No guns in KFC

OC for ME · Jul 23, 2017

utbagpiper said:
I exclude all churches and private residences because they are not places of public accommodation. A man's home and his holy ground must be given the widest possible latitude in all matter regarding how the property is administered, who is granted or denied entry etc. ...

Charles

If your RKBA is a foremost concern to you then the church must respect your RKBA. Reasonable and rational discussion on our RKBA must not exclude any property other than a fellow citizen's castle. You choose to more narrowly define what is rational and reasonable.

Roger_that · Jul 23, 2017

I have not heard anything yet. I may try again or just give it up. I only get their apple pies.

utbagpiper · Jul 25, 2017

OC for ME said:
If your RKBA is a foremost concern to you then the church must respect your RKBA. Reasonable and rational discussion on our RKBA must not exclude any property other than a fellow citizen's castle. You choose to more narrowly define what is rational and reasonable.

This post is solidly in the realm of trolling. You put forth a premise that even you don't agree with as you oppose subjecting places of public accommodation to anti-discrimination laws that would include lawful possession of firearms. You exclude a private home but offer no rational as to what makes that materially different than holy ground.

It appears your position here has far more to do with overt hostility to 1st amendment protections of the free exercise of religion than with supporting 2nd amendment RKBA.

That looks a lot like small minded, anti-religious bigotry to me. And I have no need to attempt rational, civil discussion with any such small minded bigot.

Let us know when your support for RKBA outweighs your hatred of religion and churches.

countryclubjoe · Jul 25, 2017

utbagpiper said:
This post is solidly in the realm of trolling. You put forth a premise that even you don't agree with as you oppose subjecting places of public accommodation to anti-discrimination laws that would include lawful possession of firearms. You exclude a private home but offer no rational as to what makes that materially different than holy ground.

It appears your position here has far more to do with overt hostility to 1st amendment protections of the free exercise of religion than with supporting 2nd amendment RKBA.

That looks a lot like small minded, anti-religious bigotry to me. And I have no need to attempt rational, civil discussion with any such small minded bigot.

Let us know when your support for RKBA outweighs your hatred of religion and churches.

Charles

So in your opinion of which I may not also agree however I respect, are all Atheist religious bigots?

Very interesting topic for debate.

Regards
CCJ

utbagpiper · Jul 26, 2017

countryclubjoe said:
Charles

So in your opinion of which I may not also agree however I respect, are all Atheist religious bigots?

????

FreedomVA · Jul 27, 2017

i'm going to give my money to Popeye's and eat their fried chickens. Wish Roy Rogers still around.

Grapeshot · Jul 27, 2017

FreedomVA said:
i'm going to give my money to Popeye's and eat their fried chickens. Wish Roy Rogers still around.

They are still in Viginia, but is a long walk for you and I.

https://tinyurl.com/yatbre3y

FreedomVA · Jul 27, 2017

Grapeshot said:
They are still in Viginia, but is a long walk for you and I.

https://tinyurl.com/yatbre3y

i'll save some money and fry my own chickens then.

bc.cruiser · Jul 28, 2017

Gun in KFC

There was at least one gun, my M1911, in my local KFC last night. I swung through there while walking home from Wally World last night just to check. No signage, nobody appeared upset, nervous, or hostile. I had also checked the door of Cici's a block prior; again, no signage. I'm certainly not a frequent customer of Cici's as I've only been to one once; no complaints at the food was okay, the place was clean, and the staff friendly.

utbagpiper · Aug 1, 2017

Grapeshot said:
Yep - the government is supposed to be restricted from doing anything that smacks of supporting or promoting a nationally controlled religion.

The government is also supposed to be prohibited from doing anything to restrict the free exercise of religion, banning of free association (which must include the right to not associate), or limiting freedom of speech (which must include the right not to speak, print, or produce).

OC for ME · Aug 1, 2017

utbagpiper said:
This post is solidly in the realm of trolling. You put forth a premise that even you don't agree with as you oppose subjecting places of public accommodation to anti-discrimination laws that would include lawful possession of firearms. You exclude a private home but offer no rational as to what makes that materially different than holy ground.

It appears your position here has far more to do with overt hostility to 1st amendment protections of the free exercise of religion than with supporting 2nd amendment RKBA.

That looks a lot like small minded, anti-religious bigotry to me. And I have no need to attempt rational, civil discussion with any such small minded bigot.

Let us know when your support for RKBA outweighs your hatred of religion and churches.

A church is a house of God it is not a man's castle. There is a vast difference between your private property and church property in the law. A church is a place of public gathering, not a place of public accommodation.

A church is subject to certain regulations and laws that safe guard the public who gather there. For example, no man's castle is mandated to be ADA compliant before inviting a fellow citizen to enter. A man's castle must be maintained to reduce the possibility of negligently injuring another citizen who enters invited. The king of his castle must also make reasonable efforts to not negligently, or intentionally without lawful justification, harm another citizen who is not invited.

A church may exclude your firearm and then a choice you must make. A church may be able to discriminate against any number of attributes and not be held to account under the law, as this should be.

I have posted that a long search was needed to find a church that respected my God given right. I may CC only and I find this acceptable, hypocrite some would say because it is not OC or CC? Perhaps. But, I may carry anywhere on church property.

Either your church fully respects what God has given us or it does not. Partial recognition is the same to me as not recognizing my right at all, my choice. You are sensitive to any criticism of your church, as is your right, but I am not obliged to segregate any one church that does not fully respect my RKBA from any other church that also does not respect my RKBA. I worked and found a church that compromised a wee bit.

The 1A restrains the state, not a private citizen or private organization. So, your 1A claim is dismissed out of hand.

I will not subject my selfish desires on another man's private property, castle or business. You have clearly stated the opposite, protected by the laws of your state and seek to inject the state into another man's private property, his business if you can. If a business does not want my firearm I go elsewhere. Perhaps his disregard for our God given right will impact his bottom line and he then must make a choice.

Grapeshot · Aug 1, 2017

Crimes Involving Trespassing on Churches and Church Property in Virginia

Trespassing on churches and church property in Virginia can be a misdemeanor or even a felony. For purposes of crimes related to trespassing on churches and church property in Virginia, a church is any place of worship and church property includes educational buildings or community centers owned or leased by a church (Va. Code §18.2-128(C)).

Trespassing on Church Property (Va. Code §18.2-128(A)): Trespassing on churches and church property in Virginia is a crime under Va. Code §18.2-128(A). Trespassing on Churches and Church Property in Virginia is entering church property at night without permission for any purpose other than to attend a meeting or service conducted in the church is a Class 3 misdemeanor. This crime is punished with a fine up to $500.
Unlawfully Remaining on Church Property (Va. Code §18.2-128(B)): It is a Class 1 misdemeanor to remain on church property after having been told to leave by someone authorized to remove someone from the property or in violation of visible no trespassing signs. This crime is punished with up to 12 months in jail and a fine up to $2500.

http://humbrechtlaw.com/trespassing-on-churches-and-church-property-in-virginia/

OC for ME · Aug 1, 2017

The felony:

A violation of this subsection shall be punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor, except that any person, other than a parent, who violates this subsection on school property (church schools as well) with the intent to abduct a student shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

I'm confident that abducting anyone in VA is a serious offense, a felony? If not, a misdemeanor offense, then please inform the membership.

bc.cruiser · Aug 1, 2017

Good evening, sir! Will you be dining in, or carrying out? Would you like regular or extra crispy chicken? What sides are to go with that? Would you like some sweet tea, also? Oh, excuse me, those people back there are arguing something about property rights and the Second Amendment. They haven't ordered yet, either. I don't know what's going on with them. Your gun? What about it? Heck, this is Fayetteville, of course you can carry it here.

OC for ME · Aug 1, 2017

OC for ME said:
A church is a house of God it is not a man's castle. There is a vast difference between your private property and church property in the law. A church is a place of public gathering, not a place of public accommodation.

A church is subject to certain regulations and laws that safe guard the public who gather there. For example, no man's castle is mandated to be ADA compliant before inviting a fellow citizen to enter. A man's castle must be maintained to reduce the possibility of negligently injuring another citizen who enters invited. The king of his castle must also make reasonable efforts to not negligently, or intentionally without lawful justification, harm another citizen who is not invited.

A church may exclude your firearm and then a choice you must make. A church may be able to discriminate against any number of attributes and not be held to account under the law, as this should be.

I have posted that a long search was needed to find a church that respected my God given right. I may CC only and I find this acceptable, hypocrite some would say because it is not OC or CC? Perhaps. But, I may carry anywhere on church property.

Either your church fully respects what God has given us or it does not. Partial recognition is the same to me as not recognizing my right at all, my choice. You are sensitive to any criticism of your church, as is your right, but I am not obliged to segregate any one church that does not fully respect my RKBA from any other church that also does not respect my RKBA. I worked and found a church that compromised a wee bit.

The 1A restrains the state, not a private citizen or private organization. So, your 1A claim is dismissed out of hand.

I will not subject my selfish desires on another man's private property, castle or business. You have clearly stated the opposite, protected by the laws of your state and seek to inject the state into another man's private property, his business if you can. If a business does not want my firearm I go elsewhere. Perhaps his disregard for our God given right will impact his bottom line and he then must make a choice.

I do not imply that a church must comply, encouraged yes, with the ADA, my apologies if that was taken. OSHA requirements are the majority of the regulations that a private sector employer, including churches, must comply with who have one or more workers. Only the secular activities of the church are subject to OSHA oversight.

utbagpiper · Aug 1, 2017

OC for ME said:
A church is a house of God it is not a man's castle. There is a vast difference between your private property and church property in the law. A church is a place of public gathering, not a place of public accommodation.

.....[Ramblings redacted]

.

I'm not sure I can follow a cogent and consistent train of thought here.

Yes, I have every right to pick whatever church I like. My choice is not your concern and your suggestions that you would support anti-discrimination laws for RKBA only if the LDS church was subjected to them--even while you repeatedly make clear you'll never support including possession of a gun as a protected category--is solidly in the realm of trolling and bigotry.

When you tell us that you oppose all anti-discrimination laws, I will respect your position opposing including possession of firearms as a protected category. Until then you are merely making an unprincipled distinction between a man wearing a gun and a man wearing a dress.

solus · Aug 1, 2017

mate, it is good to see you are still resorting to degrading taunts towards members when folk challenge you...

steady yourself and get ready for UTAH facts not hyperbole...

1. Whites comprise 86% of the state. (https://suburbanstats.org/population/how-many-people-live-in-utah)
2. Mormons will hold a 91-12 edge, or 88 percent of Utah legislators — eight of every nine — are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=4663941&itype=CMSID)

no wonder UTAH has 76-10-530, Trespass with a firearm in a house of worship or private residence is it?

as for you respecting property owners rights, pretend you are in COSTCO a declared GFZ by their contract you, as a member you signed, yet you regularly "loosely conceal" in their facilities, because their facilities are 'convenient' for you!

good to see your smile mate, shame plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

hi ho silver, away...

utbagpiper · Aug 1, 2017

solus said:
mate, it is good to see ....

It is good to see my troll is still resorting to impolite forms of address.

solus said:
1. Whites comprise 86% of the state. (https://suburbanstats.org/population/how-many-people-live-in-utah)
2. Mormons will hold a 91-12 edge, or 88 percent of Utah legislators — eight of every nine — are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=4663941&itype=CMSID)

no wonder UTAH has 76-10-530, Trespass with a firearm in a house of worship or private residence is it?

Not sure what our racial demographics have to do with anything. But I guess racists are prone to focus on race.

As for the religious demographics: Yes, it turns out in our nation, majorities matter as we conduct a lot of business by majority vote. Given a large enough national super-majority, we (or our opponents) can change the federal constitution to permit or ban anything we like.

That same legislature that gave us 76-10-530, also gave us non-discriminatory carry permits, strong Statewide preemption, employment protection for government employees who carry at work (including teachers, college professors and janitors, and DMV clerks), parking lot preemption for most private sector employees, explicitly exempted OC from any disorderly conduct charge, provided us one of the best defense of habitation (including temporary camps) laws in the nation, provided excellent civil suit protection against anyone who uses deadly force in lawful self defense, and kept the list of off-limit locations in Utah one of the shortest in the nation. In other words, save for permit free carry, our legislature is demonstrably one of the most pro-RKBA in the nation. They are also pro-religious freedom, much to your chagrin and other anti-religious bigots.

solus said:
as for you respecting property owners rights, pretend you are in COSTCO a declared GFZ by their contract you, as a member you signed, yet you regularly "loosely conceal" in their facilities, because their facilities are 'convenient' for you!

You just keep dumping those milkshakes as you hold some right to discriminate at business property open to the public in higher regard than you do basic anti-discrimination protections, mate.

solus · Aug 1, 2017

thanks for the familiar name calling greeting mate...

truly sorry you missed the connection in my last post regarding the kind and apparently the unbiased governing legislature body of your outstanding State passing such great legislation and i am sure more...

however, please, since you insist to continue to refer to the civil rights beginnings, shall we set the history record straight ?

you are aware the sit-in phenomenon began in the great state of North Carolina?

the NYTimes reported: "... “The demonstrations were generally dismissed at first as another college fad of the ‘panty-raid’ variety. This opinion lost adherents, however, as the movement spread from North Carolina to Virginia, Florida, South Carolina and Tennessee and involved fifteen cities. Some whites wrote off the episodes as the work of ‘outside agitators."

Segregated lunch counters were common in the South because of numerous Jim Crow laws, which also kept public buildings and sites like libraries, parks, theaters, swimming pools and water fountains segregated.

(jim crow laws historically passed from legislatures composed of similar minded white, religiously orientated individuals?)

"Reactions to the sit-in protesters varied by restaurant. In many places, groups of white men gathered around the protesters to heckle them and there was occasional violence. “In a few cases the African Americanes were elbowed, jostled and shoved. Itching powder was sprinkled on them and they were spattered with eggs,” The Times reported. “At Rock Hill, S.C., a African American youth was knocked from a stool by a white beside whom he sat. A bottle of ammonia was hurled through the door of a drug store there. The fumes brought tears to the eyes of the demonstrators.” Many managers closed their counters rather than deal with the protests."

"The sit-in protests were successful in integrating lunch counters, including the Greensboro Woolworth’s, which gave in to to the protesters in July 1960. Four years later, segregation of public places was made illegal when Congress passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964."

hi ho silver, away...

better than stonewall riots which began the liberation which ended in a cohort of peoples who got so much in such a short period, relatively, of time.

FreedomVA · Aug 1, 2017

Issues mediated.

No guns in KFC

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