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How do we implement the 2nd Amendment?

Wstar425

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
570
Location
Tomahawk and Abbotsford, Wi.
You do understand that Illinois only did that to comply with a Federal court ruling that mandated that they do it? If the Illinois state government was not forced by the Federal court to enact government permission allowed conceal carry, they never would have.

The way I understand it the ONLY reason Illinois even has Conceal carry is because otherwise they were going to get stuck with open carry. SOME kind of carry is required. So, they made it as tedious, complicated, expensive, difficult, and drawn out as possible. Fighting, kicking, scratching and biting every step of the way, to drag each step out as long as absolutely possible. So, now they can say it IS POSSIBLE to get a CC in Illinois.
Not easy, but possible. Not a fan.
 
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cjohnson44546

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2013
Messages
188
Location
Memphis, TN
You can be in the right, and they can still kill you... and with the propaganda networks make the rest of the country think you were the bad guy... pick your battles.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
It will be a very, very cold day in hell before the Federal government allows the citizens to legally keep and bear arms under the conditions set forth in the Second Amendment.

guess you better go surrender your legally kept firearms to the feds then, eh?

ipse
 

mikeyb

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
554
Location
Bothell
The best way I've found to implement the 2nd Amendment on a regular basis is to be aware of all rules/regulations regarding where you are allowed to carry.

A right not exercised is a right lost.

Salient point #1 happened because salient point #2 didn't.

And then Scalia had to go and interpret things wrongly.

We have the right (and duty) to defend ourselves. We are all the first responder to threats. Police are second responders. In situations where we cannot adequately defend ourselves, we have to allow this responsibility (the act, not the duty) to appropriate law enforcement agencies. It's just that we've been crappy at creating accountable agencies. TSA, for example. The American people have abdicated this responsibility instead of outsourced it. And the same with elected officials.
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
The problem is simply that most Americans even in 21st century America, have no idea what their rights are or why the government exist..
Most are familiar with their right to free speech however they probably don't know what amendment grants that right, they probably know they have a right to remain silent because they have been watching law and order for the last 20 years..

Ignorance by the people is governments strength. Concerning the 2A, it actually no longer exist has we know of it.. It is now a privilege not a right..

Rights cannot be licensed or taxed, or granted via a government agency however try applying for a concealed carry permit, the jumping thru the hoops process makes the applicant a slave to his/her government agent hence no right, just a privilege..

Depending on different statistics, guns and automobiles kill the same number of folks each year, however I can walk into a car dealership at noon and leave with a lethal weapon ( automobile) by 1 PM.. Guns, cars, trucks, all property that we have a right to purchase and contract thereof, however purchasing the gun and walking out the store with said gun requires one to submit to long evil back round checks along with surrendering ones "privacy".. Again, not a right, it is now a government issued privilege similar to a " drivers license"..

Folks simply out of ignorance or fear surrender rights in the name of public safety.. Public safety is a term used by tyrants to slowly turn rights into privileges, and ignorance is their best weapon..

Arguing the 2A in the courts will not prevail, we need patriots well versed in Natural Law to defend our God- given natural right to protect ourselves and our family and property from those that wish to harm us and our property.

We have a duty to our creator to protect and defend what said creator created.. It is a sacred rule of religion and a moral duty to protect that which our creator gifted to us.. Natural law, God's laws, existed long before our Constitution..

Ignorance of rights will lead to enslavement.. In the words of James Madison, " Disarm the people, that is the best and most effective way to enslave them''..

" There is only one good, knowledge, and only one evil.., Ignorance.". Socrates

" A free people claim their rights, as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their magistrates".. Mr. Thomas Jefferson

My .02
Regards
CCJ
 
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countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
"And again, the possession of goods is not enough; there must also be a right use of them which can only be given by knowledge: in themselves they are neither good nor evil--knowledge and wisdom are the only good, and ignorance and folly the only evil. The conclusion is that we must get 'wisdom.' But can wisdom be taught? 'Yes,' says Cleinias. The ingenuousness of the youth delights Socrates, who is at once relieved from the necessity of discussing one of his great puzzles. 'Since wisdom is the only good, he must become a philosopher, or lover of wisdom.' 'That I will,' says Cleinias."

Unfortunately in 21st century America, there are so few lovers of wisdom.

My .02
 
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Ajetpilot

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
1,416
Location
Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
The Bill of Rights does not grant rights. The Bill of Rights is supposed to protect preexisting rights from government infringement. The rights protected by the Bill of Rights are natural rights that have always existed.
(SNIP)
The Bill of Rights is a declaration of just some of the "certain unalienable Rights" that Governments are instituted to secure - not to infringe upon. Our governments have long since been destructive to these ends. The Bill of Rights do not grant these rights -these rights were endowed upon us by our Creator.

Truth!
 

Robin47

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
545
Location
Susanville, California, USA
I'll bite. Which amendment grants the right of free speech? The Bill of Rights does not grant rights. The Bill of Rights is supposed to protect preexisting rights from government infringement. The rights protected by the Bill of Rights are natural rights that have always existed.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

The Bill of Rights is a declaration of just some of the "certain unalienable Rights" that Governments are instituted to secure - not to infringe upon. Our governments have long since been destructive to these ends. The Bill of Rights do not grant these rights - these rights were endowed upon us by our Creator.

Right on Navy, I also was Navy, in Nam. Anyway it is a God given Duty to be armed Luke 22:36 Jesus said if you don't have a sword sell your garment and buy one.
So its a believers DUTY to be armed, thats also in the first amendment, Religious freedom, AND the free exersize there of :)
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
I'll bite. Which amendment grants the right of free speech? The Bill of Rights does not grant rights. The Bill of Rights is supposed to protect preexisting rights from government infringement. The rights protected by the Bill of Rights are natural rights that have always existed.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

The Bill of Rights is a declaration of just some of the "certain unalienable Rights" that Governments are instituted to secure - not to infringe upon. Our governments have long since been destructive to these ends. The Bill of Rights do not grant these rights - these rights were endowed upon us by our Creator.

+1 Sir, obviously you are not counted among those Americans that I reference in my post about not knowing their rights.. Your knowledge is indeed your armor.
Regards
CCJ
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Right on Navy, I also was Navy, in Nam. Anyway it is a God given Duty to be armed Luke 22:36 Jesus said if you don't have a sword sell your garment and buy one.
So its a believers DUTY to be armed, thats also in the first amendment, Religious freedom, AND the free exersize there of :)

so let's once again stop the mythical religious BS on the swords...
quote:
Matt. 10:34, in context he (Jesus) does not mean a physical sword that cuts up and bloodies the family, but a spiritual and moral one that may divide it up nonphysically. And it is precisely Luke who clarifies Jesus’ meaning of "sword" as nonliteral, in the two parallel passages of Matt. 10:34 and Luke 12:51. If Luke does this in 12:51, then why would he not shift slightly the meaning of "sword" in 22:36-38? unquote

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/luke_22_36.htm

ipse
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
If we believe that the " creator" created us, then surely we owe said creator the duty to protect what he/she created.. And any in difference to said protect of that creation is a violation of the creator..

We have a duty to our creator to protect what said creator created... We owe no allegiance to a man made government, our allegiance is to the universal constitution signed by the creator..

My .02

CCJ
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
if one engages the literal translation of the founding father's and others, e.g., Locke's meaning(s) in defining those documents and writings as we discuss them, then one must also indulge in engaging in responsible translation of those ancient tomes and their literal meaning(s).


ipse
 
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countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
if one engages the literal translation of the founding father's and others, e.g., Locke's meaning(s) in defining those documents and writings as we discuss them, then one must also indulge in engaging in responsible translation of those ancient tomes and their literal meaning(s).


ipse

+1-- However in 21st century America, natural rights bestowed by the creator seem to disappear under the guise of " public safety" and court " activism".

In a detailed study of this country's most important/memorable court cases, the jurist rarely rely on Natural law/God given law.. They interpret the constitution without regard for natural law. Hence the reason why the 9th amendment is not so often cited in 20th or 21st century jurisprudence...

I propose a deeper study of the 9th amendment, an amendment that while only 226 years old, seems to articulate and encapsulate the true meaning of natural law and natural rights.. A study of which is a true defense against government intrusion and over reach..

My .02
Regards
CCJ
 

mikeyb

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
554
Location
Bothell
so let's once again stop the mythical religious BS on the swords...
quote:
Matt. 10:34, in context he (Jesus) does not mean a physical sword that cuts up and bloodies the family, but a spiritual and moral one that may divide it up nonphysically. And it is precisely Luke who clarifies Jesus’ meaning of "sword" as nonliteral, in the two parallel passages of Matt. 10:34 and Luke 12:51. If Luke does this in 12:51, then why would he not shift slightly the meaning of "sword" in 22:36-38? unquote

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/luke_22_36.htm

ipse


Wait, what? Did you even read that link? The disciples had real swords, not metaphorical ones. Peter cut the ear off of one of the soldiers. The Bible speaks of two types of swords.

Furthermore, being armed was biblical before the New Testament:
Nehimiah 4:17
They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Rights cannot be licensed or taxed, or granted via a government agency however try applying for a concealed carry permit, the jumping thru the hoops process makes the applicant a slave to his/her government agent hence no right, just a privilege..

I forget which book mentioned this. I have this vague idea it was a book by Kenneth Royce, pen name Boston T. Party.

Lets talk about something called allodial title. The root, alod, appears in Magna Carta. Latin or Anglo-Saxon (I forget) for "set apart".

Whoever wrote the book, it raised a massively interesting point for me.

Gentle reader, do you pay property taxes? Do you know we can trace the idea of property taxes to the exact SOB who started that ball rolling in English history? William the Conqueror. After killing the King of England, King Harold, formerly the Earl of Wessex, at the Battle of Hastings, William the Conqueror claimed every square inch of dirt in England as his personal property.

He gave a good bit of that land to his French cronies. You see, entire swathes of the English nobility died at the Battle of Hastings; so, there was a lot of land with no lords. William had to fill those vacancies. But, William kept a hook. He "granted" (since he was the "owner") land "rights" to his cronies. That is to say, he told his cronies, "OK, I name you Earl of Clarendon. You may use the land as though you own it. But, I still own it." And, of course, he charged "fees" to those cronies.

The English king prior to Harold, Edward the Confessor, never claimed to own every stitch of dirt in England. Harold made no such claim. English kings, prior to William, while capable of some really startling brutality, never claimed to personally own every stitch of land in the country. That was Williams angle. If he "owned" all the land, he could charge "fees" against the people using the land.

Now, lets talk about allodial tile. Earlier, I mentioned that alod means "set apart". Set apart from what? The tax scheme.

According to whichever book piqued my intense interest, there are parcels of property in England that cannot be taxed. The owners own them outright, totally, and completely. No hook. Apparently, some few scraps of land in Texas fell through the cracks during the revolution (Davy Crockett and Sam Houston), and are not subject to property tax, either. And, (this is very interesting) in Nevada in the last few years the state government has been offering allodial title to land. You have to pay some huge property tax up front--years worth of property tax--but then you get full, complete ownership of the ground--and no more taxes.

Yep, the whole scheme is premised on the idea that government somehow has an actual ownership interest in the land under our homes. Even though we worked and worked and worked to earn the purchase price, not the government.

Now, just a few questions to prompt thought:

Exactly what was the rational basis for William the Conqueror's claim to own all the land in England? Does it not sound like, "I got the swords, so I own it. Anybody want to dispute it?"

Do we not all have a right to own the things we own? Where does the government get its "right" to partly own the land our home is built on? Government never paid for it. Government is not part-owner of my home. So, where does government get the right to charge me a fee against the dirt? Much less the structure (home) built on it. I've never seen a government agent swinging a hammer to knock together a house.

What is the difference between government's claim today to have the legitimate power to tax your property and William's claim that he owned all the dirt in England? No, really. I am asking a serious question. What is the difference in underlying rationale? "We gots the force. You shut up and pay."

The 9th Amendment guarantees rights not enumerated. Property rights and economic rights (the right to use your earnings to buy stuff--including property) are not enumerated. But, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Just more rights we need to wrest from government. More rights we shouldn't have to even ask for, much less fight for.
 
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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Wait, what? Did you even read that link? The disciples had real swords, not metaphorical ones. Peter cut the ear off of one of the soldiers. The Bible speaks of two types of swords.

Furthermore, being armed was biblical before the New Testament:
Nehimiah 4:17

first, please articulate what was the tenor in the city prior and during the reemergence of the individual(s) during this particular Passover ~ before the arrest, trial, culminating in a crucifixion?

second, it was the servant of the high priest not a soldier ~ Malchus

third, Jesus is documented as immediately stated, 'Put your sword away....'

fourth, if the individual(s) in the party engaged in a full blown fight, Jesus knew his efforts to push his religion would be for naught as the entire party would be arrested, tried, and possibly crucified.

reference KJVersion John 18.

ipse
 
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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Yesterday, Sunday, I noticed that the brightest items in the stained glass illuminating our atlar were Christ's Halo and the Centurion's eyes. When I imagine myself at the Crucifixion, I am the Centurion.

solipsist:
noun
1. Philosophy. the theory that only the self exists, or can be proved to exist.
2. extreme preoccupation with and indulgence of one's feelings, desires, etc.; egoistic self-absorption.

fascinating...

ipse
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
I forget which book mentioned this. I have this vague idea it was a book by Kenneth Royce, pen name Boston T. Party.

Lets talk about something called allodial title. The root, alod, appears in Magna Carta. Latin or Anglo-Saxon (I forget) for "set apart".

Whoever wrote the book, it raised a massively interesting point for me.

Gentle reader, do you pay property taxes? Do you know we can trace the idea of property taxes to the exact SOB who started that ball rolling in English history? William the Conqueror. After killing the King of England, King Harold, formerly the Earl of Wessex, at the Battle of Hastings, William the Conqueror claimed every square inch of dirt in England as his personal property.

He gave a good bit of that land to his French cronies. You see, entire swathes of the English nobility died at the Battle of Hastings; so, there was a lot of land with no lords. William had to fill those vacancies. But, William kept a hook. He "granted" (since he was the "owner") land "rights" to his cronies. That is to say, he told his cronies, "OK, I name you Earl of Clarendon. You may use the land as though you own it. But, I still own it." And, of course, he charged "fees" to those cronies.

The English king prior to Harold, Edward the Confessor, never claimed to own every stitch of dirt in England. Harold made no such claim. English kings, prior to William, while capable of some really startling brutality, never claimed to personally own every stitch of land in the country. That was Williams angle. If he "owned" all the land, he could charge "fees" against the people using the land.

Now, lets talk about allodial tile. Earlier, I mentioned that alod means "set apart". Set apart from what? The tax scheme.

According to whichever book piqued my intense interest, there are parcels of property in England that cannot be taxed. The owners own them outright, totally, and completely. No hook. Apparently, some few scraps of land in Texas fell through the cracks during the revolution (Davy Crockett and Sam Houston), and are not subject to property tax, either. And, (this is very interesting) in Nevada in the last few years the state government has been offering allodial title to land. You have to pay some huge property tax up front--years worth of property tax--but then you get full, complete ownership of the ground--and no more taxes.

Yep, the whole scheme is premised on the idea that government somehow has an actual ownership interest in the land under our homes. Even though we worked and worked and worked to earn the purchase price, not the government.

Now, just a few questions to prompt thought:

Exactly what was the rational basis for William the Conqueror's claim to own all the land in England? Does it not sound like, "I got the swords, so I own it. Anybody want to dispute it?"

Do we not all have a right to own the things we own? Where does the government get its "right" to partly own the land our home is built on? Government never paid for it. Government is not part-owner of my home. So, where does government get the right to charge me a fee against the dirt? Much less the structure (home) built on it. I've never seen a government agent swinging a hammer to knock together a house.

What is the difference between government's claim today to have the legitimate power to tax your property and William's claim that he owned all the dirt in England? No, really. I am asking a serious question. What is the difference in underlying rationale? "We gots the force. You shut up and pay."

The 9th Amendment guarantees rights not enumerated. Property rights and economic rights (the right to use your earnings to buy stuff--including property) are not enumerated. But, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Just more rights we need to wrest from government. More rights we shouldn't have to even ask for, much less fight for.

Indeed, keep in mind that any property OWNED that could be taxed or forfeiture and taken away via the G, is not really yours..
My .02
CCJ
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
RCW 81.12.020:

RCW 82.12.020
Use tax imposed.
(1) There is levied and collected from every person in this state a tax or excise for the privilege of using within this state as a consumer any:
(a) Article of tangible personal property acquired by the user in any manner, including tangible personal property acquired at a casual or isolated sale, and including by-products used by the manufacturer thereof, except as otherwise provided in this chapter, irrespective of whether the article or similar articles are manufactured or are available for purchase within this state;
(b) Prewritten computer software, regardless of the method of delivery, but excluding prewritten computer software that is either provided free of charge or is provided for temporary use in viewing information, or both;
(c) Services defined as a retail sale in *RCW 82.04.050 (2) (a) or (g) or (6)(b), excluding services defined as a retail sale in *RCW 82.04.050(6)(b) that are provided free of charge;
(d) Extended warranty; or
(e)(i) Digital good, digital code, or digital automated service, including the use of any services provided by a seller exclusively in connection with digital goods, digital codes, or digital automated services, whether or not a separate charge is made for such services.

Hence we own NOTHING...
 
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