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Thread: Windcreek State Park>>No Open Carry Signs

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    Windcreek State Park>>No Open Carry Signs

    I visited Windcreek State Park this past weekend and while visiting the Marina, inside the park, I saw this sign on the front door.

    When I asked about it, and exactly what it meant, I was told that firearms carry was OK, but they did not want them to be seen. I questioned further, but the clerks really did not have a clue about Alabama laws, so I let it drop and decided to contact somebody in management with the park system.

    I have contacted the Alabama State Parks director this week via e-mail, and asked for an explanation, and why the sign is there.

    When I hear back from him, I will let everybody know what he says.

    Jerry
    20161008_105452_resized (560 x 996).jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by JS415 View Post
    I visited Windcreek State Park this past weekend and while visiting the Marina, inside the park, I saw this sign on the front door.

    When I asked about it, and exactly what it meant, I was told that firearms carry was OK, but they did not want them to be seen. I questioned further, but the clerks really did not have a clue about Alabama laws, so I let it drop and decided to contact somebody in management with the park system.

    I have contacted the Alabama State Parks director this week via e-mail, and asked for an explanation, and why the sign is there.

    When I hear back from him, I will let everybody know what he says.

    Jerry
    20161008_105452_resized (560 x 996).jpg
    See page #10, item #6 in the link following, which may be applicable to your concerns.

    "POLITICAL SUBDIVISION. A county, incorporated city, unincorporated city, public local entity, public - private partnership, and any other public entity of a county or city commonly considered to be a political subdivision of the state."
    http://www.ago.alabama.gov/File-Alabama-Weapon-Laws
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    I am aware of that section, but if I'm reading it right, that addresses a place where a firearm can not be carried.

    I do not think that would apply here. The employees of the park, along with the sign, both say it is Ok to carry in that location. They just do not want to see it being carried.

    The section quoted basically describes what a "political subdivision" is. I'm not sure a gift shop/marina inside a state park can be considered that. I've seen the courts and Park System make wilder claims though, so I shall see.

    In all my years of travel and carry of firearms, I have never seen one that specifically prohibited "open carry".

    Thanks for the comment.

    Jerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    See page #10, item #6 in the link following, which may be applicable to your concerns.

    "POLITICAL SUBDIVISION. A county, incorporated city, unincorporated city, public local entity, public - private partnership, and any other public entity of a county or city commonly considered to be a political subdivision of the state."
    http://www.ago.alabama.gov/File-Alabama-Weapon-Laws
    In my read of that linked in your quote one is directed to a section of definitions of certain terms---- not on how they apply to regulating guns. Am I mssing something here?
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    See page #10, item #6 in the link following, which may be applicable to your concerns.

    "POLITICAL SUBDIVISION. A county, incorporated city, unincorporated city, public local entity, public - private partnership, and any other public entity of a county or city commonly considered to be a political subdivision of the state."
    http://www.ago.alabama.gov/File-Alabama-Weapon-Laws
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    In my read of that linked in your quote one is directed to a section of definitions of certain terms---- not on how they apply to regulating guns. Am I mssing something here?
    I would think that Windcreek State Park would qualify as a public local entity.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I would think that Windcreek State Park would qualify as a public local entity.
    In Alabama, code section 220-05-.08 states that it is legal to carry in a state park, so I think that question is out the window, so to speak.

    My question is why the specific target of "open carry" by individuals visiting the park.

    Maybe they believe the Marina/Gift Shop is a "public local entity"?

    I'm betting that it is a really old sign and has never been questioned or asked to have it removed, as many have been in the Alabama Parks system.

    Interesting thoughts from everyone,

    Thanks,

    Jerry

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    After waiting a couple of weeks, I finally heard back from Mr. Lein.

    After a small bit of small talk concerning my visit to the State Park, he got around to answering my question. Quoted below is his response:

    Regarding your questions pertaining to our authority to manage firearms in the state parks, our legal authority on this matter remains unchanged. A similar question came up recently regarding the signage at Paul Grist State Park. In that instance, we undertook communications with the Attorney General’s Office to address a citizens question on this matter (i.e., our regulation of firearms within our state parks), and did so to the satisfaction of the AG’s Office.



    We believe what has been confusing to some is the language within the new law (Act 2013-283) is focused on preempting or superseding local government (as opposed to state agencies). Based on these opinions from our Legal Section, we continue to operate our parks under the provisions of Alabama Code Section 220-5-.08.
    All I could get out of this is that they follow state law, which in this case would be 220-5-.08 Other than that, I do not think I really got an answer from him.

    I e-mailed back and asked about open carry, and exactly what his policy for the Alabama State Parks system was.

    I really do not expect an answer......

    Jerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by JS415 View Post
    After waiting a couple of weeks, I finally heard back from Mr. Lein.

    After a small bit of small talk concerning my visit to the State Park, he got around to answering my question. Quoted below is his response:



    All I could get out of this is that they follow state law, which in this case would be 220-5-.08 Other than that, I do not think I really got an answer from him.

    I e-mailed back and asked about open carry, and exactly what his policy for the Alabama State Parks system was.

    I really do not expect an answer......

    Jerry
    State agencies generally come under the control of the executive branch (governor), not the legislative; hence, 220.5 - .8 is part of the Alabama Department of Conservation and Natural Resources Administrative Code.

    See 220.8:
    ".....nothing in this regulation prohibits the possession of handguns by lawfully licensed persons for personal protection, provided, the handguns are not used for any unlawful purpose."

    Note that CC is not mandated, which IMO leaves OC legal within the confines of the regulation.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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