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Open Carry Card left at McCalls Restaurant

Chad Thompson

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Jun 21, 2017
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Benson
Lannie, one of the Clayton PD Officers found your card left at McCalls and forwarded it to me. I wanted to let you know that point # 5 is WRONG and is a felony in North Carolina. The only citizens who are allowed to possess a HANDGUN (no other firearm) in a locked container on educational property are ones who possess a valid CCH permit. Intentionally bringing a firearm onto educational property is felonious and Open Carry on educational property is absolutely illegal in our State. Even with a valid CCH permit, citizens cannot possess any other type of firearm other than a handgun and private educational property can still be posted, making any firearm illegal on the property. I just don't want our citizens getting into trouble and especially don't want them losing their gun rights. If you or any other members have any questions feel free to contact me here or at the North Carolina Justice Academy. Thanks.
 

WalkingWolf

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North Carolina
Old generic way of saying concealed carry handgun.

But that is not the correct government reference to the permit. I can understand the common citizen making that mistake, not a person responsible for something so important in government. I thought maybe it was some secret government permit in a hidden statute.

Plus the statute states that is is a misdemeanor if the person is not a student.
 
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JoeSparky

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Might be nice or even helpful if the point #5 on the card is quoted so those interested can do a fair compare/contrast with the posted law/exceptions ect.

FWIW, per my read of the linked/copied and pasted law--- all knowing COP was wrong, and a handgun in a locked container in a locked vehicle operated by one with a permit IS FULLY LEGAL. See parts copied directly from the provided law.....

(k) The provisions of this section shall not apply to a person who has a concealed handgun permit that is valid under Article 54B of this Chapter, or who is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to that Article, if any of the following conditions are met:
(1) The person has a handgun in a closed compartment or container within the person's locked vehicle or in a locked container securely affixed to the person's vehicle and only unlocks the vehicle to enter or exit the vehicle while the firearm remains in the closed compartment at all times and immediately locks the vehicle following the entrance or exit.
(2) The person has a handgun concealed on the person and the person remains in the locked vehicle and only unlocks the vehicle to allow the entrance or exit of another person.
(3) The person is within a locked vehicle and removes the handgun from concealment only for the amount of time reasonably necessary to do either of the following:
a. Move the handgun from concealment on the person to a closed compartment or container within the vehicle.
b. Move the handgun from within a closed compartment or container within the vehicle to concealment on the person.
(l) It is an affirmative defense to a prosecution under subsection (b) or (f) of this section that the person was authorized to have a concealed handgun in a locked vehicle pursuant to subsection (k) of this section and removed the handgun from the vehicle only in response to a threatening situation in which deadly force was justified pursuant to G.S. 14-51.3. (1971, c. 241, ss. 1, 2; c. 1224; 1991, c. 622, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 164; c. 558, s. 1; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 14, s. 4(a), (b); 1995, c. 49, s. 1; 1997-238, s. 2; 1999-211, s. 1; 1999-257, s. 3, 3.1; 2003-217, s. 1; 2004-198, ss. 1, 2, 3; 2006-264, s. 31; 2007-427, s. 6; 2007-511, s. 12; 2011-268, s. 4; 2013-360, ss. 8.45(a), (b); 2013-369, s. 2; 2014-119, s. 9(a); 2015-195, ss. 2, 3.)
 
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Maverick9

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Mid-atlantic
(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

Whose card is it to which he refers? Doesn't matter since he won't be back
 

Chad Thompson

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Jun 21, 2017
Messages
5
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Benson
Ok, I'm sorry everyone but I have just finished teaching a Concealed Carry Handgun Instructor course here at the academy (CCH is what the program is referred to as in NC) and have just had a chance to reply here. I posted on here in an attempt to correct some misinformation on a business card that was advertising something called Triangle Open Carry, in efforts to hopefully save citizens some heartbreak and legal trouble in the future. The post was aimed at Lannie Godwin who had this forum address on the card with his name but no other contact info so I came here hoping he would see the post. # 5 on that card stated that NC citizens could exercise open carry of firearms on educational property as long as the firearm was in a locked container and that isn't our State law. Although our States Constitution does allow open carry in some instances, it doesn't allow that on educational property. In NC a citizen must have a valid concealed carry handgun permit in order to possess a handgun only on educational property. NCGS. 14-269. No other firearm is allowed--only a handgun or handguns. If any other firearm is brought onto educational property intentionally (rifles, shotguns)it is a Felony; accidentally is a misdemeanor, regardless as to whether or not a citizen has a CCH permit. Again NCGS. 14-269. I teach every State certified firearms instructor in my home State of North Carolina and care a lot about our citizens. That is and was my sole reason for posting on here. If any of you know how to contact Lannie and get the message to him I would appreciate it and I am not trying to step out of line on the forums rules or pee in anybody's cornflakes, I just want our citizens to carry without going to jail and/or prison. North Carolina has changed a lot of rules and laws in the past 4 years as pertains to open and/or concealed carry and that is why there is some confusion. Contrary to one post on here I'm not some all-knowing cop but am a 29 year law enforcement veteran and North Carolinas Senior Firearms Instructor at the NC Justice Academy and I take my job seriously. I'm also a staunch defender of our firearms rights. If you care to help get the word to my fellow citizens I thank you.
 

WalkingWolf

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North Carolina
This is what I hate about some instructors, they are just full of it. It is not called CCH in any course that has been listed in my area. It is also listed by all sheriff's depts websites that I have seen as a CHP. I hope your class is not full of inconsistency as you have displayed here. For one you claimed it is a felony, which the statute is very clear in that regards that unless a student it is a misdemeanor.

Maybe you can provide a citation from the NC Justice Academy that contradicts the law as to the permit. EVEN the permit itself it is clearly printed in blue on the top. North Carolina Concealed Handgun Permit

(f) Notwithstanding subsection (b) of this section it shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor rather than a Class I felony for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol, or other firearm of any kind, on educational property or to a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by a school if:

(1) The person is not a student attending school on the educational property or an employee employed by the school working on the educational property; and

(1a) The person is not a student attending a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by the school at which the student is enrolled or an employee attending a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by the school at which the employee is employed; and

(2) Repealed by Session Laws 1999-211, s. 1, effective December 1, 1999, and applicable to offenses committed on or after that date.

(3) The firearm is not loaded, is in a motor vehicle, and is in a locked container or a locked firearm rack.

(4) Repealed by Session Laws 1999-211, s. 1, effective December 1, 1999, and applicable to offenses committed on or after that date.
 
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bc.cruiser

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Apr 2, 2011
Messages
786
Location
Fayetteville NC
# 5 on that card stated that NC citizens could exercise open carry of firearms on educational property as long as the firearm was in a locked container

Chad, if this is the exact wording on the card, you are quite correct; it is wrong on every level. You can't exercise open carry using a locked container.:banghead:

I went to TOC's website, but could not find a copy of the card. It's been about a year since I last saw Lannie (at McCall's); we were there for a meet'n'greet'n'eat, and several of us were OCing with the blessing of both the owner and the organizer (14-269.3(b)(2,3)).:cool:
 

BB62

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Aug 17, 2006
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4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Lannie, one of the Clayton PD Officers found your card left at McCalls and forwarded it to me. I wanted to let you know that point # 5 is WRONG and is a felony in North Carolina. The only citizens who are allowed to possess a HANDGUN (no other firearm) in a locked container on educational property are ones who possess a valid CCH permit.

Intentionally bringing a firearm onto educational property is felonious and Open Carry on educational property is absolutely illegal in our State. Even with a valid CCH permit, citizens cannot possess any other type of firearm other than a handgun and private educational property can still be posted, making any firearm illegal on the property.

I just don't want our citizens getting into trouble and especially don't want them losing their gun rights. If you or any other members have any questions feel free to contact me here or at the North Carolina Justice Academy. Thanks.
Chad, it's great to have you here, but for goodness sake - learn to use paragraphs. (like I modified your original post above)

Not all of us are young whippersnappers who can follow a series of horizontal lines of text.
 
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Chad Thompson

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Jun 21, 2017
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5
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Benson
Walking wolf, how about YOU check your CCH Red Book you should've gotten with my name on it when you took your CCH Certification Course in NC. The program is called the Concealed Carry Handgun Program in our state regardless as to what is written on your permit. Also how about you find an updated and amended NC law from which to cut and paste instead of one from almost 20 YEARS AGO!!! 1999?! Really?! You troglodyte! The law has changed immensely since then and especially in 2013 as pertains to the Felony v/s misdemeanor on educational property. "This is what I hate about some posters on the internet, they're just full of crap.".....
 

WalkingWolf

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Walking wolf, how about YOU check your CCH Red Book you should've gotten with my name on it when you took your CCH Certification Course in NC. The program is called the Concealed Carry Handgun Program in our state regardless as to what is written on your permit. Also how about you find an updated and amended NC law from which to cut and paste instead of one from almost 20 YEARS AGO!!! 1999?! Really?! You troglodyte! The law has changed immensely since then and especially in 2013 as pertains to the Felony v/s misdemeanor on educational property. "This is what I hate about some posters on the internet, they're just full of crap.".....

I have no CCH redbook. You should check North Carolina statutes, they are the law after all. I would expect a government employee who is an employee of the Justice Academy to know the laws better than I do. Nothing stops you from providing citations to prove your claim. If you pay real close attention you will see that my citation is directly from NC state site. Laws on the books are valid, no matter how old, until they are replaced, or repealed. The NC state shows no repeal on their website. Changes to laws are always made, unless the change is specific to another they do not change the law.

You are not doing yourself well with the name calling, it does not bode well for someone who is employed by the people. In some cases in the past it has been enough reason for termination of employment. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, until the name calling, you need to find other employment.
 
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bc.cruiser

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Apr 2, 2011
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Fayetteville NC
Walking wolf, how about YOU check your CCH Red Book you should've gotten with my name on it when you took your CCH Certification Course in NC. The program is called the Concealed Carry Handgun Program in our state regardless as to what is written on your permit. Also how about you find an updated and amended NC law from which to cut and paste instead of one from almost 20 YEARS AGO!!! 1999?! Really?! You troglodyte! The law has changed immensely since then and especially in 2013 as pertains to the Felony v/s misdemeanor on educational property. "This is what I hate about some posters on the internet, they're just full of crap.".....

Perhaps you should review those same laws. What WalkingWolf posted is the same info I am reading, which was updated in 2015: 14-269.2 (b) and (f). Paragraph (b) applies to intentionally bringing any firearm onto educational property; (f) is an exception to both intentional and unintentional introduction of a firearm to educational property. In an earlier post you tried to separate the two instances.

The naming of the program and the title of the permit are only minor nits to be picked; the fact of a state instructor not KNOWING the material is another, quite serious, matter. If the law is amended through some other section or paragraph, feel free to fire back.

Your cite of 2013 is misplaced. No part of this argument (firearms on educational property by non-students) was affected by the session law 2013-369, also known as HB937. http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Sessions/2013/Bills/House/HTML/H937v6.html

Citing:

§ 14-269.2. Weapons on campus or other educational property.

(b) It shall be a Class I felony for any person knowingly to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol, or other firearm of any kind on educational property or to a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by a school. Unless the conduct is covered under some other provision of law providing greater punishment, any person who willfully discharges a firearm of any kind on educational property is guilty of a Class F felony. However, this subsection does not apply to a BB gun, stun gun, air rifle, or air pistol.

(f) Notwithstanding subsection (b) of this section it shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor rather than a Class I felony for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol, or other firearm of any kind, on educational property or to a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by a school if:

(1) The person is not a student attending school on the educational property or an employee employed by the school working on the educational property; and

(1a) The person is not a student attending a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by the school at which the student is enrolled or an employee attending a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by the school at which the employee is employed; and

(1971, c. 241, ss. 1, 2; c. 1224; 1991, c. 622, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 164; c. 558, s. 1; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 14, s. 4(a), (b); 1995, c. 49, s. 1; 1997-238, s. 2; 1999-211, s. 1; 1999-257, s. 3, 3.1; 2003-217, s. 1; 2004-198, ss. 1, 2, 3; 2006-264, s. 31; 2007-427, s. 6; 2007-511, s. 12; 2011-268, s. 4; 2013-360, ss. 8.45(a), (b); 2013-369, s. 2; 2014-119, s. 9(a); 2015-195, ss. 2, 3.)


This has been a nice break from an otherwise boring work day.:cool:
 
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fjpro2a

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Jun 27, 2010
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I have no CCH redbook. You should check North Carolina statutes, they are the law after all. I would expect a government employee who is an employee of the Justice Academy to know the laws better than I do. Nothing stops you from providing citations to prove your claim. If you pay real close attention you will see that my citation is directly from NC state site. Laws on the books are valid, no matter how old, until they are replaced, or repealed. The NC state shows no repeal on their website. Changes to laws are always made, unless the change is specific to another they do not change the law.

You are not doing yourself well with the name calling, it does not bode well for someone who is employed by the people. In some cases in the past it has been enough reason for termination of employment. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, until the name calling, you need to find other employment.

Walking Wolf (2), Chad Thompson (0) - Keep up the good work, my friend
 
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