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Can LEO's offer alternate punishment ?

Grapeshot

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Arrestor, prosecutor, and judge? I see a lot wrong with that.

Wonder how many sit-ups doing 50mph in a 35mph zone is worth? :uhoh:
 

Fallschirjmäger

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http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/1...stead-of-taking-him-to-jail-for-smoking-weed/

Officer makes teen do pushups instead of taking him to jail for smoking weed

I actually see this one cop getting a talking to by his dept.
The legislature never granted him the authority to do what he did.
He should have just let him go.

Nope; Officer Friendly didn't make or coerce the fine, young gentleman to do anything. He was completely within his authority to issue a citation or take little junior straight to the pokey. Instead he OFFERED the young man a chance to avoid a criminal record, which the young man voluntarily accepted (there was no coercion involved, you will note.)

Instead of taking the teen to jail, this police officer decided that it would be better if the kid was punished right then and there, and instead gave the teen a choice. His options were to either do 200 pushups, or get in the patrol car and head down to the station.

Given the opportunity to spend possibly hours in a police station with a resulting criminal record, or be inconvenienced by a little physical exertion.... which would you choose?
 
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Fallschirjmäger

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Arrestor, prosecutor, and judge? I see a lot wrong with that.

Wonder how many sit-ups doing 50mph in a 35mph zone is worth? :uhoh:

Sorry, Grape but you're wrong on this one. The officer did not sentence the young gentleman to do any pushups, he was offered the opportunity to do them OR go to the police station. He (the young man) had sole charge on which way he wanted to proceed.
 

countryclubjoe

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Sorry, Grape but you're wrong on this one. The officer did not sentence the young gentleman to do any pushups, he was offered the opportunity to do them OR go to the police station. He (the young man) had sole charge on which way he wanted to proceed.

may be next time the officer will ask someone to wax his car...
 

Fallschirjmäger

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may be next time the officer will ask someone to wax his car...
Joe, I think you may finally be getting it. An officer is always free to ask; just as you are.
If someone purposely breaks your window you're always free to ask if they'll instead if they'll wax your back for a month instead of being charged with vandalism. There may yet be hope for you.
 

Grapeshot

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Sorry, Grape but you're wrong on this one. The officer did not sentence the young gentleman to do any pushups, he was offered the opportunity to do them OR go to the police station. He (the young man) had sole charge on which way he wanted to proceed.

Offered the opportunity - really? :lol:

Threat, intimidation - some have said a few LEOs have gotten personal, private services that way. I guess those victims were freely making a choice to proceed too.
 

Fallschirjmäger

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Offered the opportunity - really? :lol:

Threat, intimidation - some have said a few LEOs have gotten personal, private services that way. I guess those victims were freely making a choice to proceed too.
Bzzzzzzzt! Flag on the play; logical fallacy of false analogy. In the case you presented the "offer" was for "personal, private services" which is either against state law, or at least department policy and probably both.
Those victims weren't the issue being discussed.


IF we may stick to teh matter at hand, the young man was offered at no cost to him or his dignity a way to avoid a criminal record. There is no reason Officer Friendly HAD to make the offer, he could as easily just handcuffed the young man, searched him, taken him to the police station where he'd have been booked. From there he would have had to raise bail money and likely either have a conviction on his record or pay to have his record expunged if the county solicitor requested noli prosequi for the case.

He was given a break, you shouldn't object to the nice officer doing a nice thing when he Didn't Have To.

edit:
Honestly though, where's the 'coercion'? "Look kid, either do a few push-ups or I'll take you down to the police station, which I could do ANYWAY if I weren't being nice?"
 
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willy1094

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The biggest difference between the last two points is personal gain. I assume the officer did not profit from the pushups. I guess you could say he got an ego boost but I doubt that was truly the goal. It's staggering, I guess, to think there are actually officers out there that think there are better ways to make a point/impact without ruining a man's life. Seems to me this officer was reverting back to the days where a peace officer was looking out for the best interest of the person he was serving.
 

Grapeshot

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Were the young man to have suffered some injury as a result of said exercise, I think the LEO would have had some potential liability.

Further, I suspect that department policy only offers 4 choices: arrest, ticket/summons to appear, warning ticket, and none of the above - send him on his way.

IMO what occurred still constitutes street justice.
 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

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I wouldn't want to live in a country where officers didn't have some discretion on enforcing the laws.

No more equipment or speed warnings all citations no more taking the young lad over to neighbors and say pay for the broken window that happened when your ball came off the bat the wrong way.

The longer I worked the more management tried taking officer discretion away.

A lot had to do with the computerization of the job they wanted data to document every thing. No more verbal warnings.

Hi Joe you have ahead light out get it fixed ok John I'll stop by the parts store and buy one thanks for telling me.

When we went computerized ok but I need to go back enter all your data and print out a warning so the bosses know I actual did something so they can show their bosses they had us doing something.

And if you do not, they see that the officer made a stop but there is no data to go with it they contact the officer and say where the data on this stop you violated policy for not doing it.

And we all know that once the information is in the system it is there forever so a citation for underage drinking could effect you for decades even if you never touched another drop.

I have become a firm believer that minor laws violations should be purged after a certain time period.
 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

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No victim, no crime. Prohibition of any kind creates and sustains all manner of tyranny and evil. Let's eliminate the prohibitions, and concentrate on defending ourselves against real crimes such as assault, theft, murder.

Always sounds good in theory but there are enough people who just do not care about others no matter what that in actual practice the good people end up being hurt.
 

countryclubjoe

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No victim, no crime. Prohibition of any kind creates and sustains all manner of tyranny and evil. Let's eliminate the prohibitions, and concentrate on defending ourselves against real crimes such as assault, theft, murder.

+1-- totally agree however that concept would eliminate many government jobs and power from government.. Judges, lawyers, LEOS, wardens, etc

They would all need to go find a real job, they would rather be tyrants and feed their family from the fruits of other peoples labor..

Petty quasi crimes and so-called violations where no victims exist are "cash cows" for the government..

I think a law should be established that if someone violates their oath to support the constitution and the rights of its citizens, said someone goes to jail. When an oath breaker violates his/her oath there surely is a victim and without punishment to the violator the practice of violating ones oath could lead to many more victims...

My .02
 

Ken56

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The biggest welfare system in the world is........government. I have started telling my nieces and nephews and our friends kids that if they want a really good paying job with security and great bennies go into government in any way shape or form. Forget teaching, social work, and the feel good do good occupations. If you want to make an honest living then go into the trades and actually build things, not everyone can be the engineer, someone has to make the stuff on paper actually work.
 

countryclubjoe

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Culture and society are comprised of individuals and all may be victim. Without culture and society you are all victims of nature's bloody fang and claw. If you don't like the culture and society in which you are embedded, flights to Aleppo or Beijing are cheap.

Running away is the action of a coward and a slave.. Simply because one lives in a social community and by so doing one agrees to social compacts does not mean one should surrender rights for the benefit of said community and compacts..

We may be veering off topic a bit. We can discuss "social contracts" in another thread..

My .02
 

Grapeshot

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Running away is the action of a coward and a slave. --snipped--

Waay to broad a brush stroke.

We are often admonished that running away is better than standing and fighting it out. Survivors make better witnesses - me thinks the physical act of dying is overrated.

The slave who runs away/escapes his master becomes in the doing more free, not less.
 
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