Concealed Carry Arguments and Assumptions

JTHunter said:

As one poster said something about switching fro OC to CC, how many of us use the same gun for both? A 4" barrelled revolver isn't easy to hide, esp. not IWB. To CC, I'd prefer to switch to my .380 where we again run into my mobility problems with my joints.

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All depends on the weather or what one is wearing. And time you can have a outer covering garment one could easily hide it. I carried one Concealed for years.

True if one is down to a tucked in shirt and pants it can be a lot harder.

A suit makes concealing guns easy or cooler weather where on wears a warmer outer garment.

On Sunday I wear a suit and tie and carry my SR1911 and the only ones that know are the little old ladies that get a hug.

So far they all have said I so glad you are carrying.

The pastor and other know and carry also.

Firearms Iinstuctor said:

All depends on the weather or what one is wearing. And time you can have a outer covering garment one could easily hide it. I carried one Concealed for years.

True if one is down to a tucked in shirt and pants it can be a lot harder.

A suit makes concealing guns easy or cooler weather where on wears a warmer outer garment.

On Sunday I wear a suit and tie and carry my SR1911 and the only ones that know are the little old ladies that get a hug.

So far they all have said I so glad you are carrying.

The pastor and other know and carry also.

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My pastor has never had a problem with it. One of the libtards in a Bible study I was attending went bat-s*** crazy.

I ran into her in the grocery store yesterday, where she was talking to someone in the store, and said, "Hi, Darla!" before passing by.*

Her eyes grew wide and after I ordered some sliced turkey at the Deli, I turned around and she'd fled.

*Not her actual name.

Should have invited her to the range.

Firearms Iinstuctor said:

Should have invited her to the range.

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Would she have become a free range chicken then?

Grapeshot said:

Would she have become a free range chicken then?

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one can never be sure what bird well do when left out of it's pen.

since9 said:

My pastor has never had a problem with it. One of the libtards in a Bible study I was attending went bat-s*** crazy.

I ran into her in the grocery store yesterday, where she was talking to someone in the store, and said, "Hi, Darla!" before passing by.*

Her eyes grew wide and after I ordered some sliced turkey at the Deli, I turned around and she'd fled.

*Not her actual name.

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That processed turkey meat ain't so good for you.....

color of law said:

That processed turkey meat ain't so good for you.....

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Thanks. I agree with you. The stuff I buy isn't processed, unless you count "cut and compacted" as being "processed." No dyes, fillers, or preservatives. It's more expensive, but worth it.

Even so, I do prefer whole roasted chickens.

Or turkeys!

Firearms Iinstuctor said:

Should have invited her to the range.

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I'm sure I wouldn't have trusted her at the range. She wasn't exactly what I call "stable." She was into divination (Bible says that's a big, fat no-no), and she was often wrong (which tells me whatever her source, it wasn't God).

What if her "god" told her to start shooting at the other shooters on the range? I didn't want to have a Kyle incident.

ETA: Changed the wording slightly. The original was confusing.

I think one only needs to open your NRA or other gun/SD related magazine to the real life stories. I've been reading them for over 40 years. But, I have yet to read a story where a legal OC carrier was forced to use their firearm for SD. I'm sure there are a few out there. But, go looking for them and you see hundreds of CC'ers being forced into a SD situation where they had to use their firearm in some way.

The problem with proving anything to a die hard CC'er about the benefits of OC as a deterrent is the virtual impossibility of accurate statistics is that most people who OC will never know when a BG decides to pass them by for an easier target. However, in the states where OC has been legal for any length of time, the sheer vast amount of recorded SD situations where a CC'er was targeted versus the near total absence where an OC'er was victimized, should speak volumes to any intelligent minded individual.


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Nightmare said:

And that is why South Carolina (where I lived for thirty years, worked, raised a family, retired, and worked on the Law Abiding Citizens Self-Defense Act of 1996) will never have regular Open Carry until the NRA hegemony is broken. The NRA business model is P4P.

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I know.
It's also a shame so many CWP instructors here that proclaim they support the 2nd so strongly will argue with you like a full blown anti when you try to talk about Constitutional Carry. They don't understand that OC/Constitutional carry will probably help their business and not hurt it. But, they have the same blind mindset as the AG's do- the only thing they see is wild west shoot outs in the street. (Totally boggles my mind on how blind people are.)

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tcox4freedom said:

I know.
It's also a shame so many CWP instructors here that proclaim they support the 2nd so strongly will argue with you like a full blown anti when you try to talk about Constitutional Carry. They don't understand that OC/Constitutional carry will probably help their business and not hurt it. But, they have the same blind mindset as the AG's do- the only thing they see is wild west shoot outs in the street. (Totally boggles my mind on how blind people are.)

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Blind people own and carry guns too. I support that.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28587041

tcox4freedom said:

I think one only needs to open your NRA or other gun/SD related magazine to the real life stories. I've been reading them for over 40 years. But, I have yet to read a story where a legal OC carrier was forced to use their firearm for SD. I'm sure there are a few out there.

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I'm fairly certain I read of at least two such stories back in 2009. I might be wrong.

But, go looking for them and you see hundreds of CC'ers being forced into a SD situation where they had to use their firearm in some way.

The problem with proving anything to a die hard CC'er about the benefits of OC as a deterrent is the virtual impossibility of accurate statistics is that most people who OC will never know when a BG decides to pass them by for an easier target.

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Not at all. It's merely a matter of creating a table with what information we do have, noting the absences, and solving for those. In some cases we may have too many absences to recreate a specific piece of information, but we won't know until we've gone through the exercise.

Working on it.. (I have to go help troubleshoot my ex's coolant problem).

CJ4wd said:

Keeping things in the OC/CC frame of mind, something comes to mind.
Would it be fair to say that the majority of burglars and muggers are cowards? Think about it.
They prefer to either catch us by surprise or work in our homes when we aren't there, right? Burglars in particular, seem to avoid confrontations if possible.
If this is the case, then wouldn't the "deterrent effect" of OC be the reason attacks on OCers are not accosted more frequently? The perps, seeing us armed, would look for easier pickings. This is analogous to a herd of sheep that are protected by a sheepdog vs. the herd that isn't. Which herd will the predators (coyote, cougar, wolf) hit the hardest?
With CC, there is no "fear factor" to warn them off of us. Then WE have to bide our time and hope for an opening to pull our SD weapon. And THAT may not happen.

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Without question. Been pointed out repeatedly.

The following is a personal perspective... an opinion if you will...

I am not a sheep for I do not mill around with the flock with my attention on fitting in with the flock.

I am not a wolf for I do not prey on the sheep.

I am not a sheepdog for I do not have the responsibility or desire to control or protect the sheep... nor do I have any wish to fight the wolf.

The word "wolf" is an accurate term for predatory criminals so I have no problem with that term.

I am a stray dog... I am warily friendly to the sheep and I avoid the wolf as I fend for myself yet I will fiercely fight to protect those I love... from both wolf and sheep.

That said... I don't like using the word "sheep" because it is derogatory to people who need to be educated that they too can defend themselves from the "wolf".

And the word "sheepdog" sounds so noble and nice... to be someone who protects the weak and innocent... but honestly look at what a "sheepdog" actually does with the "sheep" entrusted to it... it is the "sheepdogs" job to control the sheep in return for the illusion of the flock being protected while the dog's master does other, more important, things.

My job is to maintain control of my own ability to protect myself and those I care about... and in order to do that I carry a gun. I might come to the aid of an innocent person because my morals and ethics require helping those in danger but carrying a gun does not make it my job to help others... therefor as a private citizen I am not now, never have been, and never will be a "sheepdog".

Bikenut said:

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That said... I don't like using the word "sheep" because it is derogatory to people who need to be educated that they too can defend themselves from the "wolf".

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To be sure some folks need educating. I submit that many, if not all, in the anti-gun crowd choose not to defend themselves because government is there to protect them...what do we pay taxes for? The danger for every day carry is the FUDD. They are more than willing to vote for any manner of prior restraint on our 2A right. As long as they can take that deer or duck during the season they will accept any manner of prior restraint.

Bikenut said:

That said... I don't like using the word "sheep" because it is derogatory to people who need to be educated that they too can defend themselves from the "wolf".

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OC for ME said:

To be sure some folks need educating. I submit that many, if not all, in the anti-gun crowd choose not to defend themselves because government is there to protect them...what do we pay taxes for? The danger for every day carry is the FUDD. They are more than willing to vote for any manner of prior restraint on our 2A right. As long as they can take that deer or duck during the season they will accept any manner of prior restraint.

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Okay Bikenut, you have a point there. See the alternative below.

And OC, while some might accept that "education", there are many that will reject it at all costs. In that light, would it be fair to call people such as that "martyrs"? After all, they appear to be willing to give up their lives for their ideals which is one of the definitions of a martyr.

CJ4wd said:

Originally Posted by Bikenut

That said... I don't like using the word "sheep" because it is derogatory to people who need to be educated that they too can defend themselves from the "wolf".

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Originally Posted by OC for ME

To be sure some folks need educating. I submit that many, if not all, in the anti-gun crowd choose not to defend themselves because government is there to protect them...what do we pay taxes for? The danger for every day carry is the FUDD. They are more than willing to vote for any manner of prior restraint on our 2A right. As long as they can take that deer or duck during the season they will accept any manner of prior restraint.

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Okay Bikenut, you have a point there. See the alternative below.

And OC, while some might accept that "education", there are many that will reject it at all costs. In that light, would it be fair to call people such as that "martyrs"? After all, they appear to be willing to give up their lives for their ideals which is one of the definitions of a martyr.

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Good grief! There is no way an anti gun idiot who is unwilling to accept factual education could be equated with a martyr. Closed minded fool maybe but certainly not martyr.

I find the idea of attempting to elevate anti gun attitudes and/or a person's unwillingness to be responsible for their own safety into martyrdom distasteful.

Bikenut said:

Good grief! There is no way an anti gun idiot who is unwilling to accept factual education could be equated with a martyr. Closed minded fool maybe but certainly not martyr.

I find the idea of attempting to elevate anti gun attitudes and/or a person's unwillingness to be responsible for their own safety into martyrdom distasteful.

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I agree.

They are more like the lemmings mythical behavior than they would care to admit.
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=56

Hmmm - maybe that's it. We call them lemmings!

No - NO - NO! You misunderstood me! I wasn't claiming that WE see them as martyrs, but they would see THEMSELVES as martyrs for holding to their misguided beliefs!
Personally, I would look upon these poor lunatics as just that - lunatics. Any lifeform, from human on down, MUST have some form of "self-preservation" built into their basic structure. Otherwise, they don't survive to breed and replenish the population.
Hence, the euphemistically-called "Darwin Award".