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Thread: Weapon configurations

  1. #1
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    Weapon configurations

    My preferred setup is a Beretta 92a1 with a TLR2 and an extended magazine to counter weight the weapon.

    Obviously I would probably get slack, but it is most accurate weight to nose rise configuration I have tried.

    Thoughts on open carry with a weapon in this or similar configurations. The magazine doesnt noticeably get in the way at all.
    Here is a pic of a similar config.


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO. Moved this to the Texas sub-forum, as different states will have differing statutes that may impact the responses.

    My first reaction is negative: That extended mag is too tacti-cool, and would be quite cumbersome to carry. Consider too that we wish to normalize OC as we go about our everyday lives. That rig would hardly be "normal" and if you were somewhere that you needed to CC, it would be near impossible.

    That extended magazine would appear to protrude a good five inches past your holster/hip making sitting anywhere quite difficult....and do you really need the light?

    The balance of the gun is going to change with every shot - IMO working on a solid grip is more important than inherent weight bias. Remember we are not talking about target shooting here but rather a defensive, trained reaction.

    We prefer to say handgun, pistol, or daily carry as opposed to "weapon" which is a more aggressive/combative term.

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    What Grape said. 100% plus a little.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    welcome OP, now, to ensure i understand, you wish to open carry that monstrosity while attending to your daily activities while out and about amongest the community's populace, correct?

    now, given the off chance you might need to once again try to defend the Alamo you would be in fine shape.

    however, i am not sure what the local prosecutor would say if you used the handgun during a personal defence situation since you are actually carrying more ammo the those paid to protect you; could they consider your actions as excessive force; could the argument be raised you premeditated the situation w/such a firearm, and i am sure other such menial legal discussions could impinge your judical situation tremendously.

    but, please feel free to carry you handgun out into the community where only recently citizens have been given the privileges to do so...please ask friends or loved ones to post the cites so we might enjoy your plight w/you ~ from afar!

    again welcome

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    As far as the concerns for normalization go, I think they may be overstated a little. Personally, I would like OC to be normalized to the point that a person can OC what they want (as long as it is safe), as opposed to only being able to OC within some pre-approved little box. That box doesn't expand by hunkering down in the middle. As OC is new, it might actually be the exact right time to see more... extravagant... carry rigs. Set the tone while the tone is being set instead of trying to reset it later. Also, Texas handgun OC comes in the wake of state-wide LGOC - I hardly think an extended mag is going to be too offensive compared to that. Even a full blown tacticool rig is a step down from what was being practiced just a year or so ago.

    Ultimately, my thought is, carry what you are comfortable and effective with, as long as you are safe. I wouldn't carry with an extended mag myself, but my motivations are probably not be applicable to you.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    So, is your "preferred setup" something you actually own?

    Welcome, nonetheless.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Welcome to OCDO. My first reaction is negative: Consider too that we wish to normalize OC as we go about our everyday lives. That rig would hardly be "normal" and if you were somewhere that you needed to CC, it would be near impossible.
    Welcome to OCDO, I hope you enjoy your stay.

    I, too, see this as excessive. I open carry on a daily basis and rarely have a negative encounter. It is true that we strive to reinforce the normality of the Legally Armed Citizen. That said, your "rig" is a tad over the top for daily carry.

    Do not let this run you off. Texas is "new" to OC. You guys have not been doing that for a long time. Ease into it, it gets comfortable after a while. Your "rig" may intimidate the people you wish to put at ease.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Snip... Your "rig" may intimidate the people you wish to put at ease.
    Of course for those easily (read as want to be) intimidated anything carried visible would MAKE them feel intimidated!

    BTW--- I can not MAKE anyone feel intimidated. To feel anything emotional is on them 100%.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Thank you all for the information. The one thing to point out is perception of those involved if I have to defend myself. Two to the chest center mass is not going to show excessive force, w 28 rounds left over. But, it may make my trial harder, and cause me unnecessary drama.

    But, with the world heading the way it is, the reason I would carry is for group violence. Having a mob surround you, a standard 7-11 round magazine is 3-6 people if you are 100% accurate. Most cops end up being 25% accurate in stress, so using those odds, 32 rounds keeps me at that same 3-6 threats.

    I haven't decided what I am going to do, or how to carry. My weapon is a 92a1. I bought a TLR2 for it for house protection, would be a shame to take it off and leave it on a shelf. The bright light flash to the eyes, then a side step is such a good defense on its own, shooting may not be required if it gave me time to flee the danger, or if required to take a second or two longer to aim.

    So much to think about. Ugh, wish there were better holster options out there.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    A civilian "gunfight" is very rare, especially when not in defense of a jewelry store or something. Most civilian self-defense is against a perp who doesn't want anything to do with an armed individual, and so picks on those he thinks are unarmed, which also includes those who carry concealed.

    Even in a "gunfight," reloads don't take much time or training to do well, and 16 in a standard loadout is already 8x more than the typical rounds expended even by those who must fire in self-defense. It's also about twice what I carry...

    If you are thinking about mob attacks and gunfights, there are way more better things to do to limit their possibility than your immediate firepower before a reload.

    I'm still thinking reloads are easier than awkwardly carrying an extended mag in the gun, but I'm a skinny guy. Maybe they aren't as awkward on normal people.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I am reminded of an old tongue-in-cheek story.

    After a defensive shooting, the good guy was asked, "Why did you shoot him 45 times?"

    He responded, "Because that is all of the ammo I had."

    Apparently, the threat wasn't over, the BG hadn't been stopped immediately........like in the movies.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by climberaes73 View Post
    Thank you all for the information. The one thing to point out is perception of those involved if I have to defend myself. Two to the chest center mass is not going to show excessive force, w 28 rounds left over. But, it may make my trial harder, and cause me unnecessary drama.

    But, with the world heading the way it is, the reason I would carry is for group violence. Having a mob surround you, a standard 7-11 round magazine is 3-6 people if you are 100% accurate. Most cops end up being 25% accurate in stress, so using those odds, 32 rounds keeps me at that same 3-6 threats.

    I haven't decided what I am going to do, or how to carry. My weapon is a 92a1. I bought a TLR2 for it for house protection, would be a shame to take it off and leave it on a shelf. The bright light flash to the eyes, then a side step is such a good defense on its own, shooting may not be required if it gave me time to flee the danger, or if required to take a second or two longer to aim.

    So much to think about. Ugh, wish there were better holster options out there.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

    thank goodness my mindset & SA of keeping me aware and out of mob scenes, so one would hope, would preclude me from having to defend myself against the masses. further, judicially, showing i needed deadly force to preclude the hoards from doing serious bodily harm to myself and stray rounds wounding or killing innocents would be horrific to justify.

    (sidebar: the attack on trucker Reginald Denny during the King riots show you would need quite a few more rounds to protect yourself and remember the police didn't even intervene to stop the frenzied attackers on Denny)

    biden had it right regarding home defense...

    there are plenty of cites out here regarding getting a custom holster made for your monstrosity, er handgun.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    snio...
    biden had it right regarding home defense...
    ...snip

    ipse
    Except for the legal part or identifying one's target or knowing what is behind one's target....
    At least using the Shotgun would tend to limit the damage at a distance unless using slugs!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  14. #14
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by climberaes73 View Post
    My preferred setup is a Beretta 92a1 with a TLR2 and an extended magazine to counter weight the weapon.

    Obviously I would probably get slack, but it is most accurate weight to nose rise configuration I have tried.

    Thoughts on open carry with a weapon in this or similar configurations. The magazine doesnt noticeably get in the way at all.
    SNIP...
    Quote Originally Posted by climberaes73 View Post
    SNIP...
    But, with the world heading the way it is, the reason I would carry is for group violence. Having a mob surround you, a standard 7-11 round magazine is 3-6 people if you are 100% accurate. Most cops end up being 25% accurate in stress, so using those odds, 32 rounds keeps me at that same 3-6 threats.
    SNIP...
    Welcome to OCDO and greetings from (usually) sunny, dry, Arizona climberaes73!

    I don't know what your money situation is like, nor do I know your age, but I imagine you're old enough to have the required permit for OC in Texas? Provided you have the funds*, you could consider carrying a second sidearm (or third, or fourth; I've only HEARD of four) as a backup gun. Faster to draw a second sidearm than to reload your primary, and you don't have to worry about an extended mag getting caught on your seat.

    As an example, in recent weeks I would OC a 1911-A1 (7+1 rounds of .45 ACP) and CCed a 9mm BUG with 12+1 capacity.
    21 rounds locked and loaded.

    After finishing reliability tests, I can OC a 9mm loaded with 16+1 rounds of HPs along with the BUG. 30 rounds on tap right there.


    *Plenty of inexpensive, rugged, and reliable options out there for under $300 shipped. Still quite a few under $250 shipped. On sale you MIGHT be able to score something for under $200 shipped,
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 10-08-2016 at 02:30 AM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

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    Regular Member TXOC16's Avatar
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    [sarcasm]Oh, my gosh! That sidearm would be way too scary to carry around with you. I mean, you must consider the chillren [sic]!

    And always remember, if your EDC OC firearm makes even one person anywhere even the least bit "uncomfortable," you must cease carrying it or risk public and private shunning for all eternity.[/sarcasm]

    Personally, if I come across an individual carrying something similar to what you posted, I'm going to approach them to shake their hand and thank them for advancing the cause, all the while realizing that I may need to be prepared to choke them out at some point. ;-)

    My strong suspicion is that your initial post was something of a troll, but if not, carry on and power to you.
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force." - Ayn Rand

  16. #16
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    Welcome to OCDO and greetings from (usually) sunny, dry, Arizona climberaes73!

    I don't know what your money situation is like, nor do I know your age, but I imagine you're old enough to have the required permit for OC in Texas? Provided you have the funds*, you could consider carrying a second sidearm (or third, or fourth; I've only HEARD of four) as a backup gun. Faster to draw a second sidearm than to reload your primary, and you don't have to worry about an extended mag getting caught on your seat.

    As an example, in recent weeks I would OC a 1911-A1 (7+1 rounds of .45 ACP) and CCed a 9mm BUG with 12+1 capacity.
    21 rounds locked and loaded.

    After finishing reliability tests, I can OC a 9mm loaded with 16+1 rounds of HPs along with the BUG. 30 rounds on tap right there.


    *Plenty of inexpensive, rugged, and reliable options out there for under $300 shipped. Still quite a few under $250 shipped. On sale you MIGHT be able to score something for under $200 shipped,
    let's see now...two different firearms carried, two different holsters, oh ya, two different types of ammo required...heavy, burdensome, cumbersome at best...eh think not!

    one FNH 5.7x28, w/one chambered, 20 in the mag, (extended 30 round mag quite indistinguishable from std mag) and for those rare expeditions to the store to pick up milk after EBT collapse, a spare mag ~ maybe two depended how soon after the collapse you venture out and you have min of 40rounds, or 60 rounds w/two (or two extended giving an individual a total of 91 rounds to defend oneself fetching foodstuffs) and the whole package w/o spare mags is a tidy 1.6 lbs.

    normal range is ~100m... muzzle ~ > 2000 +\- ft/sec depending on cartridge

    all and all quite lovely piece of modern workmanship!

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Gonna try and explain my thoughts on this one.

    It is not about whether something is within your rights and/or is legal. A person who is not otherwise restricted may carry a short (pistol version) of an AR15 in a cross-chest molle rig, wear full camo, boots or sandals, and wear a tactical* neck scarf topped with sunglasses. All legal in Virginia.
    *https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...agh-scarf.html

    You will get people's attention, most of it negative. Mine too. I will watch you closely and maybe snap the manual safety off on my 1911. Your actions will determine what response is appropriate.

    I am sensitive to the political climate following the ISIS related incidents that have occurred in numerous locations. I will tend to dress in a style that generally conforms to local standards, maybe even a bit better. I will smile and nod in a friendly manner to all that meet my eyes. I will engage in polite, light banter with the merchant or server in a restaurant.

    In short, I will do all that I can reasonably do to demonstrate that I am a good guy and not a threat.

    Politics? Yes.

    There is no avoiding the fact that we OCers are all educators whether we chose to be or not. What we project and how is not set in concrete, but we will project something.

    Me? I'm just a normal person (no remarks, please) going about my everyday routine.

    Hope my red shirt doesn't offend/scare anybody.


    ymmv.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-08-2016 at 07:16 AM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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