CC mental health form question

I realize this is an OC forum, but I figured I might get some advice here. I currently OC, have gotten PPPs with no issue, and waiting for a CC permit from another state to go through. I would also prefer to have a NC permit as well. Here's my concern. I am currently under treatment for a "serious" mental illness. The illness is well-controlled with medication, and I am religious about taking it. My career is also such that I care for people in life-or-death situations every day, the point being that I am allowed to be licensed and do this work with my illness.

The concealed-permit form requests all of your mental health treatment records, and physical treatment records for that matter. I have noticed that some counties have "filled-in" forms that list local state hospitals for medical records, etc. Others leave it blank, I suppose so you can fill in your own physicians. I am applying for a permit in a county that leaves the form blank; am I required to provide them the information of my personal physician, therapist, etc.? Or is the fact that I have never been treated for mental illness at a state hospital, have never had LE issues, etc. good enough? If I'm going to have to give them my personal physician's information then forget it, especially when I can legally OC just fine (or CC with an OOS permit). But if they're not going to call up my personal doctor and ask, and I can skip putting down that info at all, I'll go ahead and get it. Any thoughts?

Skeletor06 said:

I realize this is an OC forum, but I figured I might get some advice here. I currently OC, have gotten PPPs with no issue, and waiting for a CC permit from another state to go through. I would also prefer to have a NC permit as well. Here's my concern. I am currently under treatment for a "serious" mental illness. The illness is well-controlled with medication, and I am religious about taking it. My career is also such that I care for people in life-or-death situations every day, the point being that I am allowed to be licensed and do this work with my illness.

The concealed-permit form requests all of your mental health treatment records, and physical treatment records for that matter. I have noticed that some counties have "filled-in" forms that list local state hospitals for medical records, etc. Others leave it blank, I suppose so you can fill in your own physicians. I am applying for a permit in a county that leaves the form blank; am I required to provide them the information of my personal physician, therapist, etc.? Or is the fact that I have never been treated for mental illness at a state hospital, have never had LE issues, etc. good enough? If I'm going to have to give them my personal physician's information then forget it, especially when I can legally OC just fine (or CC with an OOS permit). But if they're not going to call up my personal doctor and ask, and I can skip putting down that info at all, I'll go ahead and get it. Any thoughts?

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first, i am not an attorney.

second, you must apply for the CHP in the county you reside in ~ not an option to pick and chose where you wish to get your NC CHP

third, the CHP background check has a mental health release for the county court of residence to do a records check see if you were officially committed.

fourth, the medical release lists the local mental health institutions in the immediate area of the county where you are applying. looking at greene county's release, it does not ask nor require you provide provider information.

fifth, the sheriff requests the mental health records from the local MH institutions in your area. you do not provide any records

now the bad news...sorry, OP but while you did not mention your specific diagnosis, your statement and use of the term 'serious' MH issues necessitating outpatient psychiatric care to the point of mandated psychotropic meds to maintain your mental health ~ to be religiously taken causes me to be seriously concerned you should not have access to firearms.

this is especially since you state these meds must be taken regularly, so if you fail to take them and your serum levels fall, what occurs ~ do you lose your grasp of reality ?

no, as a first time poster, your story is hokey enough to be true, if so you have no business whatsoever being around firearms.

i did mention i am not an attorney...didn't i?

ipse

solus said:

first, i am not an attorney.

second, you must apply for the CHP in the county you reside in ~ not an option to pick and chose where you wish to get your NC CHP

third, the CHP background check has a mental health release for the county court of residence to do a records check see if you were officially committed.

fourth, the medical release lists the local mental health institutions in the immediate area of the county where you are applying. looking at greene county's release, it does not ask nor require you provide provider information.

fifth, the sheriff requests the mental health records from the local MH institutions in your area. you do not provide any records

now the bad news...sorry, OP but while you did not mention your specific diagnosis, your statement and use of the term 'serious' MH issues necessitating outpatient psychiatric care to the point of mandated psychotropic meds to maintain your mental health ~ to be religiously taken causes me to be seriously concerned you should not have access to firearms.

this is especially since you state these meds must be taken regularly, so if you fail to take them and your serum levels fall, what occurs ~ do you lose your grasp of reality ?

no, as a first time poster, your story is hokey enough to be true, if true you you have no business whatsoever being around firearms.

i did mention i am not an attorney...didn't i?

ipse

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I appreciate your concern for my well-being. However, a couple of points. I didn't say you get to pick and choose where you apply. I said that the forms used by some counties have filled in information regarding where they request records, while others are blank (Orange lists Duke, Wake County is totally blank, with not even state hospitals listed). Your county may list where they will request MH records, but many do not. IN ADDITION to that request, they ask about involuntary commitment via state clerks. I also didn't ask about involuntary commitments. If I were involuntarily committed, I wouldn't have been able to get a PPP, or pass a federal background check anywhere, for that matter. I also never said I would need to provide the records myself; I asked if I was required to give my personal physician's information. The form does say "any and all doctors, hospitals or other providers who have ever provided physical or mental health or substance abuse treatment or care to me, including without limitation the providers named below". I am guessing people didn't include their pediatrician, or the doctor who did their colonoscopy last year. So, if they didn't, I don't see why I should put down the doctor who prescribes the medication I've taken for 15 years either.

Finally, your comment that I have no business being around firearms is asinine. I do understand your concern, and I agree that people who refuse treatment for mental illness should not be allowed to have weapons. However, you're engaging in stereotyping. As I previously stated, I was allowed to get a PPP, I can pass an NICS with flying colors, and have owned and carried guns for well over a decade. Not to mention, I work in a field where I am responsible for the care of people with life-or-death issues on a day-to-day basis. Literally. By your logic, I shouldn't be able to do that work, or drive a car, or use a knife to cut bread because I risk hurting people. If I were so disabled, then I would certainly not be allowed to do the work that I do, because every single day I would be putting more people in danger than any concealed firearm. I have handled my illness, and firearms, for years without needing your permission to do so.

Skeletor06 said:

I appreciate your concern for my well-being. However, a couple of points. I didn't say you get to pick and choose where you apply. 1) I said that the forms used by some counties have filled in information regarding where they request records, while others are blank (Orange lists Duke, Wake County is totally blank, with not even state hospitals listed). Your county may list where they will request MH records, but many do not. IN ADDITION to that request, they ask about involuntary commitment via state clerks. I also didn't ask about involuntary commitments. If I were involuntarily committed, I wouldn't have been able to get a PPP, or pass a federal background check anywhere, for that matter. I also never said I would need to provide the records myself; I asked if I was required to give my personal physician's information. The form does say "any and all doctors, hospitals or other providers who have ever provided physical or mental health or substance abuse treatment or care to me, including without limitation the providers named below". I am guessing people didn't include their pediatrician, or the doctor who did their colonoscopy last year. So, if they didn't, I don't see why I should put down the doctor who prescribes the medication I've taken for 15 years either.

Finally, your comment that I have no business being around firearms is asinine. I do understand your concern, and I agree that people who refuse treatment for mental illness should not be allowed to have weapons. 2) However, you're engaging in stereotyping. As I previously stated, 3) I was allowed to get a PPP, 4) I can pass an NICS with flying colors, and have owned and carried guns for well over a decade. Not to mention, I work in a field where I am responsible for the care of people with life-or-death issues on a day-to-day basis. Literally. By your logic, I shouldn't be able to do that work, or drive a car, or use a knife to cut bread because I risk hurting people. If I were so disabled, then I would certainly not be allowed to do the work that I do, because every single day I would be putting more people in danger than any concealed firearm. 5) I have handled my illness, and firearms, for years without 6) needing your permission to do so.

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1) sorry, but why on earth would you check what any of the other 100 counties are doing regarding MH checks ~ leads the reader down the path you are searching for a county w/the least restrictive criteria.

2) no stereotyping going on whatsoever... tis a well known concern some suffering from mental health issues, bi-polar & schizophrenia are at significant risk of being noncompliant in taking their psychotropic meds much to the detriment of themselves as well as those around them. specific reasons center around their lack of awareness of their illness a condition called anosognosia, or comorbid substance abuse, or financial issues, etc.

remember, YOU initially brought up the concept you 'religiously' take you mental health psychotropic meds as you brag about your life and death interface with NC citizens and once again are trying to convince either yourself or someone who cares you have to take meds to function to accomplish your duties. if your employer didn't do a mental health background check that is a fault of their HR policies.

depending on the psychotropic meds, being on them for years is not a strong bragging point as some lose efficacy as the body's metabolism fails to use the meds as intended.

3) sorry, there are two distinct criteria for the county sheriff to issue a citizen a PPP and issue a citizen a CHP!

4) of course, you can pass a NICS ~ another fallacy in NC's system...our LE system does not feed the FBI's systems since by ATF statute, NC's citizens are exempt from Brady NICS checks.

5) of course, i know you have discussed your immediate hands on availability of firearms with your MH care provider who is prescribing your religiously taken psychotropic meds so you can deal with your illness?

6) my permission...sorry OP...YOU brought the question of MH criteria for NC's conceal carry permit to this open carry site and openedly and publicly admitted to be suffering from a MH disease which requires psychotropic meds to be taken religiously so you can function in your self proclaimed life and death occupation.

therefore, since you are protesting way too much on how super functional you are...now whether it's denial or exhibiting anosognosia, i personally do not care, but my advice stands!

ipse

added...into archery?

I purposely did not respond to this thread. A first time member eliciting advice on how to get a permit with MH issues seems like Soros trolling, especially post election where the gun control candidate lost.

While the OP may be on the level, I have my suspicions.

WalkingWolf said:

I purposely did not respond to this thread. A first time member eliciting advice on how to get a permit with MH issues seems like Soros trolling, especially post election where the gun control candidate lost.

While the OP may be on the level, I have my suspicions.

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i know, but didn't want the nice OP being able to say...membership failed to provide appropriate information ...so i jumped in, after making a split second Life/Death decision to participate...

darn the bad luck..shocker, they didn't like the answer...

kinda like the bloke in western NC with their tales of adventure...huh!

ipse

I apologize if it seemed I was bragging about my career. I understand it may have come off that way, and that wasn't my intention. I was simply trying to illustrate that my career does involve care of people, in such a way that if I were a risk to others it would be cause for concern. My employer is well aware of my illness, and my physician is well aware of my ownership of firearms. My only question was whether I needed to put down their information on a MH form, since the requirement is unclear. As I stated, I don't think everyone actually puts down any doctor who's ever treated them for any mental or physical illness. My refusal to sign the permit if they request my personal physician's information is not because my medical record indicates I am unsafe or unable to carry a firearm. It is because were the sheriff to refuse my permit out of unreasoned fear, it would be public record. I don't want that, especially when I can legally carry already.

Leaving aside getting a concealed permit, I am curious about something. You harped on the fact that I said I "religiously" take medication. Isn't that a good thing? It would seem to point to the idea that I have insight into my illness, and that I am treating it with due diligence. I have had this illness for 20 years and have never been in legal or civil trouble, or been inpatient for my illness, whether self-admitted or committed. I do know of anosognosia, which is why I meet with my physician regularly and take medication as prescribed. You seem to be familiar with medical information, so I would guess you're also aware that many "physical" medications and illnesses may present with mental health symptoms. Diuretic medication and hypoglycemia (just to name two) can cause paranoia and emotional agitation. Should all people being treated for hypertension or diabetes be kept away from guns, then? I would argue they should not. I understand your concern, and once again I do share your belief that people who refuse to get treatment for mental illness should not be around firearms. But your blanket statement that the mere fact that I have a well-treated mental illness means I cannot be trusted with a firearm seems overly broad. It seems we'll disagree there.

1) a GP physician is not a board psychiatrist, trained and working on a daily basis with patients suffering from significant MH illness as well as the nuances of psychotropic meds and their uniqueness within each individual's metabolism. yo gp, need refill...how ya doing on the meds...great...oh good, here is your refill...

2) while your perception the State's mandate to have your personal physician's information (or contacts your insurer) violates federal HIPPA statues is immaterial as failure to provide the info means the sheriff doesn't approve the application ~ you lose, go to county court for relief...please let us know the outcome of pushing that rock up hill!

3) humm...throwing the BS flag on the misinformation you are slinging regarding paranoid or emotional agitation behaviour associated with diabetic prescribed meds in type 2 diagnosed individuals.
a. hypo symptoms: Shakiness. Nervousness or anxiety. Sweating, chills and clamminess. Irritability or impatience.Confusion, including delirium. Rapid/fast heartbeat. Lightheadedness or dizziness. Hunger and nausea.

b. hyper symptoms: Passing more urine than normal. especially at night. Being very thirsty. Headaches. Tiredness and lethargy.

now OP, where in the world do these symptoms pose a real world threat to any other citizen if an individual's blood glucose goes awry?

4). please do not presume to apply your context to something you feel i have stated in this thread...i did not make any statement regarding 'refusing' treatment...

5) my statement remains...me thinks thou brags too much of your normalcy and now i am of the belief it isn't denial but rather anosognosia

oh another concept you might wish to consider as you get your out of state permit...
a. you will not be able to use it for firearm purchases
b. second comment from the nice LE why do you have a NC DL and a tim-buc-too out of state permit?

best laid plans, eh!!

ipse

ps: you know an asute observation leading to the following query...why have you already sought to obtain an out of state permit? especially since it can not be used to purchase firearms in NC!

perhaps there is something askew in your outstanding functioning while religiously partaking in daily psychotropic meds

I never said I was using a GP, so don't assume that. I am treated by a board-certified psychiatrist. Your statement that "failure to provide means the sheriff doesn't approve the application" speaks directly to my question. The requirement, as written, is you are required to provide information for:

any and all doctors, hospitals or other providers who have ever provided physical or mental health or substance abuse treatment or care to me, including without limitation the providers named below.

So yes, it seems I should put the info down. But you can't honestly believe that people put down the doctor they saw for their colonoscopy, or their bum knee, or the cold they had when they were 10 years old. So, that's my question. If we're supposed to put down everyone, then so be it. But unless everyone is going to actually do that when or if you or they get a CC permit, then I shouldn't need to, either.

You don't want me to apply context to things you didn't say, but your agreement with the belief that people with untreated mental illness shouldn't have guns is implied by your statement that people with well-treated mental illness shouldn't.

On the subject: I didn't say "diabetic prescribed meds in type 2 diabetes", as you claim. I said "diURETICS", which are a medication for high blood pressure. I then mentioned hypoglycemia, which is another illness and is found in Type 2 DM.

You asked me why nervousness, anxiety, irritability, impatience, and confusion including delirium could "pose a real world threat". Read them. Do they sound like what you want in someone carrying a gun? Diabetics who are properly treated avoid those symptoms; people with properly treated mental illness avoid theirs, too.

From The Journal of Emergency Medical Services
http://www.jems.com/articles/print/...recognizing-treating-hypoglycemia-hyperg.html

"Signs of hypoglycemia include altered mental status, confusion [...] Epinephrine is secreted as the body enters into “fight or flight” mode as a result of the brain receiving inadequate glucose. [...] Hypoglycemia can present as alcohol intoxication, and patients could become combative and aggressive, with slurred speech and lack of coordination."

From the U.S. NIH website:
https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-in...betes-problems/low-blood-glucose-hypoglycemia

Hypoglycemia symptoms, mild-to-moderate: Lists "irritable, nervous, combative, argumentative, changed behavior or personality, trouble concentrating".

I can find more sources, if you like.

I don't know why you bolded that I couldn't use an OOS permit to buy a pistol. I already knew that. We've already established I can get a PPP, so why does it matter?

I have an OOS permit because it is where my parents and family live. NC honors it, but I was planning on getting one here just to avoid getting a PPP, and to avoid having the very conversation with a LEO that you described.

You made an unwarranted and unsolicited comment about my ability to be around weapons, I provided you information that should argue that I am perfectly capable. I also provided information that shows how untreated physical illnesses present with psychiatric symptoms, but you seem to be perfectly fine with that.

I also never claimed to be "super functional". I work, I go home, I take care of my family. I mentioned my job only in that it shows my illness doesn't disable me. Where did I claim that I was better at anything than anyone else?

yet no outcry over the information...
a. you are unable to use the out of state chp for firearm purchases...
b. there are criteria differences between being issued PPP and CHP.
c. other discrepancies you pointed which were rebuked.

only outcry is over the challenge to your perception of being functional while on psychotropic meds.

ipse

My long reply to your post is in limbo for moderator approval. But since I'm here, I'm very aware that an OOS permit won't allow me to buy a gun. I never claimed it would! The OOS permit will allow me to carry concealed. We've already established I can get a PPP just fine. I was getting an NC permit for convenience sake only, which would allow me to forgo PPP and LEO concerns regarding an out of state permit. Once it's posted, my longer reply attempts to answer your other concerns.

Skeletor06 said:

My long reply to your post is in limbo for moderator approval.

snipp....

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OP, i wish you well in your life's quest(s)...

the tale posted told enough to facilitate an adequate reading regarding your situation and whatever rationale awaiting release shan't provide enough illumination to negate my perception(s)...

again, go well, and welcome to the NC sub forum of the nationally recognized OPEN CARRY publicly read website.

ipse

I apologize for creating an emotional discussion which was probably better located on a different site. While I disagree with your views regarding my ability to handle firearms, this seemed to devolve into an argument and that was not my intent. I invite you to read my reply, as it does answer some of your concerns. While I doubt we'll be debating it, I do hope it helps illuminate my position. Regardless, I appreciate your welcome to the forum.

Skeletor06 said:

My long reply to your post is in limbo for moderator approval. But since I'm here, I'm very aware that an OOS permit won't allow me to buy a gun. I never claimed it would! The OOS permit will allow me to carry concealed. We've already established I can get a PPP just fine. I was getting an NC permit for convenience sake only, which would allow me to forgo PPP and LEO concerns regarding an out of state permit. Once it's posted, my longer reply attempts to answer your other concerns.

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All of the posts in Moderation Que have now been released.

Your patience is appreciated.

Skeletor, welcome to the forum - you have nothing to apologize for. I hope you stick around and become one of its more prolific members despite the frigid "welcome" you've received from others!

This forum, as I'm sure you've probably seen on other websites as well, is full of busybodies with nothing better to do than pick apart every detail of your life, based on nothing more than their interpretation of one or two posts. Many times they will ascribe ulterior motives to someone - again, without knowing the first thing about them - apparently because their advanced psychology degrees allow them to see into a new person (through the internet, no less) as if peering deep into your soul.

In short, don't let 'em get to you. In my experience that type of fussbudget exists in every facet of society, but tends to be much more concentrated in internet fora. Enjoy your time here, and ignore those who know you so well (even though you've never met.)

well said have gun, spoken like the true busybody who, based on their interpretation of one or two posts, picks apart responses to negate the enthusing conversation w/o one iota contribution to the inital premise posed by the OP.

then because YOU feel the responses were inappropriate, you advise the OP to ignore the proffered responses!

so have gun, please step out and provide appropriate guidance to the OP from NC regarding ppp & chp application criteria.

oh and please have gun, include your commentary regarding the exuberant supplied information about the OP's volunteered MH status in regards to their wiggle weasel attempt thru NC's chp application mental health procedures.

finally, have gun, please collaborate my statements back to the OP re ppp or chp criteria differences regarding the county sheriff's processes these documents for NC citzens.

finally, have gun, no rebuttal from you regarding the use of an out of state's chp to purchase a firearm from NC's FFLs.

sorry, i forgot have gun, i missed anything in your post about the OP's statement regarding type 2 meds causing paranoid or erratic behaviour which make the type 2 citizen a deadly hazard to other citizens.

advanced psychology...sorry this type of background information is taught in basic undergrad psy courses called abnormal psychology leading towards a major in the field.

tho...kudos there was one point you were right on about your fussbudget comment...you seem to fit the profile quite well...

i await your contibution to the resolutionOP's inital premise regarding the MH quandry.

Ipse

I guess you didn't read the released long reply to your post, or you would see that I freely admit that the form clearly states that they want ALL of your records, from ALL doctors or hospitals, for ANYTHING you've ever been seen by a doctor or hospital for, ever, in your entire life. Physical and mental. I sincerely doubt anyone has done that, so I asked for clarification. Perhaps I should have left it at that, and not mentioned the reason, but that's in the past. Everything else has followed from your unsolicited opinion regarding my mental fitness. I'm not trying to weasel out of anything. If they want the info, I won't apply, because I disagree with their need for it.

Once again, read my post. I never mentioned diabetic medication. I mentioned diURETIC medication for high blood pressure, which can certainly cause psychiatric concerns. I am happy to provide sources, if needed. I did mention DM and Hypoglycemia, and I hope the info I provided adequately proves my argument that uncontrolled hypoglycemia can cause psychiatric concerns. I have no clue why those outcomes don't bother you, but you seem to think people who have well-controlled and treated mental illness should fit into the "extremely dangerous" category.

I also never stated that I would attempt to use an OOS permit to purchase a pistol. I don't know where you got that. Or your assertion I am being treated by a GP. I never stated that. My physician is a board-certified psychiatrist.

You mentioned you have a degree in abnormal psych. I am saddened that your degree didn't help you to see that people who are properly treated for mental illness are no more dangerous than anyone else.

pm my tired arse and let's chat

Skeletor06 said:

I guess you didn't read the released long reply to your post, or you would see that I freely admit that the form clearly states that they want ALL of your records, from ALL doctors or hospitals, for ANYTHING you've ever been seen by a doctor or hospital for, ever, in your entire life. Physical and mental. I sincerely doubt anyone has done that, so I asked for clarification. Perhaps I should have left it at that, and not mentioned the reason, but that's in the past. Everything else has followed from your unsolicited opinion regarding my mental fitness. I'm not trying to weasel out of anything. If they want the info, I won't apply, because I disagree with their need for it.

Once again, read my post. I never mentioned diabetic medication. I mentioned diURETIC medication for high blood pressure, which can certainly cause psychiatric concerns. I am happy to provide sources, if needed. I did mention DM and Hypoglycemia, and I hope the info I provided adequately proves my argument that uncontrolled hypoglycemia can cause psychiatric concerns. I have no clue why those outcomes don't bother you, but you seem to think people who have well-controlled and treated mental illness should fit into the "extremely dangerous" category.

I also never stated that I would attempt to use an OOS permit to purchase a pistol. I don't know where you got that. Or your assertion I am being treated by a GP. I never stated that. My physician is a board-certified psychiatrist.

You mentioned you have a degree in abnormal psych. I am saddened that your degree didn't help you to see that people who are properly treated for mental illness are no more dangerous than anyone else.

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Unless it has changed, and I don't think it has. The applicant signs a release, THEN the county/state access those records. Usually the release form is available online from the county. In case I missed it, what county are you in, I will look up the county website?

As to blood pressure medicine(water pills) there is no such warning, and I have never heard of anything like that. I am more and more beginning to believe there is a political hack on this thread.