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Thread: Roanoke attempts to ban OC in certain public places

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Roanoke attempts to ban OC in certain public places

    I thought that VA was a "Gold Star" state, with complete firearms preemption? Is what is being proposed legal?


    http://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/Ro...395756071.html

    "There's a list of places that ban semi-automatic guns with magazines of at least 20 rounds in public places and shot guns that hold at least seven shells. Now, the Roanoke city leaders voted in favor of being added to that list.

    Roanoke is also trying to govern who is allowed to bring a firearm into public buildings.

    Safety and gun bans in schools and courthouses were cited as reasons.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    I thought that VA was a "Gold Star" state, with complete firearms preemption? Is what is being proposed legal?


    http://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/Ro...395756071.html

    "There's a list of places that ban semi-automatic guns with magazines of at least 20 rounds in public places and shot guns that hold at least seven shells. Now, the Roanoke city leaders voted in favor of being added to that list.

    Roanoke is also trying to govern who is allowed to bring a firearm into public buildings.

    Safety and gun bans in schools and courthouses were cited as reasons.

    That would be legal IF the general assembly passed such a law and the governor signed it.

    I anticipate that there will be large resistance to such a change. IMO - ALL of the excepted municipalities should be removed/deleted from the statute.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member davidmcbeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    That would be legal IF the general assembly passed such a law and the governor signed it.

    I anticipate that there will be large resistance to such a change. IMO - ALL of the excepted municipalities should be removed/deleted from the statute.
    You really think this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You really think this?
    Nyaah! He's blowin' smoke up your
    assu*you.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    That would be legal IF the general assembly passed such a law and the governor signed it.

    I anticipate that there will be large resistance to such a change. IMO - ALL of the excepted municipalities should be removed/deleted from the statute.
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You really think this?
    Of course, I do. Legal = established or recognized by law.

    Review Forum Rule #15 as needed.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    I hope the General Assembly will take up consideration of a bill to remove all of the excepted localities where the carrying of certain arms by anyone other than a CHP holder is currently illegal per the Code of Virginia. If the GA has an action it is to do this to ensure uniformity in the Code across the state.

    GA to Roanoke: We agree Roanoke should be like these other cities. We'll abolish the exceptions altogether!

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Should they not ban 'mean mugging', protrusion of the sarcastic tongue?

    What about the exposed thong statute?

    It's a blight on the public consciousness ranking above having a tool on your belt.

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    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    I am with Jmelvin on this. This may be a golden opportunity to provide data showing that the exempted cities are no safer than other cities within the commonwealth, therefore the law has no positive impact for the common citizen. Therefore, no compelling reason exists to continue to allow a few municipalities to have exclusive rights not afforded to other municipalities within the commonwealth and the exemption should be rescinded and struck from the code.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Va. Code Ann. 18.2-308.2:2(G)?

    "Any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol which expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock."





    So your average AR10 is not an "assault weapon," but an AR15 would be, assuming both are equipped with "standard" magazines. Makes perfect logical sense.

    So is it the counties, towns, or municipalities that are "grandfathered in" with firearms restrictions which present the issue with 15.2-915? Why aren't state agencies preempted? Oh right, because the will of the people means nothing in Virginia. That much is evidenced by the governor's executive orders and his [mis]use of veto power.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
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    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    --snipped--

    So is it the counties, towns, or municipalities that are "grandfathered in" with firearms restrictions which present the issue with 15.2-915? Why aren't state agencies preempted? Oh right, because the will of the people means nothing in Virginia. That much is evidenced by the governor's executive orders and his [mis]use of veto power.
    The excepted municipalities were not grandfathered but given special dispensation based on their political clout and would have opposed the bill otherwise. I believe it was hammered out in committee.

    The manner in which the political authority is presently structured state agencies are the purview of the executive branch and subject to a different set of procedures.

    Could state agencies be included in preemption? Sure IF the House and Senate + the governor agree to a change in the statutes.

    Will of the people? Do you really want to go there in a state that voted for Obummer twice? This pattern must be changed.

    Note also that veto power is part and parcel of our system. The possibility to override a veto is included too.

    IMO - we will be far better off after McAwfull's term is up and we can get someone at the top more interested in protecting the legal status of honest people maintaining their right to defend themselves.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Originally this law was based on the size of the population of cities (I believe it was 170,000) and the form of the county government.

    This was amended because citizens could run afoul of the law not knowing the specific population size side of the city they would be in or what form of government the county had.

    The cities and counties listed in the current law all meet the previous requirements.

    Apparently someone has the bright idea that we can now get cities added to the list just by being added to the list by name.

    Current US census estimate for Roanoke is 99,897.
    Last edited by mobeewan; 10-05-2016 at 10:53 PM.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobeewan View Post
    Originally this law was based on the size of the population of cities (I believe it was 170,000) and the form of the county government.

    This was amended because citizens could run afoul of the law not knowing the specific population size side of the city they would be in or what form of government the county had.

    The cities and counties listed in the current law all meet the previous requirements.

    Apparently someone has the bright idea that we can now get cities added to the list just by being added to the list by name.

    Current US census estimate for Roanoke is 99,897.
    Big cities/municipalities need more protection from legal honest people. (sarcasm)

    Roanoke is just trying to make its citizenry feel better. (more sarcasm)
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrearick View Post
    I am with Jmelvin on this. This may be a golden opportunity to provide data showing that the exempted cities are no safer than other cities within the commonwealth, therefore the law has no positive impact for the common citizen. Therefore, no compelling reason exists to continue to allow a few municipalities to have exclusive rights not afforded to other municipalities within the commonwealth and the exemption should be rescinded and struck from the code.
    BINGO!

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    During my tenure in Roanoke I witnessed more petty crime and came across more felons, idiots, and systemic incarceration of poor uneducated folks than anywhere else I've lived. SE Roanoke seemed to be the worst, with NW coming in a close second (SE was more white folks, NW was more black folks) and NE Roanoke with an honorable mention. Lots of opiate addiction and career criminals. Typical Americans probably don't even know people exist like they do in and around Roanoke. It's not very comparable to any major city I can think of.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    An Ohio gun rights organization did a public records request of Cleveland, Ohio - a city that has repeatedly challenged firearm preemption laws - regarding their bitter complaints that preemption invalidated Cleveland's "assault weapons" ban.

    Might I suggest a similar course of action for the needy VA cities?

    Part 1: https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/trut...2%80%9D-part-i

    Part 2: https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/trut...%80%9D-part-ii

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The excepted municipalities were not grandfathered but given special dispensation based on their political clout and would have opposed the bill otherwise. I believe it was hammered out in committee.

    The manner in which the political authority is presently structured state agencies are the purview of the executive branch and subject to a different set of procedures.

    Could state agencies be included in preemption? Sure IF the House and Senate + the governor agree to a change in the statutes.

    ...
    So I'm confused. The OCOD information page for Virginia claims that in Virginia, "There is complete state preemption of all firearms laws..."

    Are some localities not preempted from banning certain, common firearms and magazines?

    That is kind of a big deal for those who may travel through or to such locations and might get bit.

    I recognize the state preemption info is given in context of OC and this site doesn't discuss OC of long guns. But when I read "complete state preemption of all firearms laws" I kind of figure that means all of them.

    In checking, I realize the information on the Utah page is also subtly but materially in error.

    To whom do I provide corrected information for the Utah page?

    Thanks

    Charles
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    --snipped--

    In checking, I realize the information on the Utah page is also subtly but materially in error.

    To whom do I provide corrected information for the Utah page?

    Thanks

    Charles
    Send a PM to John Pierce and be patient.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    So I'm confused. The OCOD information page for Virginia claims that in Virginia, "There is complete state preemption of all firearms laws..."

    Are some localities not preempted from banning certain, common firearms and magazines?

    That is kind of a big deal for those who may travel through or to such locations and might get bit.

    I recognize the state preemption info is given in context of OC and this site doesn't discuss OC of long guns. But when I read "complete state preemption of all firearms laws" I kind of figure that means all of them.

    In checking, I realize the information on the Utah page is also subtly but materially in error.

    To whom do I provide corrected information for the Utah page?

    Thanks

    Charles
    Virginia does have full preemption, but there is a state law prohibiting the carry of certain firearms/magazines in certain cities and counties. It covers magazines holding more than 20 rounds, and centerfire pistols with threaded barrels, among other things. CHP holders are exempt from those restrictions.

    What is happening here is that Roanoke passed a resolution to ask the General Assembly to add them to the list of localities covered by that law.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grylnsmn View Post
    Virginia does have full preemption, but there is a state law prohibiting the carry of certain firearms/magazines in certain cities and counties. It covers magazines holding more than 20 rounds, and centerfire pistols with threaded barrels, among other things. CHP holders are exempt from those restrictions.

    What is happening here is that Roanoke passed a resolution to ask the General Assembly to add them to the list of localities covered by that law.
    Not full, unconditional exemption. All state agencies come under the control of the executive branch/administrative = governor and attorney general.

    State agencies include ABC stores, Library of Va., Treasures Office, DOC lands (no hunting there anymore), and a raft of formerly completely public (no restriction) buildings. See executive Order #50 from Governor Terry McAuliffe:
    http://www.nbc29.com/story/30268009/...ntrol-measures
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-11-2016 at 04:17 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Not full, unconditional exemption. All state agencies come under the control of the executive branch/administrative = governor and attorney general.

    State agencies include ABC stores, Library of Va., Treasures Office, DOC lands (no hunting there anymore), and a raft of formerly completely public (no restriction) buildings. See executive Order #50 from Governor Terry McAuliffe:
    http://www.nbc29.com/story/30268009/...ntrol-measures
    My apologies. By "full preemption", I meant over localities, as that was the focus of this discussion. (Last I checked, the state agencies' situation was in a couple of other threads, not this one.) Roanoke is fully preempted from trying to ban the carry of any specific firearms.
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grylnsmn View Post
    My apologies. By "full preemption", I meant over localities, as that was the focus of this discussion. (Last I checked, the state agencies' situation was in a couple of other threads, not this one.) Roanoke is fully preempted from trying to ban the carry of any specific firearms.
    Yes, but as has been pointed out, certain Virginia cities have been legislated by the State to limit certain aspects of firearms carry UNLESS the carrying citizen has a Concealed Handgun Permit. Roanoke is trying to get added to that list of cities.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grylnsmn View Post
    Virginia does have full preemption, but there is a state law prohibiting the carry of certain firearms/magazines in certain cities and counties. It covers magazines holding more than 20 rounds, and centerfire pistols with threaded barrels, among other things. CHP holders are exempt from those restrictions.

    What is happening here is that Roanoke passed a resolution to ask the General Assembly to add them to the list of localities covered by that law.
    Ok. So same effect, different cause. Thank you for the clarification. And to Grapeshot for his subsequent post making clear that preemption applies to cities, not State executive agencies.

    When I think "full preemption," I think cities, counties, school districts, State-run colleges/universities, and all State or local agencies, including employment policies of all such entities. I guess I'm a little spoiled by my States FULL preemption of all gun laws except allowing cities to limit/ban discharge within city limits. Our department of wildlife resources can regulate which weapons can be used for hunting, but cannot limit what firearms a person might carry that he isn't using for hunting.

    But, with the growing popularity of suppressors, this is the kind of info that ought to be listed on the Virginia info page of OCDO. I was at the range recently with a friend and he had a couple of handguns with threaded barrels that would make nice carry pieces. No suppressors attached, but threaded barrels. A visiting OCer could find himself in a world of hurt if he brought the wrong handgun with him to OC in Virginia and then carried it into an unmarked off limits city.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    --snipped--

    But, with the growing popularity of suppressors, this is the kind of info that ought to be listed on the Virginia info page of OCDO. I was at the range recently with a friend and he had a couple of handguns with threaded barrels that would make nice carry pieces. No suppressors attached, but threaded barrels. A visiting OCer could find himself in a world of hurt if he brought the wrong handgun with him to OC in Virginia and then carried it into an unmarked off limits city.

    Charles
    Unmarked as in no billboard signage to warn the unwary- exactly.

    We are expected to know the laws, all of them. Many such laws only truly potentially penalize the honest, good citizen and do little to restrict/control the criminal element.

    Suppressors are seldom (never?) used in robberies or any crime. They are for the hearing protection of the shooter and beneficial on a hunting arm. They should IMO be removed as a Class III restricted item and with no fee associated with the purchase or ownership.
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I will contribute to an escrow account to be awarded at the discretion of our owner-administrators on the documentation of a simple OC snatch or a suppressor used in a robbery.

    Maybe not a large contribution but a mustard seed.
    Hail TRUMP Victory. Hail TRUMP Sieg! Hail TRUMP Siegreich!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I will contribute to an escrow account to be awarded at the discretion of our owner-administrators on the documentation of a simple OC snatch or a suppressor used in a robbery.

    Maybe not a large contribution but a mustard seed.
    Save your shekels - the awards are honorary, to be pinned to the winners' chest like a badge of courage = to the glory that was Greece and the grandeur that was Rome.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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