Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

Thread: Citizen protects deputy - kills suspect

  1. #1
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    33,919

    Citizen protects deputy - kills suspect

    Passerby shoots, kills suspect fighting deputy on I-75

    "ESTERO, Fla. — A passerby shot and killed a person who was fighting with a Lee County Sheriff’s Office deputy on Interstate 75 Monday morning.

    Deputy First Class Dean Bardes, a 12-year-veteran, was working a crash at mile marker 126 when the suspect came upon him, causing Bardes to pursue him at high speeds, according to multiple sources.

    Bardes and the suspect exited their vehicles at the Corkscrew Road exit and a fight started, sources said. The suspect was armed, Bardes told his supervisors, according to sources."

    http://www.winknews.com/2016/11/14/police-activity-blocks-i-75-sb-at-exit-123/

    http://www.winknews.com/2016/11/15/j...lved-incident/
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,885
    How did the guy know that the person he shot was not an undercover cop or FBI not in uniform arresting the uniformed policeman?

    These are the perils or such things.

  3. #3
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,126
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    How did the guy know that the person he shot was not an undercover cop or FBI not in uniform arresting the uniformed policeman?

    These are the perils or such things.
    He didn't but he was still justified under the law to intervene. Nothing in the world is perfect.
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    I never referred to you or anyone else as a shoeshine boy... I simply told you to "go get your shine box'. Not a racial statement whatsoever..-snip-
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    -snip- My offer still stands, if you want to do an honest days work, I will send you my antique shine box..

  4. #4
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,668
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    How did the guy know that the person he shot was not an undercover cop or FBI not in uniform arresting the uniformed policeman?

    These are the perils or such things.
    There are perils to most things. Intervening with deadly force in someone else's fight is fraught with peril.

    That said, I presume (and heaven forbid ever need to, will argue in court) that a professional, highly trained peace officer will conduct himself in a professional manner while interacting with me or other members of the public in an official capacity.

    I've read that NYC detectives take great pride in comporting themselves in such a way that they don't generally need to flash their badge to gain access to crime scenes or have the cooperation of other officers when arriving after uniformed officers have secured the site.

    The moment an undercover agent switches from being undercover to effecting an arrest, I expect he will switch from his undercover persona to his professional peace officer persona.

    Likewise, if a person in uniform ever comports himself significantly below what should be the minimum standard for a highly trained, professional peace officer, I may have to conclude I am dealing with a criminal impersonating an officer rather than an actual officer. I hope and pray such a situation never arises, and that if it does, it doesn't come close to requiring physical resistance. But neither do I intend for myself or a loved one to be easily victimized simply because someone chooses to obtain a police uniform before starting their night of crime.

    Those who would expect the deference and respect due the position of peace officer, must comport themselves as such. Those whose conduct falls well below some reasonable expectation for what peace officer would do, risk losing not only respect and deference, but also compliance, regardless of how they are dressed.

    In a world of undercover cops and criminals impersonating cops, what other standard can a prudent citizen employ?

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  5. #5
    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Posts
    565
    Video of the incident has been released.

    http://www.nbc-2.com/story/34846661/...1&sf63606875=1

    Interesting actions by all involved.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
    -Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratification Convention, June 5, 1788

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    2,717
    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    There are perils to most things. Intervening with deadly force in someone else's fight is fraught with peril.

    That said, I presume (and heaven forbid ever need to, will argue in court) that a professional, highly trained peace officer will conduct himself in a professional manner while interacting with me or other members of the public in an official capacity.

    I've read that NYC detectives take great pride in comporting themselves in such a way that they don't generally need to flash their badge to gain access to crime scenes or have the cooperation of other officers when arriving after uniformed officers have secured the site.

    The moment an undercover agent switches from being undercover to effecting an arrest, I expect he will switch from his undercover persona to his professional peace officer persona.

    Likewise, if a person in uniform ever comports himself significantly below what should be the minimum standard for a highly trained, professional peace officer, I may have to conclude I am dealing with a criminal impersonating an officer rather than an actual officer. I hope and pray such a situation never arises, and that if it does, it doesn't come close to requiring physical resistance. But neither do I intend for myself or a loved one to be easily victimized simply because someone chooses to obtain a police uniform before starting their night of crime.













    Those who would expect the deference and respect due the position of peace officer, must comport themselves as such. Those whose conduct falls well below some reasonable expectation for what peace officer would do, risk losing not only respect and deference, but also compliance, regardless of how they are dressed.

    In a world of undercover cops and criminals impersonating cops, what other standard can a prudent citizen employ?

    Charles
    There are over 34,000 police officers in New York City, I would bet that NONE of them consider themselves " Peace Officers".. Just saying.

    My .02
    Ask yourself, Do You Own Yourself?

  7. #7
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,668
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    ..Just saying.

    My .02
    Just saying what, exactly? As opposed to what else?

    And what .02 do you speak of? (Answers are not correct without units.)
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    2,717
    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Just saying what, exactly? As opposed to what else?

    And what .02 do you speak of? (Answers are not correct without units.)
    Just saying that no police officer in NY or any other big city considers themselves "peace officers".. Also I am certain that you knew what I was implying and that Sir is indeed my opinion.
    Ask yourself, Do You Own Yourself?

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Lynchburg
    Posts
    491
    The first question in any case like this is-- how bad did the dead person need killing. The answer to that question determines how everything following it should occur.

    In this case the answer to the important question is real bad. So he got killed. Nuff said. Case closed.

    Nemo

  10. #10
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,668
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Just saying that no police officer in NY or any other big city considers themselves "peace officers".. Also I am certain that you knew what I was implying and that Sir is indeed my opinion.
    You explicitly asserted that no police officer in NY considers himself a peace officer. What is beyond that to imply? What do you mean to suggest by asserting that no big city police officer considers himself a peace officer? (As assertion I believe is false as I believe I could find a fair number of big city police officers who do consider themselves peace officers.)

    Were I to infer something, you might take offense or claim I was putting words in your mouth.

    Perhaps one ought to either be a bit more explicit, or else leave the implications and innuendo entirely un-written so as to avoid incorrect and potentially offensive inferences from the reader. No?
    Last edited by utbagpiper; 03-17-2017 at 10:21 PM.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    2,717
    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    You explicitly asserted that no police officer in NY considers himself a peace officer. What is beyond that to imply? What do you mean to suggest by asserting that no big city police officer considers himself a peace officer? (As assertion I believe is false as I believe I could find a fair number of big city police officers who do consider themselves peace officers.)

    Were I to infer something, you might take offense or claim I was putting words in your mouth.

    Perhaps one ought to either be a bit more explicit, or else leave the implications and innuendo entirely un-written so as to avoid incorrect and potentially offensive inferences from the reader. No?
    Charles, have you ever heard a peace officer, say, FREEZE Peace Officer? Neither have I..
    I appreciate your opinion, we should probably move forward and debate more important issues.. Always a pleasure opining with you Sir!
    Regards
    CCJ
    Ask yourself, Do You Own Yourself?

  12. #12
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,521
    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Just saying what, exactly? As opposed to what else?

    And what .02 do you speak of? (Answers are not correct without units.)
    when you fail to attribute the whole sentence or commentary then have the audacity to chastise an individual cuz you got lost doesn't seen quite fair, now does it?

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 03-19-2017 at 11:23 AM.
    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  13. #13
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,136
    has anyone harped on the fact that this guy put his gun on the ground and walked away, leaving his gun unprotected?
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

    it's time to tap in to a higher reality; the one you were made for.

  14. #14
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,092
    Either the uniformed cop is a genuine cop or a well accoutrement impostor. Either the recently assumed room temperature citizen was a criminal or a undercover cop. Believe what you will, in that specific incident it seems that the hero citizen did as the uniformed cop ordered/pleaded for him to do. Sounds like a simple decision for that fella...and likely me as well.

    As to dropping his firearm, only he can answer what motivated him to do so.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  15. #15
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,521
    this 2/2/17 cite contains updated info and a twitter photo of the bad guy punching the nice deputy on the ground...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a814a8c0fede

    ipse
    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  16. #16
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,126
    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    has anyone harped on the fact that this guy put his gun on the ground and walked away, leaving his gun unprotected?
    Well after killing the suspect I would imagine that he was in shock, plus the police officer probably took the gun for evidence after getting up from the road.
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    I never referred to you or anyone else as a shoeshine boy... I simply told you to "go get your shine box'. Not a racial statement whatsoever..-snip-
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    -snip- My offer still stands, if you want to do an honest days work, I will send you my antique shine box..

  17. #17
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,136
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Well after killing the suspect I would imagine that he was in shock, plus the police officer probably took the gun for evidence after getting up from the road.
    as seen in the video, the officer stayed on the ground for the entire time, even after more LEOs arrived.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

    it's time to tap in to a higher reality; the one you were made for.

  18. #18
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,126
    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    as seen in the video, the officer stayed on the ground for the entire time, even after more LEOs arrived.
    Most of the videos I saw showed the deputy up on his knees after the shooting, shortly after the man drops the gun. I have not seen a video of the full time afterwards of the deputy staying on the ground. If you have please put a link.
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    I never referred to you or anyone else as a shoeshine boy... I simply told you to "go get your shine box'. Not a racial statement whatsoever..-snip-
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    -snip- My offer still stands, if you want to do an honest days work, I will send you my antique shine box..

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    2,717
    He probably dropped the weapon so that when officers arrived they would not shot him.. Arriving officers may not have known who the bad guys were at that instant..

    My .02
    Ask yourself, Do You Own Yourself?

  20. #20
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,668
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    when you fail to attribute the whole sentence or commentary then have the audacity to chastise an individual cuz you got lost doesn't seen quite fair, now does it?

    ipse
    Sorry, but I don't understand what you are writing here. And who besides "he himself" would be posting from your account? Is not your closing redundant, at best?
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    2,717
    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Sorry, but I don't understand what you are writing here. And who besides "he himself" would be posting from your account? Is not your closing redundant, at best?
    Charles, please answer my query in post #11

    CCJ
    Ask yourself, Do You Own Yourself?

  22. #22
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,136
    Quote Originally Posted by DeSchaine View Post
    Video of the incident has been released.

    http://www.nbc-2.com/story/34846661/...1&sf63606875=1

    Interesting actions by all involved.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Most of the videos I saw showed the deputy up on his knees after the shooting, shortly after the man drops the gun. I have not seen a video of the full time afterwards of the deputy staying on the ground. If you have please put a link.
    this video that was posted above. the cop was on his knees after the shooting for about 30 seconds, then was prostrate on the ground. in the second angle, you can see the gun on the ground next to the tan truck, and someone was standing there...so not only did he drop it on the ground and walk away, he left it next to someone whom he didn't know.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

    it's time to tap in to a higher reality; the one you were made for.

  23. #23
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,668
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Charles, please answer my query in post #11
    Why would you want me to answer that query or otherwise prolong the off topic discussion after you explicitly wrote:

    "...we should probably move forward and debate more important issues"

    But to answer your query, No, I've never heard a police officer yell "freeze" at all. The closest I've come is one time a police officer calmly directed, "Please keep your hands on your wheel where I can see them," after effecting a traffic stop as he walked past my open window to look at the front of the car. He then walked back to my window and said, "We're looking for a vehicle and yours matched it from the rear. But from the front it obviously isn't you. Sorry for the inconvenience. Have a nice day."

    Have you ever heard a police officer yell, "Freeze. Law Enforcement Officer."? How often are you in a situation that police officers are yelling "freeze" to or near you?

    Now, since we are asking each other to answer queries, and since I've been so polite as to answer yours, would you be so polite as to answer my queries in post #10?

    Reciprocation seems only appropriate.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  24. #24
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,126
    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    this video that was posted above. the cop was on his knees after the shooting for about 30 seconds, then was prostrate on the ground. in the second angle, you can see the gun on the ground next to the tan truck, and someone was standing there...so not only did he drop it on the ground and walk away, he left it next to someone whom he didn't know.
    I can't tell from that video, but again the shooter was most likely in shock. He did the right thing IMO, and afterwards I am not going to knock him because he dropped his gun. He might have done that also not to get shot himself by responders. Have you ever been in a shooting resulting in loss of life?
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    I never referred to you or anyone else as a shoeshine boy... I simply told you to "go get your shine box'. Not a racial statement whatsoever..-snip-
    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    -snip- My offer still stands, if you want to do an honest days work, I will send you my antique shine box..

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    nj
    Posts
    2,717
    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    You explicitly asserted that no police officer in NY considers himself a peace officer. What is beyond that to imply? What do you mean to suggest by asserting that no big city police officer considers himself a peace officer? (As assertion I believe is false as I believe I could find a fair number of big city police officers who do consider themselves peace officers.)

    Were I to infer something, you might take offense or claim I was putting words in your mouth.

    Perhaps one ought to either be a bit more explicit, or else leave the implications and innuendo entirely un-written so as to avoid incorrect and potentially offensive inferences from the reader. No?
    I stand by my opinion, no big city police officer considers himself/herself to be a peace officer..

    Charles, we can go around an around on this insignificant detail.. I propose we save our brain power for a more serious topic to debate.
    Always a pleasure opining with you Sir!
    Regards
    CCJ
    Ask yourself, Do You Own Yourself?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •