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Butler County metroparks - No OC allowed per park rules

Ohio

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Butler County metroparks does not allow OC per park rules. They apparently allow (per the rules...I know 9.68 trumps) concealed carry of handgun, but again not OC of handgun or rifle. After performing a general internet search I found a post from 2007 from this site (appeared dead and not much said) and a one from 2012 from another Ohio CCW site with no follow-up (except posted email response below). Due to the age and the response provided, it should be revisited not because those using this site (as many of us may know the law on OC), but rather help fellow gun carriers. Many are from out of state that visit these parks and end up leaving their weapon in their hotel, which may leave them defenseless. Our great 9.68 trumps, but many don't even know about it or just don't care. In this case the directors of the board seem to just not care as they were informed about it and responded.

Per a posted email, one director (Jonathan R. Granville, Executive Director MetroParks of Butler County) reportedly had this to say:

"We appreciate your comments in regard to the open carry provisions of state law and the apparent conflict with the language of MetroParks Rules and Regulations. You are correct that state law always trumps local ordinances whenever there is a conflict. Recent court cases from across the state support your contention regarding open carry rights regardless of the possession of a concealed carry permit.

Our Park Rules and Regulations are due for an up-date to eliminate such conflicts, address present park system needs and increase clarity. Locally, you may be interested to know, our Ranger staff have never issued a citation based on the specific section of our Rules and Regulations which is the subject of your email and, under present circumstances, our officers will not do so.

However, your communication is very timely. We are in the process of rebuilding our Ranger Dept. and a rewrite of its public safety operating policies and existing Park Rules and Rules will take place in the coming months.

Thank you for taking the time to alert us to the potential conflict for had we been unaware the rights of responsible gun owners might have abridged."


Well, with that said back in 2012, we are now toward the end of 2016 and the rules appear to remain unchanged http://www.butlercountymetroparks.org/documents/rules.pdf

Does anyone within this forum possibly know any of these people involved in the Butler County metroparks so that a fix can actually be made or maybe a better way to move forward?
 

Grapeshot

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--snipped--

Does anyone within this forum possibly know any of these people involved in the Butler County metroparks so that a fix can actually be made or maybe a better way to move forward?
It would seem logical to first contact them and see where they now intend to go and when - politely of course. Thanks for volunteering. :)

Absenting satisfactory results, you might well consider a Writ of Mandamus compelling them to do their duty in accordance with state law.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2731
 
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color of law

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Here is the rule:
1545.09 5b
No person, except a Park Ranger, another law enforcement officer, a person within a designated hunting area, a person within a Board designated target range, or a person specifically authorized in writing by the Executive Director or his or her designee shall carry or possess a firearm of any description, air rifle, slingshot, bow, crossbow, rocket, missile throwing device, or hunting knife within a Park unless said devise is a handgun and said person possess a valid Ohio Concealed Carry Permit.
This is contrary to Ohio law.

I have the contact info and will be talking to them Monday.
 

Brian D.

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Sounds like you're going to use the phone or computer to contact them, color of law. That's kind of a shame, they may play nice and won't get to meet you in person. Their loss.
 

color of law

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I just spoke with Sergeant James. He is going to have Chief Dan Bower call me this afternoon. I informed him that their park rules are in violation of Ohio law. He was quite aware their rules are in violation. He informed me that they were working on it. I started laughing and informed him I've heard that story before. I told him I need times and dates as to when this will be fixed.

I will update later today after they call, hopefully....
 

color of law

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I just spoke with Sergeant James. He is going to have Chief Dan Bower call me this afternoon. I informed him that their park rules are in violation of Ohio law. He was quite aware their rules are in violation. He informed me that they were working on it. I started laughing and informed him I've heard that story before. I told him I need times and dates as to when this will be fixed.

I will update later today after they call, hopefully....
Well, no call from chief Dan Bower.

Jonathan R. Granville, Executive Director of the MetroParks in Butler County OH., said, back on April 28, 2012, that the Park Rules and Regulations were due for an up-date to eliminate such conflicts. He also said they are in the process of a rewrite of existing Park Rules and it will take place in the coming months.

Coming months???? We are now at coming years.

You heard the phrase Lie'n Ted, well I guess we have a Lie'n Jonathan.

I will be on the phone tomorrow.
 

color of law

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I sent the below email this morning.


To: Chief Dan Bower and Jonathan Granville
Ref: Park Rules


On Monday morning (September 26, 2016) I spoke with Sergeant James about the park rules being in violation of state law relating to firearms. Sergeant James said that he would have the chief call me that afternoon. I received no such call. I called Tuesday morning (September 27, 2016) and I left a voice message with Jonathan Granville. I have not received a return call from either.

One of the park rules that is in violation of state law (ORC § 9.68) and the Ohio Supreme Court (Ohioans for Concealed Carry, Inc. v. Clyde, 120 Ohio St.3d 96, 2008-Ohio-4605) is:

“1545.09 5b No person, except a Park Ranger, another law enforcement officer, a person within a designated hunting area, a person within a Board designated target range, or a person specifically authorized in writing by the Executive Director or his or her designee shall carry or possess a firearm of any description, air rifle, slingshot, bow, crossbow, rocket, missile throwing device, or hunting knife within a Park unless said
devise is a handgun and said person possess a valid Ohio Concealed Carry Permit. (Emphasis added)

The above rule was Adopted: May 13, 2008, but on September 18,2008 the Ohio Supreme Court found such local laws or rules in violation of state law. Sergeant James acknowledged the park rules are in violation of state law, but informed me the rules are under review.

However, in an April 2012 email Mr. Granville stated:

“We appreciate your comments in regard to the open carry provisions of state law and the apparent conflict with the language of MetroParks Rules and Regulations. You are correct that state law always trumps local ordinances whenever there is a conflict. Recent court cases from across the state support your contention regarding open carry rights regardless of the possession of a concealed carry permit.

Our Park Rules and Regulations are due for an update to eliminate such conflicts, address present park system needs and
increase clarity. Locally, you may be interested to know, our Ranger staff have never issued a citation based on the specific section of our Rules and Regulations which is the subject of your email and, under present circumstances, our officers will not do so.

However, your communication is very timely. We are in the process of rebuilding our Ranger Dept. and a rewrite of its public safety operating policies and existing Park Rules and Rules will take place in the coming months.

Thank you for taking the time to alert us to the potential conflict for had we been unaware the rights of responsible gun owners might have abridged.”

Being in the process of rewriting the rules and regulations 4 1/2 years later is clearly unacceptable.

The rules and regulations require your immediate attention. And it should be noted that ORC § 9.68 does provide a remedy.

A prompt reply as to the time and date these rules will be amended would be appreciated.

Color Of Law

CC: Edward L. Dwyer
Cynamon Trokhan
Gregory T. Amend

P/S – Any posted signs in the parks that are in conflict with state law need to also be addressed.


As you may notice I CC the park board.

Lets see if I get a reply setting a time and date for amending the rules.
 
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davidmcbeth

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File a no contact order with them noting that any contact is prohibited from any person in their agency against you and failure to comply will result in immediate arrest.

Then carry and see what happens.
 

BB62

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Now right there is some great advice! Why didn't you think of that, COL. You guys have been going at this all wrong. The reason that this has gone on so long without a resolution is now obvious. Davidmcbeth has not been involved in the process up until now. Now that he is on the hunt, a resolution is at hand. COL, get out of the way and let an expert at this problem. Everybody else is just a amateur in comparison to the great davidmcbeth.
You know, I'm wondering who is more powerful - mcbeth or the Great and Powerful Oz? It could be close call.

I may have to take off the "ignore" function on the only person currently in that status. On the other hand... maybe not. I've got some deep thinking to do. :rolleyes:
 

davidmcbeth

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You know, I'm wondering who is more powerful - mcbeth or the Great and Powerful Oz? It could be close call.

I may have to take off the "ignore" function on the only person currently in that status. On the other hand... maybe not. I've got some deep thinking to do. :rolleyes:

Oz is fictional ... I'm mythical ... slight but important difference.

No resolution because you have not created a risk for the opposing party when you are in the right.
 

solus

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Oz is fictional ... I'm mythical ... slight but important difference.

No resolution because you have not created a risk for the opposing party when you are in the right.


alas david, it has been shown 'Q' is far more powerfull, than either tha Great OZ or your mythical self.
(caveat: weeping angels were not included in Blaise's equation used to determine most powerful)

sorry...

ipse
 
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