citizens allowed to have a state ID AND state DL?

solus · May 23, 2017

ok, have hung around here reading threads and books where citizens leave their DL in their vehicles and OC at will with a state ID on their person.

so with applicable documents firmly in hand, went to NC state licensing office to obtain a state ID. the nice lady screening inbound nicely stated, well if we give you a state ID your DL will be voided. HUH?

reviewing the NC dept of DOT: https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/driver/id/ i do not see any type of statement stating it is either or document.

https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/fees/ NC DOT policy: Any resident of North Carolina can be issued a special identification card provided he or she does not have a valid driver license.

Article 2B.
Special Identification Cards for Nonoperators.
§ 20-37.7. Special identification card

(d) Expiration and Fee.--A special identification card issued to a person for the first time under this section expires when a drivers license issued on the same day to that person would expire. A special identification card renewed under this section expires when a drivers license renewed by the card holder on the same day would expire. - http://codes.findlaw.com/nc/chapter...gen-st-sect-20-37-7.html#sthash.ej4LNe8y.dpuf

i'm confused...thoughts...

ipse

Fallschirjmäger · May 24, 2017

I've always recommended either carrying a passport or a passport card as neither one has a home address (except in pencil on the passport, I believe). I'd like to see Officer Friendly claim it's not 'official enough'.

countryclubjoe · May 24, 2017

solus said:
ok, have hung around here reading threads and books where citizens leave their DL in their vehicles and OC at will with a state ID on their person.

so with applicable documents firmly in hand, went to NC state licensing office to obtain a state ID. the nice lady screening inbound nicely stated, well if we give you a state ID your DL will be voided. HUH?

reviewing the NC dept of DOT: https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/driver/id/ i do not see any type of statement stating it is either or document.

https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/fees/ NC DOT policy: Any resident of North Carolina can be issued a special identification card provided he or she does not have a valid driver license.

Article 2B.
Special Identification Cards for Nonoperators.
§ 20-37.7. Special identification card

(d) Expiration and Fee.--A special identification card issued to a person for the first time under this section expires when a drivers license issued on the same day to that person would expire. A special identification card renewed under this section expires when a drivers license renewed by the card holder on the same day would expire. - http://codes.findlaw.com/nc/chapter...gen-st-sect-20-37-7.html#sthash.ej4LNe8y.dpuf

i'm confused...thoughts...

ipse

Simply no rhyme or reason to the stupidity and the de facto rules and regulation of the revenue generating DMV..
I trust you were not given a logical explanation from the bureaucrats therein.
My .02
Regards
CCJ

Firearms Iinstuctor · May 24, 2017

countryclubjoe said:
Simply no rhyme or reason to the stupidity and the de facto rules and regulation of the revenue generating DMV..
I trust you were not given a logical explanation from the bureaucrats therein.
My .02
Regards
CCJ

There is plenty of reasons one just have to research them and go back to when they were originally adopted.

With the advent of computers many of them are not necessary any more but bureaucrats are slow to change.

solus · May 24, 2017

thanks for the comments as it seems my quest for the qrail was misplaced as i searched in the land of 'sug & hon' state!

tip of the hat to the august member from GA for pointing out what it is i think i want to satisfy my itch!!

so today's sojourn shall take me, unarmed, to the P. O. in the impoverished county seat of Wayne county NC to see if they 1) know any thing about said PPC. 2) process said documents for said PPC. 3) all without calling me, sug or hon...

first to the puter to ready up on the item in question.

again thanks, it is appreciated...

ipse

btw fallschirnjager, the offer to share a cup of java or lite bite is on the table sometime Saturday late morn or early afternoon if interested.

solus · May 24, 2017

HUZZAH

truly appreciate and please accept my sincere thanks for the exemplary guidance...

sat down typed in what i thought i needed, appropriate form information completed using adobe prefill forms, checks written, fotos taken, olde documents put in trackable USPS express mail and personally handed to my exemplary postal carrier.

renewed my partner's book and asked for a card, while early for renewal for me do so anyway and asked for a card.

all done w/o a 'sug or 'hon' being uttered...done!

again appreciate

ipse

after thought...truly surprised that this country's states have not grasped onto this additional profit center revenue as the Feds have...$30/card & $110/book.

shhhhh let's not tell them...

357SigFan · May 25, 2017

FWIW, in Missouri, you can have a drivers license and a non-driver ID at the same time, no problem. Until the MO Sheriffs took over issuing the CCW IDs, MO DOR issued them either on your DL or on a non-driver ID. I, like a lot of people, had my CCW on a non-driver ID, so if I was out of state (and not carrying), I give my DL and there's no reference to CCW. Now, the issuing agency (in my case, county PD), prints a CCW ID, so no more DOR involvement.

since9 · May 26, 2017

I know many here vehemently refuse the idea of a national ID card. Ok, whatever.

Here's why I support it:

1. Assuming they limited the information to your photo, your full name, and a long, yet unique national ID alphanumeric number (and both 1D and 2D barcode of ONLY name and ID alphanum) -- no repeats, not in 2017, not in 4158, and yes one can use it for anything they darn well please, no restrictions like you SSN, it would never be enough information for criminals to ever use against you.

2. It would be designed to be used by all local/city/county/state/governments for any and all purposes, but at no time would anyone be authorized to take it out of your hand unless you were being processed into an official government detention facility.

3. Here are some of the many ways it could be used:

a. You arrive at a bar, the bouncer verifies you're the person in the picture, you swipe your card, the system queries the public database providing your photo ID, your name, and the alphanum ID, along with a "Pass" or "Fail" depending on whether your birth date was before or after their criteria to meet age requirements. Your actual birthdate is never provided to the bar.

b. You file your taxes using your alphanum ID and no other personally identifying information via the IRS' vastly simplified (let's dream...) online system. You verify your identify by providing a PIN unique to the IRS. You can use one PIN for everything, or have a unique PIN for every entity with whom you do business. That PIN is never revealed to any entity. The ID's chip itself processes the PIN and encrypted information supplied by the system into encrypted authentication verified or denied by the government system.

c. And so on.

In all transactions, no personally identifiable information other than your photo, your full name, and your public alphanum ID are ever seen, displayed or kept. No PIN, SSN, birthdate, or any other information about you is ever shared. In all circumstances, all that's transmitted is a query/criteria request, and the government simply responds with a "pass" or "fail," never the actual information. Queries can be combination, but are limited in scope based upon the entity. For example. an FBO might query the FAA: "Is 2nH6sJ2b9 a single engine land private pilot with an instrument rating and is his medical certification a third-class and is it current?" That's an English language version of an SQL statement. If all were true, the FAA would respond, "Pass," at which point they could rent you an airplane. Another query might be, "Was kks86Gt3jl" born on or before May 26, 1996," but the birth date in the government system says they were born on May 31, 1996," so the system returns a "Fail," at which point the bouncer says, "I'm sorry, but I can't let you in. You're not old enough."

Here's the one I like best: "Is 2nH6sJ2b9 an American citizen?" at which point the response is "Fail" and the machine refuses to record your vote.

since9 · May 26, 2017

NavyLCDR said:
In Washington State, and probably most other states, an active duty military member can have a state ID card based upon their orders, and retain their driver's license from their home of record state.

When I was in, I was told many times, "best two out of three," (DL, vehicle registration, home of record) but that was incorrect. I finally discovered the regulation, which specifically stated several things. The first was that for active duty military members, the vehicle registration must be in the same state as the driver's license. The second is that the home of record did not matter. The third was that one needed to follow state law with respect to state tax filing requirements. The fourth was one needed to follow state law with respect to having multiple ID's (not just DL's) from multiple states.

For example, at one point I had TX plates and registration, a TX DL, but a WA CCP, and was perfectly legal from TX, WA, and DoD requirements.

Several years ago I went to my local DOL to get a Washington State ID card and the person(s) at the counter tried to tell my that my Wyoming driver's license would become invalid if I obtained a Washington state ID card. I politely replied that they were mistaken, and even so they had duly advised me and please issue me the Washington state ID card. I followed up with an email to the state DOL in Olympia who confirmed my answer that both my Washington State ID card would be valid, as well as my Wyoming drivers license based upon my home of record and that they would issue a memo to my local DOL to correct their lack of knowledge of the Washington Administrative Code. I returned to the local DOL a week later to ask if they had received the memo to which I received a very short, curt and terse reply of yes, they had received it.

The Washington Administrative Code limits Washington ID Card issuance to those who do not desire to have a Washington Driver's License, so you cannot have both the WA ID Card and WA Driver's License. However, the WAC also states that active duty military members and immediate families are not required to obtain a WA Driver's License and their home state DL remains valid. Both of those WACs together allow military members to have a WA ID Card and home state Driver's License at the same time.

Most states (probably all, by now) require you to surrender your previous state's DL (or state ID card, and most (all?) states say you can't have both) before they will issue you a state DL or ID (and you can't have both).

When my ex-wife applied for her CPL, the counter person at the Sherrif's office tried to tell her that she had to switch her driver's license to WA. I told that counter person they were mistaken, and followed that up with an email to the Sheriff with the applicable WAC attached. He said I was right and he would train his counter employee.

That is true. In most states (all states, as I think this is a federal mandate), members of the military need not have a DL from the state in which one is currently living in order to obtain a CCP from that state.

solus · May 26, 2017

since9 said:
I know many here vehemently refuse the idea of a national ID card. Ok, whatever.

snip...QUOTE]

well, since9, guess if you wouldn't put members on ignore you might have already learned US citizens already have a national ID card for their use in this country...

and no not, going to waste my time repeating myself cuz you boneheaded to still have me on ignore.

ladies and gentlemen, as i have previously stated, no matter your personal feelings towards someone, you just might miss a nugget of useful information ~ here is a prime example.

aren't you glad our founding fathers didn't have the 'ignore' capability!!

ipse

since9 · May 28, 2017

NavyLCDR said:
I know for certain that part is false, at least in Washington state. The vehicle registration is not required to match the driver's license in Washington. When you register your vehicle in Washington there is a block to enter you Washington State Driver's License number. Then there are also choices as to why you don't have a Washington state driver's license, and one of the choices is military with an out of state driver's license.

My experience occurred in 1991, and remained valid through 1994, when I last lived in Washington.

golddigger14s · May 29, 2017

Some of the above thing stated for ID purposes may be correct. Although they may not hold valid for gun purchase. For example (I'm only speaking for WA state) a soldier may use a copy of their orders, and mil ID to buy a gun if they live on post. If they live off post they most provide a document from an official govt entity showing their address.

golddigger14s · May 29, 2017

NavyLCDR said:
The last time I purchased a handgun from a WA FFL about 6 months ago I used my Military ID as the identification document, and vehicle registration as the address document, because I didn't have a copy of my orders on me at the time. They would not accept a WA CPL as the address document which seems wrong. What's really stupid about that is that the address document requires no verification of address. When you register a vehicle you just write in your address on the form.

The reason a CPL is not accepted as an address document is because you don't need to update the address until you renew. DL, and car registration needs to be updated (at least online) within 10 days.

"Things to know
You have 10 days after you move to change your address on your driver license or ID card.
There’s no cost to update your address. There is an additional fee for getting a new card with your updated address on it.
Updating your address on your driver license doesn’t change your address on your vehicle. You’ll need to do that separately.
If you want to see what addresses we have on file, log in or sign up for a License eXpress account."

https://www.google.com/search?q=Thi...t.&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

since9 · Jun 1, 2017

golddigger14s said:
The reason a CPL is not accepted as an address document is because you don't need to update the address until you renew.

Depends upon the state. Here in Colorado, for example, you must give notification within 30 days. Specifically:

Colorado Revised Statute 18-12-210
Within 30 days after a permittee changes the address specified on his or her permit, the permittee shall notify the El Paso County Sheriff’s Office, in writing, of the change of address. A change of address form is located on the El Paso County Sheriff’s Office website. Failure to notify the Sheriff’s Office is a class 1 petty offense.

countryclubjoe · Jun 1, 2017

since9 said:
Depends upon the state. Here in Colorado, for example, you must give notification within 30 days. Specifically:

Colorado Revised Statute 18-12-210
Within 30 days after a permittee changes the address specified on his or her permit, the permittee shall notify the El Paso County Sheriff’s Office, in writing, of the change of address. A change of address form is located on the El Paso County Sheriff’s Office website. Failure to notify the Sheriff’s Office is a class 1 petty offense.

A class 1 petty offense, for not informing the Sheriff's office of a new address... WOW-- Clear violation of privacy, however sheep shall be sheep.

Does the sheriff make known his/her current address?..

My .02
CCJ

since9 · Jun 2, 2017

countryclubjoe said:
A class 1 petty offense...

What the heck difference does that make, CCJ? Another individual said, "a CPL is not accepted as an address document is because you don't need to update the address until you renew," but I cited the statute where it says you do. Now you're trying to obfuscate the issue with some red herring about knowing the sheriff's address? That has absolutely nothing to do with my comment. You're merely arguing for the sake of arguing.

I don't engage in discussion for the sake of discussing. I do it for "education and edification." Don't get me wrong - I don't mind shooting the breeze every once in a while, been that has a purpose. It's not meaningless, random, scattered red-herring-laden argument.

citizens allowed to have a state ID AND state DL?

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