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Thread: City of Wilder, cooperative violator

  1. #1
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    City of Wilder, cooperative violator

    Wilder is a small city in northern Ky. Here is a city ordinance that contains their parks regulations, in part:

    § 93.01 REGULATIONS ON USE.

    (A) The following rules and regulations are established for the use of municipal parks in the city.

    (13) Rule 13: Firearms. No person shall carry or discharge firearms, slings, bows, or any other device by which persons, animals, or birds may be injured or frightened, and no one shall throw stones or other missiles within park property except with written permission of the Commission.


    On Monday I sent an email to the Mayor and City Administrator about this city ordinance. Tuesday, I got a one line response. Here that is:

    Just something that was overlooked. It will be taken care of.


    I investigated a little and found out that they have a City Commissioners meeting scheduled for Monday night. I sent a second email and suggested they get busy and rewrite the ordinance and have the first reading on Monday night. In reality, I never expected that they would move that fast or even could move that fast.

    Four hours later I got this reply:


    Yes the ordinance is already prepared for next Monday night’s meeting. Attached is a copy.

    I'm not going to post the amended ordinance, because they just deleted "Rule 13" and renumbered the rest of the rules and moved on. I wish that other people would move this fast, cooperate one tenth as much, be half as polite and use as much good sense as this small city's officials.

    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-13-2016 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Rules violation - do NOT edit moderated changes
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    nice done gutshot...

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    Regular Member Animalou812's Avatar
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    Good catch gut shot. I found the city of Taylor mill (just south of wilder) had similar prohibitions. A simple call and a message left had it resolved the same night. At least on their web page then the next day the park signs were changed.


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Great job from resident activist (gutshot) taking care of business. Thank you.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Animalou812 View Post
    Good catch gut shot. I found the city of Taylor mill (just south of wilder) had similar prohibitions. A simple call and a message left had it resolved the same night. At least on their web page then the next day the park signs were changed.


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    You must be a mind reader, Animalou812. The same day that I sent the email to Wilder, I sent one to Taylor Mill because of this ordinance:

    § 98.02 ACTIVITIES PROHIBITED.

    Nobody other than officers and employees of the city shall cause, promote, permit, allow, aid, assist, encourage or engage in any of the following activities or occurrences within Pride Park, which is located at 5614 Taylor Mill Road, Taylor Mill, KY.

    (A) The presence of anybody within the boundaries of the park anytime after dusk and before dawn, without special authorization from the city commission.

    (B) The possession of a firearm by anybody other than members of the Taylor Police Department or any other peace officer.

    I have had some dealings with the City Administrator, Jill Bailey, before. She is a very deceptive and unpleasant person. Who did you talk to? Where were the signs? What was the web address where they were posted?

    Just after KRS 65.870 became effective, in 2013, I was told about Taylor Mills park regulations and contacted Ms. Bailey. After a few emails where she insulted me and said some very unkind things about KC3, and claimed that no state law prohibited her city from regulating guns any way that they wanted, she finally, after some intense educational sessions, agreed to take the park regulations down from their internet site. In my final email to her, I included this language,
    "KC3 requests that Taylor Mill remove all signs or references to this policy on all Taylor Mill property and to withdraw this and any other policy or city ordinance on firearms possession." Ms. Bailey assured me that Taylor Mill was in compliance with that request and all state laws.

    The park rules that I was originally complaining about were, word for word, the same as this newly discovered ordinance.

    Here are the two Taylor Mill park rules that KC3 complained about over 3 years ago. I think they were removed from the internet, but from your information it seems that they still existed in the form of physical signs at the parks.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...ion%20Form.pdf

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71293583/Taylor%20Mill%20-%20Park%20Rules%20(1).pdf


    At that time, I don't believe that Taylor Mill's ordinances were published anywhere on the internet, but I was pretty busy then and may not have looked as closely as I should have. In any case, Ms. Bailey was not honest with me about the city's ordinances. I assumed that she had seen the light and would do as she said she would. It seems that was a big mistake, on my part.

    I could take some comfort from the fact that neither Taylor Mill or Wilder are very big cities and that their ordinances don't effect many people, but I don't want to think that way. In my mind any violation of a person's gun rights is a terrible infringement. It is like a physical assault, there is no such thing as a small one.

    I have not herd back from Ms. Bailey yet and I am not looking forward to her message. I am certain it will not be a pleasant conversation, but no matter, it is necessary and will be done. I'll get back when I hear from her. Thanks for your great work on this, Animalou812.

    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

    William Pitt



    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

    Samuel Adams









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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ^ ^ ^ Time for a Writ of Mandamus perhaps? ^ ^ ^
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Animalou812's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    You must be a mind reader, Animalou812. The same day that I sent the email to Wilder, I sent one to Taylor Mill because of this ordinance:

    § 98.02 ACTIVITIES PROHIBITED.

    Nobody other than officers and employees of the city shall cause, promote, permit, allow, aid, assist, encourage or engage in any of the following activities or occurrences within Pride Park, which is located at 5614 Taylor Mill Road, Taylor Mill, KY.

    (A) The presence of anybody within the boundaries of the park anytime after dusk and before dawn, without special authorization from the city commission.

    (B) The possession of a firearm by anybody other than members of the Taylor Police Department or any other peace officer.

    I have had some dealings with the City Administrator, Jill Bailey, before. She is a very deceptive and unpleasant person. Who did you talk to? Where were the signs? What was the web address where they were posted?

    Just after KRS 65.870 became effective, in 2013, I was told about Taylor Mills park regulations and contacted Ms. Bailey. After a few emails where she insulted me and said some very unkind things about KC3, and claimed that no state law prohibited her city from regulating guns any way that they wanted, she finally, after some intense educational sessions, agreed to take the park regulations down from their internet site. In my final email to her, I included this language,
    "KC3 requests that Taylor Mill remove all signs or references to this policy on all Taylor Mill property and to withdraw this and any other policy or city ordinance on firearms possession." Ms. Bailey assured me that Taylor Mill was in compliance with that request and all state laws.

    The park rules that I was originally complaining about were, word for word, the same as this newly discovered ordinance.

    Here are the two Taylor Mill park rules that KC3 complained about over 3 years ago. I think they were removed from the internet, but from your information it seems that they still existed in the form of physical signs at the parks.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...ion%20Form.pdf

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71293583/Taylor%20Mill%20-%20Park%20Rules%20(1).pdf


    At that time, I don't believe that Taylor Mill's ordinances were published anywhere on the internet, but I was pretty busy then and may not have looked as closely as I should have. In any case, Ms. Bailey was not honest with me about the city's ordinances. I assumed that she had seen the light and would do as she said she would. It seems that was a big mistake, on my part.

    I could take some comfort from the fact that neither Taylor Mill or Wilder are very big cities and that their ordinances don't effect many people, but I don't want to think that way. In my mind any violation of a person's gun rights is a terrible infringement. It is like a physical assault, there is no such thing as a small one.

    I have not herd back from Ms. Bailey yet and I am not looking forward to her message. I am certain it will not be a pleasant conversation, but no matter, it is necessary and will be done. I'll get back when I hear from her. Thanks for your great work on this, Animalou812.



    Taylor mill did have this sign up as of 9-1-15.

    City of Taylor Mill.
    I talked to the city council today and at first the lady said I couldn't have a weapon then I informed her that yes I could. She took my info and said a Bill Daily would call me back at some point. I did not receive a call from Mr daily but the police chief called me back, a Mr. Steve Knauf did. He told me that I was correct and the signage at the park along with the web site will be changed. He was very polite and even said that this is still America and I have a right to carry my weapon.



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  8. #8
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animalou812 View Post

    Taylor mill did have this sign up as of 9-1-15.

    City of Taylor Mill.

    I talked to the city council today and at first the lady said I couldn't have a weapon then I informed her that yes I could. She took my info and said a Bill Daily would call me back at some point. I did not receive a call from Mr daily but the police chief called me back, a Mr. Steve Knauf did. He told me that I was correct and the signage at the park along with the web site will be changed. He was very polite and even said that this is still America and I have a right to carry my weapon.
    GUTSHOT,

    I think your young(er) protege has been found. He has been involved and a key participant in a number of events I have organized.

    I suggest you commence your rigorous "hills, hollers & concrete jungles" training regime ASAP.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animalou812 View Post


    Taylor mill did have this sign up as of 9-1-15.

    City of Taylor Mill.
    I talked to the city council today and at first the lady said I couldn't have a weapon then I informed her that yes I could. She took my info and said a Bill Daily would call me back at some point. I did not receive a call from Mr daily but the police chief called me back, a Mr. Steve Knauf did. He told me that I was correct and the signage at the park along with the web site will be changed. He was very polite and even said that this is still America and I have a right to carry my weapon.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    9-1-15? More than a year ago? Or do you mean 9-1-16?
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

    William Pitt



    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

    Samuel Adams









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    Regular Member Animalou812's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    9-1-15? More than a year ago? Or do you mean 9-1-16?
    Last year.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Animalou812 View Post
    Last year.


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    I misunderstood from the beginning. Now that I reread the whole thread, I see there was no reason behind it, but I assumed that your contact with them was at the same time as mine. I just sent my email about a week ago. In any case, it seems they have a habit of only fixing as much as they are forced to fix, and nothing more. That's what they did with me, 3 years ago and again with you, last year. They want to do everything piecemeal. I am going to see if I can put a stop to that. I'll be contacting Ms. Bailey for a follow up, soon.
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

    William Pitt



    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

    Samuel Adams









  12. #12
    Regular Member Animalou812's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    I misunderstood from the beginning. Now that I reread the whole thread, I see there was no reason behind it, but I assumed that your contact with them was at the same time as mine. I just sent my email about a week ago. In any case, it seems they have a habit of only fixing as much as they are forced to fix, and nothing more. That's what they did with me, 3 years ago and again with you, last year. They want to do everything piecemeal. I am going to see if I can put a stop to that. I'll be contacting Ms. Bailey for a follow up, soon.
    I live close to there and will help anyway I can.


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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animalou812 View Post
    I live close to there and will help anyway I can.


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    Thanks, Animalou. We' will see how it goes.
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

    William Pitt



    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

    Samuel Adams









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