited by HeroHog; 09-20-2016 at 11:10 PM.
    Speedy: LOCAL League Sec/Treasurer, Information Officer
    AKA: Hero Hog, Dr. Speed, "The Brass Mangler" and "That fat, old, balding, Grey-bearded gimpy guy"

    I don't have NEAR enough ammo on hand. `nuff said.

    NRA Life Member, LSA, USN-DAV

    "Stay safe..." - Paul "Skidmark" Henick, RIP

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroHog View Post
    ...I do NOT recommend giving them permission to search you or your car. If they have Reasonable Actionable Suspicion (RAS) or a warrant, they won't need your permission, otherwise, hell no!
    I've never heard RAS referred to as "Reasonable Actionable Suspicion". The phrase I'm aware of is "Reasonable Articulable Suspicion".

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    Regular Member HeroHog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    I've never heard RAS referred to as "Reasonable Actionable Suspicion". The phrase I'm aware of is "Reasonable Articulable Suspicion".
    I've seen it go both ways but "Articulable" is probably the most correct. I gave it a quick Google last night and "Actionable" came up as what I was looking for (because I was struggling to remember which was right) so I went with it. (shrugs)

    Google "Reasonable Actionable Suspicion" and see what ya get.
    Last edited by HeroHog; 09-21-2016 at 09:33 AM.
    Speedy: LOCAL League Sec/Treasurer, Information Officer
    AKA: Hero Hog, Dr. Speed, "The Brass Mangler" and "That fat, old, balding, Grey-bearded gimpy guy"

    I don't have NEAR enough ammo on hand. `nuff said.

    NRA Life Member, LSA, USN-DAV

    "Stay safe..." - Paul "Skidmark" Henick, RIP

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlaughterOC View Post
    I open carry, do not have a CCW, by definition, do I have to take my firearm off my belt when I get into my vehicle? The "law" is a little confusing to me on this matter.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    A firearm in a holster on a belt is not concealed regardless of your presence inside or outside a car/truck. The simple answer to your simple question is "no, you don't have to take your firearm off your belt".
    Last edited by georg jetson; 09-21-2016 at 11:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroHog View Post
    That doesn't mean concealed ON YOUR PERSON. It means concealed in your car's glove box, console, under the seat or whatever unless you have a Concealed Carry permit recognized in Louisiana. Carrying openly on your person is perfectly fine, even in your car and even if it is not easily seen by the officer because of the arm rest or whatever. If when you are standing out of the car the gun can be easily seen and identified as a gun, you're good.
    NOTE: In Louisiana, if you have a CHP and are carrying, you MUST inform any cop who stops you!
    Just to clarify... In La, if you have a CHP and are carrying CONCEALED, you must inform...

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    Just to clarify... In La, if you have a CHP and are carrying CONCEALED, you must inform...
    Right, although some cops and prosecutors might see that differently.

    The CHP rules state:

    ...when any peace officer approaches a permittee in an official manner or with an identified purpose, the permittee shall:
    Notify the officer that he has a weapon on his person;
    Submit to a pat down;
    Allow the officer to temporarily disarm him.


    Note that this doesn't stipulate that the gun be concealed BUT this IS a concealed carry law. Good luck with this one...
    Last edited by HeroHog; 09-21-2016 at 12:04 PM.
    Speedy: LOCAL League Sec/Treasurer, Information Officer
    AKA: Hero Hog, Dr. Speed, "The Brass Mangler" and "That fat, old, balding, Grey-bearded gimpy guy"

    I don't have NEAR enough ammo on hand. `nuff said.

    NRA Life Member, LSA, USN-DAV

    "Stay safe..." - Paul "Skidmark" Henick, RIP

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroHog View Post
    ...The CHP rules state:

    [I]...when any peace officer approaches a permittee in an official manner or with an identified purpose, the permittee shall:
    Notify the officer that he has a weapon on his person;...
    Just another freedom you voluntarily forfeit when you choose to become a permittee, apparently.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroHog View Post
    Right, although some cops and prosecutors might see that differently.

    The CHP rules state:

    ...when any peace officer approaches a permittee in an official manner or with an identified purpose, the permittee shall:
    Notify the officer that he has a weapon on his person;
    Submit to a pat down;
    Allow the officer to temporarily disarm him.


    Note that this doesn't stipulate that the gun be concealed BUT this IS a concealed carry law. Good luck with this one...
    No need t notify if openly carrying, correct? Firearm is obvious.

    In a car a permittee shall only notify if firearm is concealed on his person.

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    Regular Member HeroHog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    No need t notify if openly carrying, correct? Firearm is obvious.

    In a car a permittee shall only notify if firearm is concealed on his person.
    I agree, my points is some cops are ignorant, some are bass-holes and some prosecutors want to make names for themselves and I just want people to be aware of the possibilities that they may have to deal with.
    Speedy: LOCAL League Sec/Treasurer, Information Officer
    AKA: Hero Hog, Dr. Speed, "The Brass Mangler" and "That fat, old, balding, Grey-bearded gimpy guy"

    I don't have NEAR enough ammo on hand. `nuff said.

    NRA Life Member, LSA, USN-DAV

    "Stay safe..." - Paul "Skidmark" Henick, RIP

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    No need to notify if openly carrying, correct? Firearm is obvious.....
    An openly carried firearm is not obvious if worn at 4+ o'clock in a car seat and under a seat belt, perhaps not even to officer on the passenger side window. It is quite easy to miss, especially, if not a contrasting color. Yet, to my knowledge, this is still OC and no permit required. But if you do have a permit...
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    A lot of good information. Thank you.

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    Regular Member HeroHog's Avatar
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    It all depends on what the definition of what "is" is guys...
    Speedy: LOCAL League Sec/Treasurer, Information Officer
    AKA: Hero Hog, Dr. Speed, "The Brass Mangler" and "That fat, old, balding, Grey-bearded gimpy guy"

    I don't have NEAR enough ammo on hand. `nuff said.

    NRA Life Member, LSA, USN-DAV

    "Stay safe..." - Paul "Skidmark" Henick, RIP

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    An openly carried firearm is not obvious if worn at 4+ o'clock in a car seat and under a seat belt, perhaps not even to officer on the passenger side window. It is quite easy to miss, especially, if not a contrasting color. Yet, to my knowledge, this is still OC and no permit required. But if you do have a permit...
    Sorry bout that... I was attempting to differentiate pedestrian vs in a car. The OC is obvious while a pedestrian.

    You're right, once in a car it can be hidden from view. In La., in order to be "concealed", one must have the intent to conceal, so your example is still one of OC. However, I can see how an officer may be a bit miffed at a CC permit holder for refusing to inform if it wasn't readily viewable.

    I'm not a cc guy so I'm not required to inform, but if I were stopped with my sidearm in its holster and the officer approached the passenger side, I would most certainly have both of my hands on the wheel so that my hands and the firearm are viewable. In reality this never happens. When I'm involved in a traffic stop my sidearm goes under my seat and I make no mention of it. Telling a cop you have a firearm allows them (because there's no reading aptitude requirement for Supreme Court Justices) to remove it and run the serial number, adding time to the initial stop. I don't like hanging out with people while they build evidence against me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroHog View Post
    I agree, my points is some cops are ignorant, some are bass-holes and some prosecutors want to make names for themselves and I just want people to be aware of the possibilities that they may have to deal with.
    Yep. Since our Supreme Court has been occupied mostly by lawyers that can't read they ignorantly hand over the power to the executive branch to mess with us at will. They wouldn't do such things on purpose... would they?!?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    Sorry bout that... I was attempting to differentiate pedestrian vs in a car. The OC is obvious while a pedestrian.

    You're right, once in a car it can be hidden from view. In La., in order to be "concealed", one must have the intent to conceal, so your example is still one of OC. However, I can see how an officer may be a bit miffed at a CC permit holder for refusing to inform if it wasn't readily viewable.

    I'm not a cc guy so I'm not required to inform, but if I were stopped with my sidearm in its holster and the officer approached the passenger side, I would most certainly have both of my hands on the wheel so that my hands and the firearm are viewable. In reality this never happens. When I'm involved in a traffic stop my sidearm goes under my seat and I make no mention of it. Telling a cop you have a firearm allows them (because there's no reading aptitude requirement for Supreme Court Justices) to remove it and run the serial number, adding time to the initial stop. I don't like hanging out with people while they build evidence against me.
    Moving the gun to under the seat can be problematic when in the midst of a traffic stop.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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