University of Louisville Open Carry/Firearm Education Walk

From the Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/events/362742174119586/

Note that this is a **FRIDAY** event - March 31, 2017.

If you've attended a prior University Walk (in Ohio), this one will be the same, but **different**. In KY, unlike Ohio, universities can establish their own firearms policies - so they have of course perpetuated victim zones. Therefore we'll be on public sidewalks on the edge of campus.

Long guns are welcome **with slings and proper muzzle control**, as well as pistols, and *if your organization endorses the Walk*, feel free to pass out literature.

More info to follow, including parking & lunch details.

For those not familiar with OC University Walks...

As posted to the Facebook event page "About" section: https://www.facebook.com/events/362742174119586/


What is this? Why is this being done? Read below for answers to those questions and more!

>> Note that this is a **FRIDAY** event - March 31, 2017. <<


WHAT IS THIS?

In Kentucky, like Ohio, concealed carry on campus is not allowed by any college or university. Unlike in Kentucky, in Ohio the OPEN CARRY of firearms is allowed on *public* university/college **grounds**.

I very much want to have campus carry, and to encourage dialogue (direct & indirect) on that subject. I also want to spark dialogue on the subjects of gun rights & gun privileges. One way to do so is to conduct open carry Walks, like those I've lead at six Ohio public universities. I've also conducted open carry events at other venues for other purposes.

At university Walks, longarms (**with slings & proper muzzle control**) and/or sidearms are openly carried by participants.

A bunch of friendly looking, armed people generally get questioned - and dialogue begins.

I endorse specific safety procedures (for obvious reasons) and what some have called a "dress code" to disallow the **biased media** from using any of their favorite stereotypes as a way to diminish the aims of the event or the people involved in it.


WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?

Well, last year a bill was proposed which would have allowed both K-12 carry and campus carry. I looked into conducting a Walk at UL, where I know a few students, but the bill ended up going nowhere. There didn't seem to be much interest in a Walk either.

This year, Republicans took both houses of the KY legislature, as well as the governorship. A gun rights lover's dream, right? WRONG.

A few days ago I was contacted by a student at UL about conducting the Walk that I had looked into last year - so this Walk was born!


WHAT DO YOU I HAVE TO DO? (asks a potential Walk participant)

1) Spread the word about this Walk
2) Get a sling for your longarm, if you intend to bring it
3) Be prepared to engage in CIVIL DIALOGUE with interested/inquisitive people
4) DO NOT prepare to engage in unproductive "my stats vs your stats" conversations/arguments
5) Look at the event pages of prior university Walks I've conducted (links below)
6) Ask questions, if you have them, in the Discussion portion of this event
7) SHOW UP!


** In recognition that this is a educational, interactive, *public relations* walk, please leave “Don’t Tread on Me!”, “From My Cold Dead Hands!”, "3%", etc. flags/clothing, camo, grungy clothes, and signage at home. **

The purpose of the Walk is to inform and engage college students and the public about the right to keep and bear arms, including discussing how those rights are diminished by various laws - for instance, by making college campuses Criminal Empowerment Zones.

>> Parking and eating arrangements are being worked on. <<

If you're available, and depending on the level of interaction with students & others, Walk participants will get together afterwards for discussion and fellowship.

If you've not done anything like this before, you simply MUST come! ;-)

If you've not attended a prior Walk, take a look at the links below. There are **videotapes** of portions of every walk except the initial walk (at the University of Cincinnati) - but UC Walk page has tons of discussion and conversation.

Feel free to ask questions, and I hope to see you there.

LINKS to prior Walks:

https://www.facebook.com/events/1247404035357994/
No More Sitting Ducks!” (OSU Open Carry/Firearm Education Walk) – December 5, 2016

https://www.facebook.com/events/152845551786509/
Kent State Open Carry/Firearm Education Walk - September 24, 2016

https://www.facebook.com/events/1701346233480167/
Miami University Open Carry/Firearm Education Walk (includes a video) – April 30, 2016 (Oxford, Ohio)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDadC5l3OSU MU video

https://www.facebook.com/events/545388728974115/
Bowling Green State University Open Carry/Firearm Education Walk (includes a video) – April 16, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm9LfgsyefM&feature=youtu.be BGSU video

https://www.facebook.com/events/1592187871040889/
University of Akron Open Carry/Firearm Education Walk (includes a video) - April 25, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W_2XaaAaXk&feature=youtu.be UA video

https://www.facebook.com/events/375006232642421
Ohio State University (Columbus) Open Carry/Firearm Education Walk (includes a video) – April 19, 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ojQTROOo9Y OSU video

https://www.facebook.com/events/269922139835838
(University of Cincinnati) Cincinnati Open Carry//Firearm Education Walk - April 12, 2014

**** This Walk is NOT sponsored, endorsed, sanctioned, etc. by the University of Louisville, or any gun rights or campus carry group *unless specifically stated or advertised*. ****

As a cosponsor of this event and a current student at the University of Louisville, I urge you to come support us on March 31. Our campus is crazy dangerous and violent crimes occur on or in the immediate vicinity of campus all the time. We, as students, need the ability to protect ourselves as Campus Police are unable to respond in numbers necessary to prevent said crimes and our campus "Blue Button" security system doesn't work (Its the biggest inside joke at the University). So please consider attending and showing your support for my and my fellow students rights.

Thank You.

Another co-sponsor and UL student here. I encourage everyone who can to make this walk. I've open carried around campus and never had any problems. Only issue if a non-student carried on campus property is they'd be asked to leave, it's not a crime.

Is the open carrying of a handgun on the University of Louisville campus legally permissible?

KRS 164.974(1) says "The governing boards of public institutions of postsecondary education, each having the power and authority to govern and control the method and purpose of use of property owned or occupied by their respective institution...." Courts recognized the authority of a public university to control the use of its property. See Mitchell v. University of Kentucky, 366 SW 3d 895, 898-99 (Ky Supreme Court 2012) and O'Leary v. Commonwealth, 441 S.W.2d 150, 156-57 (Ky. 1969).

KRS 164.001(4) defines "Board" or "governing board" to mean “the board of trustees for the University of Kentucky or the University of Louisville....” So, we know by statute that a “Board” of trustees run the University of Louisville.

KRS 65.870(1) says “No existing or future...board...or any person acting under the authority of any of these organizations may occupy any part of the field of regulation of the...carrying, storage, or transportation of firearms, ammunition, components of firearms, components of ammunition, firearms accessories, or combination thereof.” (Emphasis added.)

KRS 65.870(2) says “Any existing or future ordinance, executive order, administrative regulation, policy, procedure, rule, or any other form of executive or legislative action in violation of this section or the spirit thereof is hereby declared null, void, and unenforceable.”

"When the words of the statute are clear and unambiguous and express the legislative intent, there is no room for construction or interpretation and the statute must be given its effect as written." See McCracken County Fiscal Court v. Graves, 885 S.W.2d 307, 309(Ky.1994) (quoting Lincoln County Fiscal Court v. Dep't of Public Advocacy, 794S.W.2d 162, 163 (Ky.1990)); see also Griffin v. City of Bowling Green, 458 S.W.2d 456,457 (Ky. 1970).

The words of KRS 65.870 are clear and unambiguous. It forbids a public organization, such as a university, from prohibiting the open carrying of firearms on campus unless some statute specifically prohibits it. And there can be no other reasonable interpretation of the statutory language.

KRS 237.110 authorizes the issuance of, and establishes standards for, concealed carry licenses. KRS 237.115 concerns the construction of KRS 237.110. It states, in relevant part: “Except as provided in KRS 527.020, nothing contained in KRS 237.110 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the right of a college, university, or any postsecondary education facility, including technical schools and community colleges, to control the possession of deadly weapons on any property owned or controlled by them....” (Emphasis added.)

Thus, under KRS 237.115(1) universities, including U of L, have an implicit right to control the possession of deadly weapons on property under their control. But this right is qualified by KRS 65.870. Chapter 237 specifically addresses the licensing of the privilege to carry concealed “deadly weapons.” However, KRS 237.115(3) says “Unless otherwise specifically provided by the Kentucky Revised Statutes or applicable federal law, no criminal penalty shall attach to carrying a concealed firearm or other deadly weapon with a permit at any location at which an unconcealed firearm or other deadly weapon may be constitutionally carried.” Not even trespass.

So, where in the Kentucky Revised Statutes does it specifically say that the open carrying of a firearm is illegal on the University of Louisville campus? It doesn't, not that I can find. It should be noted that “Handgun,” “Firearm” and “Deadly weapon” by operation of law are generally synonymous. See KRS 237.060 and KRS 500.080(4)(b). But, KRS 500.080(4) in defining “Deadly weapon” defines more than just a firearm. See KRS 237.115(3) - “firearm or other deadly weapon” and “unconcealed firearm or other deadly weapon.” In other words, other than unconcealed firearms can the University of Louisville regulate the carrying certain deadly weapons on their campus? Yes they can, weapons of mass destruction, any knife other than an ordinary pocket knife or hunting knife, billy clubs and blackjacks or slapjacks to name a few.

So, we are back to the question; is the open carrying of a handgun on the University of Louisville campus legally permissible? KRS 65.870(1) says only the Commonwealth can regulate where and how firearms can be carried. And KRS 237.115(3) says “Unless otherwise specifically provided by the Kentucky Revised Statutes...no criminal penalty shall attach to carrying a concealed firearm or other deadly weapon with a permit at any location at which an unconcealed firearm or other deadly weapon may be constitutionally carried.” The way I see it open carrying of handguns on U of L campus is perfectly legal.

I just wanted to comment on one small point you made, gutshot: The notion that a taxpaying citizen has no business being on publicly funded university property: Maybe someone wants to look at the artwork on the grounds, or go inside to observe a particular class they might be interested in for one of several different reasons. I can think of others but you get my point.

A couple things to clarify on this settled matter.

The public IS allowed on the university grounds, though the university has the power to exclude people as they see fit. The libraries and exercise facilities are open to the public (though the gyms you pay for, I think). Moms Demand Action was on campus passing out fliers, though they did need to get permission. But to just walk around or use the libraries? Nope, I've had a UL library account since high school. Don't forget the Speed Art museum. And non-students can use the pool there in the summer during non-sports training hours, again for a fee.

As for guns being legal on campus, I met with the Dean of Students, who has the final say on interpreting the code of conduct, and the UL chief of police, who has consulted their attorney at Ogden on the matter, and yes, guns on campus are legal. I've had reports from the library workers that sometime members of the public will OC into the library and be asked to leave. Can't confirm this though. Regardless if it was illegal, even mistakenly in their eyes, the numerous folks I know to have been caught with a firearm on campus would have been expelled, and not currently be students that I see on campus regularly. They officially treat guns on campus like they do any other prohibitory policy (yes including their no-smoking policy, I explicitly compared the two policy enforcements). They conceded, that a student could have an AR in the classroom, and because it is not illegal their police should not be harrassing the student and instead the professor should be the one reporting/enforcing policy violation.

There is also a distinction between a school and a post-secondary school.

Currently with an interim board and president, and the entire UofL school in a state of administrative and financial chaos, changes to the policy are slim-to-none.

Folks on campus are split between anti-gun, pro-gun, and don't-care pretty evenly it seems. It WAS rather satisfying to watch Moms Demand Action utterly fail in getting any significant interest from passing students while I got 100 signatures supporting campus carry in the same time frame.

This walk will be a good thing. Several of my law school classmates are excited about it. Several UL students are wanting to participate in it.

gutshot said:

I don't think that just anybody is allowed to stroll in and out of classes to observe, but if you can convince the friendly officer that your presence is legitimate, you might be allowed to stay. Public colleges and universities have never been a place for the gathering of the general public. That is the function of a public park or public restroom, not a university. Public museums are where the general public can view art, and even there, there are strict rules to protect the valuable works of art. You might be allowed to view a piece of art on a university campus, with permission. If you put on a letter sweater and a beanie you might slip by. As I said in my original post, "Good luck, I wish you well", but I don't think it will lead to anything good for you.

Click to expand...

Hey there gutshot. You remember me from the walk at Miami University? BB62 has heard me say this before, but given the context of our discussion here, allow me to state for the record: Years ago as a college age guy, Oxford Ohio was a great little road trip for me, to, uh, enjoy the scenery. Thirty five years later I drive through on the way to a nearby monthly pistol match, always hoping it happens to be "Students' moms campus visit weekend". Geez I'm getting old.

But seriously, I do know business people who visit campuses to monitor classes being taught in their field of endeavor from time to time. Whether they always go through channels to get permission, I don't know. And especially on some of the older campuses, there are wonderful buildings that many find worth an up close look see. I mean, come on, they're publicly funded and run to some extent, that means our tax dollars keep them afloat.

Okay, enough sidebar from me. Getting these colleges to see the light about firearms is a heavy legal lift almost everyplace, isn't it?

"Free" "speech" at the University of Louisville

As part of my intial notice to UL, I told the campus authorities the following:

- Walk participants possessing actual firearms will remain off campus on public rights-of-way (streets and sidewalks),...

- Walk participants possessing “blue guns” (blue or orange plastic guns) will come on campus.


The General Counsel’s designate, the Associate General Counsel, didn’t like the idea, and in a series of back and forth e-mails she linked to the campus “Speech and Distribution of Literature” policy as well as the “Deadly Weapons” policy.

http://louisville.edu/dos/communitypolicies/speech-and-distribution-of-literature

https://sharepoint.louisville.edu/s...tePages/Business Services/Deadly Weapons.aspx

In her latest e-mail she said the following:

“…If you intend to come into campus brandishing a "blue gun" or replica weapon, in an exercise of speech, you will need to follow the procedures outlined in the University's Speech and Distribution of Literature policy. Thank you for your attention to this issue.”

My reply to the Associate General Counsel

Ms. Shoemaker,

“Brandishing”? Clearly you have a gift for exaggeration. I’m glad that you’ve apparently dropped your ludicrous assertion that a “blue gun” is a deadly weapon under KY law, however. (but just in case I’ve included a screen cap of your deadly weapons policy, which nowhere mentions such things)

No, I don’t believe in registering or getting approval to exercise the right of free speech, which at UL is apparently “free” “speech”, so consider this e-mail my notice of cancellation of my effort to have Walk participants possessing “blue guns” (blue or orange plastic guns) come on campus.

However, one of my UL student friends, xxx xxxx, has offered to show me UL’s campus before or after the Walk, and I’ve decided to take him up on his offer.

Hopefully you don’t have Fashion Police to go with your KRS 164.955 Campus Police, but since UL apparently is so concerned with peaceful visitors on its campus, I feel compelled to let you know what I’ll be wearing:

- a pink “pus sy" hat
- a “Socialism SUCKS” T-shirt from Turning Point USA (with which I have no affiliation)
- a rosary with attached crucifix around my neck
- on my right hip, a retention holstered plastic “blue gun” (which is actually orange)
- on my left hip, a holstered, penis-shaped vibrator (with batteries removed, so the non-deadly, non-weapon isn’t “loaded”)

My UL student friend may also be wearing one or more of the above items.

In order that I not engage in unacceptable “speech” on campus, please let me know if I’m allowed to vocalize words like “Hi” or “Hello”, to inquisitive students and others, as well as engage in consensual conversations.

I await your reply.


Cordially,
me

I love how every single one of their policies on "speech" violates the first amendment. The sad thing is its the same at every "institution of higher indoctrination" across the country.

BB62 said:

Ms. Shoemaker,
SNIP
Hopefully you don’t have Fashion Police to go with your KRS 164.955 Campus Police, but since UL apparently is so concerned with peaceful visitors on its campus, I feel compelled to let you know what I’ll be wearing:

- a pink “pus sy" hat
- a “Socialism SUCKS” T-shirt from Turning Point USA (with which I have no affiliation)
- a rosary with attached crucifix around my neck
- on my right hip, a retention holstered plastic “blue gun” (which is actually orange)
- on my left hip, a holstered, penis-shaped vibrator (with batteries removed, so the non-deadly, non-weapon isn’t “loaded”)

My UL student friend may also be wearing one or more of the above items.

In order that I not engage in unacceptable “speech” on campus, please let me know if I’m allowed to vocalize words like “Hi” or “Hello”, to inquisitive students and others, as well as engage in consensual conversations.

I await your reply.


Cordially,
me

Click to expand...

Well, I am certainly happy to see that you have become less provocative in your "old age", BB62. LOL My oh, my.

deepdiver said:

Well, I am certainly happy to see that you have become less provocative in your "old age", BB62. LOL My oh, my.

Click to expand...

Hehe

Well, as you might suspect, there's more to the story.

gutshot said:

Louisville Courier Journal article about the UofL walk:

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2017/03/27/u-l-prepares-open-carry-gun-rally-friday/99682614/

Click to expand...

I went around and around with the reporter about the use of the word "rally" <sigh>. Well, at least he didn't call it a "march"!

Lots of action on the LCJ's Facebook page, and I've been called today by two TV reporters.

Assembly point location, Walk time, parking info

I've been remiss about posting these essential details here, figuring that people would go to Facebook for more detailed information. However, Gutshot informed me that he had received questions and couldn't find an easy answer, so here goes:

WALK TIME: 11:30AM - 4PM

>> PARKING & ASSEMBLY POINT INFO <<

** Assembly point: ** SE (southeast) corner of 3rd & W. Cardinal Blvd.

** Parking: ** Since UL has apparently decided that they'd prefer to have openly armed people come from all points of the compass, rather than suggesting that everyone park in a central location like the Floyd Street parking garage...
On-street parking is available in various places around campus, mostly north of campus, subject to permit possession or "no parking between the times of" limitations. The further away from campus, the less restrictions.
Also, a shop owner in the Central Station shopping area @ Central Station Blvd & S. 2nd Street has no objection to Walk participants parking there. Please park away from the business storefronts, however.

Finally, there is a park west of the south end of campus, but parking is limited to two hours.

ARMED STUDENTS: **park off-campus, and remain off-campus with your firearm(s).**


If you're familiar with the area, or have something to add about parking, feel free to post it.

We're going to play it by ear as far as where we'll go from the assembly point, but this map shows the public rights-of-way in the vicinity of campus:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...&ll=38.21023114583636,-85.75869530344238&z=16

>> AFTER-WALK REPORT <<

As posted to the Facebook event page:

Wow!

By my count at least 30 people eventually came, more than half of whom were students, faculty or staff members. THANK YOU. Special thanks to Greg Haas and his wife, who drove **five hours** from Akron, Ohio in order to attend. Wow again.

Thanks also to all who contributed to the civil discussions and sharing of knowledge on this event page. Your efforts were greatly appreciated.

This was the first out-of-state University Walk I've organized, and the first which involved local students who assisted with key parts of the Walk and also acted as local hosts. They were UL students Ilya Chernyavskiy and Aaron Spalding. Aaron and Ilya made lunch arrangements, evaluated parking options, superbly "marketed" the Walk to their fellow students, and made themselves available as additional media contacts. Their subject and local knowledge was evident in multiple interviews. Impressive.

Based on conversations I had, and informal comments I heard, the Walk was a key element in prompting discussion of campus carry among students and faculty. I'm sure Ilya and Aaron will offer more detail on that subject.
It needs to be noted and recognized that both Ilya and Aaron have already made extensive attempts to move campus carry and discussion of campus carry forward at UL, but despite their considerable efforts, UL seems determined to keep its head in the sand on the subject.

To date, and to my knowledge, and despite the fact that UL could **allow campus carry** under conditions of its choosing, UL has made **no attempt** to evaluate how campus carry works in the states where it's mandatory at public institutions.
NO - rather than engage in critical thinking and evaluation of its institutional biases, it's just simpler to keep the status quo: UL maintains its authority, and accepts no responsibility for denying students their choice of legal defensive tools; to, from and on campus.

Going forward, I have a sneaking suspicion that Aaron and Ilya want to organize, or play other roles in bringing Walks such as this to other Kentucky campuses. Time will tell.

** To that end, please friend one or all of us so that you can be notified of other open carry Walks. **

Final turnout was 30+.

About 20 of us are pictured here, but there were a few stragglers at this point, and at least 10 more students, faculty, and staff, arrived later.

"News" stories with varying degrees of accuracy, including one that is chock full of opinion.

http://www.courier-journal.com/stor...y-near-university-louisville-friday/99861432/

http://www.courier-journal.com/vide...nceal-and-carry-advocates-march-u-l/99883672/

http://www.courier-journal.com/pict...m-education-walk-near-u-of-l-campus/99887842/

http://www.wdrb.com/story/35044328/open-carry-walk-sparks-gun-rights-discussion-at-u-of-l

http://www.whas11.com/news/local/group-walks-with-guns-near-campus-to-change-uofl-policy/427364942

http://www.louisvillecardinal.com/2017/03/students-concerned-open-carry-gun-walk/

http://www.courier-journal.com/stor...students-just-dont-mix-joseph-gerth/99866088/