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President Trumps Five Most Likely 2A Reforms

since9

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Reference:

Owens, B. (2016). Five Fast Gun Reforms President Trump Will Sign Into Law. Bearing Arms. Retrieved from: https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

These include (measure: my comments):

1. Ending gun-free zones on military bases: Given the extremely high dollar value of the various assets located on military bases, along with the potential damage even a single bullet can cause, I understand why some bases would need to have large perimeters where no one except military police and authorized military personnel would be able to approach to within firing range of the assets. On the other hand, I swore to support and defend our Constitution, including our Second Amendment's "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed," including allowing everyone with authorized access to the base carry in accordance with our Second Amendment.

So, what's the solution? I think it depends on the asset/resource, but should always involve a perimeter beyond which no one enters without proper authorization. The military never had a problem arming aircrew and letting us carry firearms to/from the flightline when our mission required it. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the DoD allowing people with authorized access to base carrying firearms in accordance with our Second Amendment, provided they don't enter various perimeters without proper authorization.

While he's at it, he should end the ban on firearms at U.S. Post Offices and Postal Service Centers. The greatest danger to both postal workers and customers has historically come from within, rather than outside, and from what I understand, their psychological services have greatly improved.

2. National concealed carry reciprocity: If those who push for this require a national database, then absolutely NOT. Heck, we don't even allow a state database of those who are authorized to carry concealed here in Colorado. That information is kept at the lowest level possible i.e. each county sheriff's office. If for some reason another law enforcement agency needs to verify its authenticity, then they can call the local office and do so, and the phone number is printed right there on the back of the CHP (concealed handgun permit).

In the same vein, other law enforcement agencies outside the state of Colorado can darn well do the same thing. There's absolutely ZERO reason to create any sort of national database of CC permit holders.

In fact, this step wouldn't be necessary if politicians simply followed the Second Amendment and stopped infringing on our right to keep and bear arms.

3. Legalizing silencers: Whether to protect the ears of hunters, enthusiasts at the firing range, improving accuracy by increasing mass and reducing recoil, or law-abiding citizens defending life, limb and property against criminal activity, I'm all for this. Just remember, if passed, most people will still be shooting without silencers at the firing range. That and the fact that these days everyone knows precisely why the ban against silencers was enacted in the first place:

Congressmen made a show of saying that the legislation was needed because of the St Valentine's Day Massacre. But this was mostly a smokescreen for other concerns. The massacre was nothing more than gangsters killing gangsters, and was more or a curiosity than a public concern. It took place four years before Congress reacted.

What Congress was really responding to was concerns by robber barons over the rise of labor unions. In several highly publicized incidents, coal miners had organized and fought back against the armed goons hired to keep them in line. In several of the incidents, the miners had gotten the better of the goons, and mine owners wanted to keep guns (especially military type guns) out of the hands of miners and other organized labor. But they didn't want an outright ban because they also wanted to make sure that their own hired thugs still had access to such weapons.

So Congress passed a law requiring a $200 "tax stamp" for all regulated weapons -- machine guns, short-barreled rifles, short-barreled shotguns, and suppressors, among other devices. The law enabled the very rich to still have access to these weapons, but kept them out of the hands of average Americans.

4. NICS background check reform: The background check system does NOT keep guns out of the hands of criminals. It just flat out doesn't, and all arguments to the contrary admit to self-denial the moment they open their mouths to the contrary. Citations involving, "11,271 criminals applied and were denied the right to purchase a firearm" don't mean squat when they turn around and acuire a firearm illegally a week later. In fact, according to a recent PBS investigation:

An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.

In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales.

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.

Another large source of guns used in crimes are unlicensed street dealers who either get their guns through illegal transactions with licensed dealers, straw purchases, or from gun thefts. These illegal dealers turn around and sell these illegally on the street. An additional way criminals gain access to guns is family and friends, either through sales, theft or as gifts.

Given the above, WHY in the WORLD are we focusing on background checks so much? Apparently, they don't stop squat, except in one critical area, where they might (very slight chance) actually keep a firearm out of the hands of a mental patient. That only works, however, if the patient has already been identified, and in such a way that their rights haven't been jeopardized, that it, the individual really is an imminent threat to self or others.

5. Allow importation of collectible historical firearms: I'm all for it. It was an incredible crying shame when Obama nixed the importation of nearly one million M1 Garands. I agree with Representative Cynthia Lewis, WY, (R): "Legislation shouldn’t even be needed for U.S. citizens to purchase perfectly legal and regulated firearms, especially in this case, with storied, American-made rifles that are pieces of U.S. military history."
 

since9

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Three More Hurdles for Trump

Here's a list of three more things Trump and our conservative Congress need to start working on in the second couple of weeks:

1. Remove the "sporting purpose" clause from Federal Gun Control legislation: Our right to keep and bear arms, fully recognized in our Constitution's Second Amendment, is for any and all purposes, hence the unlimited and non-modifiable "shall not be infringed" clause. Self defence... CHECK. Sporting purposes... CHECK. Advancing on and engaging enemy combatants, including terrorists, on home soil... CHECK. WHATEVER the reason, "shall not be infringed" covers it. FULLY.

2. Repeal the Hughes Amendment: Let's face the facts, people: "Lawfully purchased machine guns are simply not used in crimes, despite there being some 240,000 in existence." They can certainly come in handy if one finds themselves facing a hungry or angry mob hell-bent on doing them harm.

3. Remove short-barreled rifles and "any other weapons" from the National Firearms Act: Both are direct violations of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" clause of our Constitution's Second Amendment. The term "arms" is short for "armaments" as in ALL armaments, not just firearms, and by the very nature of the fact the Second Amendment refused to specify the type, it automatically includes ALL arms (armaments) including knives, swords, spears, axes, and firearms of any barrel length, caliber, and rifling (or lack thereof).
 

utbagpiper

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2. Repeal the Hughes Amendment: Let's face the facts, people: "Lawfully purchased machine guns are simply not used in crimes, despite there being some 240,000 in existence." They can certainly come in handy if one finds themselves facing a hungry or angry mob hell-bent on doing them harm.

Unfortunately, such an effort would dramatically reduce the value of some well-healed gun owners' collections. So we can expect opposition--however out of sight it might be--from some of our own.

Charles
 

since9

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Unfortunately, such an effort would dramatically reduce the value of some well-healed gun owners' collections. So we can expect opposition--however out of sight it might be--from some of our own.

Charles

Too bad. Those collectors undoubtedly knew other weapons were out there, just as they knew that the presence of those other weapons poised a risk to their own collections. Denying access to others is NOT an acceptable risk mitigation technique.

Just because a few people might lose value in their collections is by no means any acceptable justification to deny or disparage i.e. infringe on the rights of the people to keep (own/possess) and bear (carry) arms.
 

utbagpiper

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Too bad. Those collectors undoubtedly knew other weapons were out there, just as they knew that the presence of those other weapons poised a risk to their own collections. Denying access to others is NOT an acceptable risk mitigation technique.

Just because a few people might lose value in their collections is by no means any acceptable justification to deny or disparage i.e. infringe on the rights of the people to keep (own/possess) and bear (carry) arms.

This is all true. But don't expect very many people to stand on principle when doing so will cost them a bunch of money. Know right up front that there will be opposition from "pro-RKBA" people who would take a financial hit if post '84 full autos were made available legally.

Some instructors will oppose constitutional carry for the same reason.

There is often a difference between what is right and the way things are. Recognizing and understanding allows one to deal with it as best possible. Declaring what should be is necessary, but often insufficient.

Charles
 

since9

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This is all true. But don't expect very many people to stand on principle when doing so will cost them a bunch of money.

Well, therein lies a logical fallacy. Unless they're planning on actually liquidating (selling) their collection, it won't cost them a dime. Last time I checked, most gun collectors do just that -- collect. Few of them sell. Furthermore, devalued collections cost less with respect to insurance, and for those who were rich, inheritance taxes.

Know right up front that there will be opposition from "pro-RKBA" people who would take a financial hit if post '84 full autos were made available legally.

Then they're not thinking clearly. Loss of value does not translate into loss of money for the vast majority of collectors. They're making the same mistake with respect to the way they're examining their collections as business managers make with respect to "sunk costs," continuing with a project "because of all the money already spent" when what is spent has zero bearing on whether to continue a project or not.

Finally, this would only result in a correction, followed by a return of value, probably to within a high fraction of the original value. Might take a few years, but it will happen for the simple reason that such firearms aren't unlimited. In fact, the influx of additional numbers can often fuel an increase in demand, resulting in higher values than before. Whether or not that happens depends upon the numbers.

Some instructors will oppose constitutional carry for the same reason.

That's a non-sequitur. Wherever constitutional carry negates a legal requirement to take a firearms safety class, instructors suffer a real loss of financial income. Collectors who have no intention of selling suffer no financial losses. The key here is that value is not synonymous with wealth. For example, if you had gold worth $1,000, and someone figured out a way to transmute gold from water for 1/10th of the price, your gold's worth would then drop to $100. Your disposable income, however, would remain the same. The only way it would impact you monetarily is if you were about to sell your gold for $1,000 to help pay for monthly rent and were then unable to pay the rent.

There is often a difference between what is right and the way things are. Recognizing and understanding allows one to deal with it as best possible. Declaring what should be is necessary, but often insufficient.

Indeed. Economics isn't merely the study of cold numbers, but rather, how and what drives human behavior in changing economic conditions. :)
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Given the above, WHY in the WORLD are we focusing on background checks so much?

The goal has not been crime control the goal always has been reducing the number of firearms owners.

Any thing that make buying or owning a fire arm reduces owner ship one always has to remember that crime is a excuse used by the anti's.

Destroying firearm ownership for everybody is their goal.

Add to that that requiring back ground checks is necessary for firearms registration with out some type of registration confiscation is next to impossible.

Free market sales is a check valve against registration if one can buy and sell your firearms on the free market.
 
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solus

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Given the above, WHY in the WORLD are we focusing on background checks so much?

The goal has not been crime control the goal always has been reducing the number of firearms owners.

Any thing that make buying or owning a fire arm reduces owner ship one always has to remember that crime is a excuse used by the anti's.

Destroying firearm ownership for everybody is their goal.

Add to that that requiring back ground checks is necessary for firearms registration with out some type of registration confiscation is next to impossible.

Free market sales is a check valve against registration if one can buy and sell your firearms on the free market.


FI, you know as well as I, the 'big lie' has been in place for years whose sole purpose was stated in these terms: "the purpose of our legislation/statute/ordinance/ad nauseam is to prevent/stop crime". yet the 'lie' was perpetrated, in some cases, by the criminal(s) themselves to preclude JQPublic from defending themselves from BGuys. we have witnessed first hand the control of firearms has yet to stem the tide in the Windy City from suffering horrific deaths and injuries not to mention the untold grief and sorrow to family and community.

i find it comical in some locales the nice LEs want relief from their local statutes/ordinances which preclude their buying of personal firearms w/o blessing from the chief or representative of the department.

the other big lie ~ war on drugs...just saying

ipse
 

OC4me

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2. Repeal the Hughes Amendment: Let's face the facts, people: "Lawfully purchased machine guns are simply not used in crimes, despite there being some 240,000 in existence." They can certainly come in handy if one finds themselves facing a hungry or angry mob hell-bent on doing them harm.

Simply because collectors would take a hit, and thus oppose such a move, perhaps Post-86 machine gun restrictions could be loosened for museums and for use in bona-fide civilian firearms training facilities, etc. Baby-steps, later drop the Hughes Amendment entirely. Finally repeal the NFA altogether.

The permanent way to kill the NFA, on Second Amendment grounds, would be for some pissed-off State to sue the Federal government because the NFA obviously interferes with every state's self-interest in preserving an independent ability to raise a militia of properly-armed citizens.

Ya, I know, fat chance, but with the proliferation of states passing firearms freedom acts purporting to buck federal gun control on commerce clause grounds, it is not too much of a stretch to imagine a state (Montana are you listening?) doing effectively the same thing using an actual historical Second Amendment argument that the anti's would be hard-pressed to debate (given that the Heller dissent wonderfully spelled out the liberal conviction that Congress is prohibited from disarming state militias who may be relying upon private citizens, bearing their own arms, from which to raise an emergency militia force).

Since militias seem to be dormant, all a state would need to do is affirm in Federal court, that yes indeed, it relies on private ownership of military-style arms by its own citizenry as the mechanism by which that state has chosen to preserve its militia and that the plaintiff before them is exactly one such individual.
 
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jc79

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Reference:
:

1. Ending gun-free zones on military bases: Given the extremely high dollar value of the various assets located on military bases, along with the potential damage even a single bullet can cause, I understand why some bases would need to have large perimeters where no one except military police and authorized military personnel would be able to approach to within firing range of the assets. On the other hand, I swore to support and defend our Constitution, including our Second Amendment's "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed," including allowing everyone with authorized access to the base carry in accordance with our Second Amendment.


While he's at it, he should end the ban on firearms at U.S. Post Offices and Postal Service Centers. The greatest danger to both postal workers and customers has historically come from within, rather than outside, and from what I understand, their psychological services have greatly improved.


With military bases, the high value asset stuff is not a big issue. Many of these "high dollar assets" are deployed in areas where sandstorms, hurricanes/typhoons, terrorists, assorted bad guys, ect are present. Also downrange where everyone is armed proves that it isn't' much of an issue.

I agree with the post office. The whole banning firearms from the post office is a holdover from the 1800s when bandits robbed stage coaches carrying mail. It isn't the 1880s anymore and the post office is no different from any other generic retail-like shop.
 
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Maverick9

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IMO, if they're going to do background checks, and they already are, for firearm or defensive handgun use, possession, carry, then anyone who HAS passed one every five years should be accorded VERY SPECIAL status and privilege and be given VERY calm and even deferential treatment by LE.

It should be a CRIME for a LEO or LE to harass, aggress against such individuals without due cause, specifically finding them engaged in an active felony and NO OTHER reason. It should be a crime to make a LAC with a permit (which is usually know by the LEO in a car stop) to make the person disarm, get out of the car, be put at gun point EXCEPT if they are actively involved in a felony.

It should be a crime which is actively pursued by an outside agency and not just LE review or internal corps, and the officer could be severely reprimanded the first time but suspended the second time and then jailed any other times. IANAL, so this is just a rough idea.

It should be an arrestible crime to assault or A&B any LAC just due to the purpose of aggressing against a person who the LEO thinks is co-opting his privilege of being armed or appears to be because they have no cause. It should be a crime to report or transmit or leak CC permit information to other agencies or across state lines.

There should be incentives not to be aggressive against LAC with permits (or any other LAC), and reporting fellow officers who do so should be incentivized.

And, so on. We've tried asking nicely. Now it's time to arrest LE who does this.
 

hammer6

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IMO, if they're going to do background checks, and they already are, for firearm or defensive handgun use, possession, carry, then anyone who HAS passed one every five years should be accorded VERY SPECIAL status and privilege and be given VERY calm and even deferential treatment by LE.

It should be a CRIME for a LEO or LE to harass, aggress against such individuals without due cause, specifically finding them engaged in an active felony and NO OTHER reason. It should be a crime to make a LAC with a permit (which is usually know by the LEO in a car stop) to make the person disarm, get out of the car, be put at gun point EXCEPT if they are actively involved in a felony.

It should be a crime which is actively pursued by an outside agency and not just LE review or internal corps, and the officer could be severely reprimanded the first time but suspended the second time and then jailed any other times. IANAL, so this is just a rough idea.

It should be an arrestible crime to assault or A&B any LAC just due to the purpose of aggressing against a person who the LEO thinks is co-opting his privilege of being armed or appears to be because they have no cause. It should be a crime to report or transmit or leak CC permit information to other agencies or across state lines.

There should be incentives not to be aggressive against LAC with permits (or any other LAC), and reporting fellow officers who do so should be incentivized.

And, so on. We've tried asking nicely. Now it's time to arrest LE who does this.



good luck with that.


the sheeple see that badge and think "S" on the chest. they worship them as superhuman.
 

since9

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With military bases, the high value asset stuff is not a big issue. Many of these "high dollar assets" are deployed in areas where sandstorms, hurricanes/typhoons, terrorists, assorted bad guys, ect are present. Also downrange where everyone is armed proves that it isn't' much of an issue.

Not true. It's a big enough issue that rather large perimeters are established around these high dollar assets when they are deployed in potentially hostile territory.

Sandstorms don't hurt aircraft.

Hurricanes and typhoons do, and aircraft are flown out of harms way before they arrive.

Terrorists and assorted bad guys are dealt with via the rather large perimeters, border security, area security, and authorizing the use of deadly force against anyone caught where they're not supposed to be.

"Where everyone is armed" only includes our own forces, at least within those very large perimeters surrounding our high dollar assets.

How do I know this? Because I used to fly our high dollar assets in the sandbox, the Balkans, and a number of other hotspots around the world. That's how.

I agree with the post office. The whole banning firearms from the post office is a holdover from the 1800s when bandits robbed stage coaches carrying mail. It isn't the 1880s anymore and the post office is no different from any other generic retail-like shop.

Do you mean that you agree with post office banning firearms on their premises? Or that you agree with respecting the "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" clause of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution?
 

hammer6

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Not true. It's a big enough issue that rather large perimeters are established around these high dollar assets when they are deployed in potentially hostile territory.

Sandstorms don't hurt aircraft.

Hurricanes and typhoons do, and aircraft are flown out of harms way before they arrive.

Terrorists and assorted bad guys are dealt with via the rather large perimeters, border security, area security, and authorizing the use of deadly force against anyone caught where they're not supposed to be.

"Where everyone is armed" only includes our own forces, at least within those very large perimeters surrounding our high dollar assets.

How do I know this? Because I used to fly our high dollar assets in the sandbox, the Balkans, and a number of other hotspots around the world. That's how.



Do you mean that you agree with post office banning firearms on their premises? Or that you agree with respecting the "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" clause of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution?


what federal law prohibits lawful carry of firearms in post offices?
 

solus

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what federal law prohibits lawful carry of firearms in post offices?

http://www.reuters.com/article/usa-postoffice-guns-decision-idUSL1N0ZC2QF20150626

for your reading pleasure...

A federal appeals court said a U.S. Postal Service regulation banning firearms on postal property is constitutional, and reversed a lower court ruling that would have let people keep weapons inside their vehicles in post office parking lots.

§ 232.1 Conduct on postal property.
(l)Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/39/232.1

ipse
 
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jc79

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Do you mean that you agree with post office banning firearms on their premises? Or that you agree with respecting the "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" clause of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution?

I agree with allowing concealed and open carry in post offices. As my first post stated, the post office's ban on weapons is an old holdover law from the 1800s, which is no longer relevant today and should be repealed.
 

hammer6

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http://www.reuters.com/article/usa-postoffice-guns-decision-idUSL1N0ZC2QF20150626

for your reading pleasure...

A federal appeals court said a U.S. Postal Service regulation banning firearms on postal property is constitutional, and reversed a lower court ruling that would have let people keep weapons inside their vehicles in post office parking lots.

§ 232.1 Conduct on postal property.
(l)Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/39/232.1

ipse

so what happens when federal law conflicts with federal law?
 

solus

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lol.

so which law do we follow? the one that says lawful purpose can't be restricted, or the one that restricts it?

a. win lottery
b. exhibit firearm on post office property
c. spend lottery winning defending yourself

toss coin on outcome!

ipse
 
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