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Firearm Transfer Issue

Sigma69

Newbie
Joined
Jul 22, 2017
Messages
5
Location
Chicago
Hello,

New to the forum, looking for some help/advice. I am going to travel from my home state of Illinois to Florida to visit my father. He wants to give me a shotgun which I am legally able to own and aquire on my own (I have a valid IL FOID and CCW), it's a family heirloom. I'll be driving down. My father was going to draft a bill of sale for $1.00 and I would drive it back. Is this legal? And hypothetically, if someone already did this and now have the shotgun in Illinois, how would they get it into legal waters? Thank you for any information you can provide. Sorry if I posted this on the wrong spot; if there is some place better please let me know. Thank you!
 

Sigma69

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Jul 22, 2017
Messages
5
Location
Chicago
What you are proposing is a Federal felony. Your father must deliver the gun to an FFL to transfer it to you. 18 USC 922 is the Federal law that you would be violating. The FFL in Florida must comply with all the laws of both Florida and Illinois in order to transfer the shotgun to you. Good luck finding an FFL in Florida willing to take that chance.

Ok, thank you for the information. My father comes to Illinois periodically for business, would it be legal for him to transport it to IL and have it transferred via FFL in IL?
 

Sigma69

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Jul 22, 2017
Messages
5
Location
Chicago
What you are proposing is a Federal felony. Your father must deliver the gun to an FFL to transfer it to you. 18 USC 922 is the Federal law that you would be violating. The FFL in Florida must comply with all the laws of both Florida and Illinois in order to transfer the shotgun to you. Good luck finding an FFL in Florida willing to take that chance.

Ok, thank you for the information. My father comes to Illinois periodically for business, would it be legal for him to transport it to IL and have it transferred via FFL in IL?
 

Sigma69

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Jul 22, 2017
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Location
Chicago
Unless there is an Illinois law against it (and I don't think there is), then that would be legal.

Thank you very much. Just want to keep it all above-board with the firearms. I have to say I'm surprised that it's a felony to transfer a firearm to immediate family if they live out of state. Appreciate the information, NavyLCDR.
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
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Apr 7, 2013
Messages
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Location
Mid-atlantic
To the OP, the respondent is wrong, but don't take this as legal advice.

ONLY the following states:

California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington State) and the District of Columbia

...require you to transfer a firearm sold person-to-person through a local firearms retailer. In Virginia you can have personal sales but they are supposed to do a background check as well.

You may certainly sell, give or transfer a firearm to a family member, especially a long gun, such as a hunting firearm.

Here's a website which also gives an ATF link:

http://www.nssfblog.com/giving-a-firearm-as-a-gift-some-reminders-from-nssf/
 
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wabbit

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
153
Location
briar patch, NM
morn, welcome

Enjoy your holiday spent with family and friends in Fl and since it wasn't clear, nor does it really matter, assure you get a nice case for the family heirloom to travel back to the Windy City when you leave, e.g. appropriate three position lockable, (keyed alike locks is handy and no they do not need to be TSA openable) hard-sided case if you fly (please assure show up earlier to endure check in at the airlines, with your locked, unload family heirloom) or if you drove, a cheapy lockable nylon case so the family heirloom doesn't get scratched while in the back recesses of your trunk.

as for IL BS practices...as you are aware, in Chicago proper, your FOID is mandatory while handling your family heirloom.

do not ask the CHP if you need it register it, visit a neighbourhood gun store and ask to speak with the FFL of record, only! ask your hypothetical question of if dad brings the family heirloom gun to Chicago what proceedures, if any, have to be followed.
 

JustaShooter

Regular Member
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Jul 26, 2013
Messages
728
Location
NE Ohio
To the OP, the respondent is wrong, but don't take this as legal advice.

ONLY the following states:

California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington State) and the District of Columbia

...require you to transfer a firearm sold person-to-person through a local firearms retailer. In Virginia you can have personal sales but they are supposed to do a background check as well.

You may certainly sell, give or transfer a firearm to a family member, especially a long gun, such as a hunting firearm.

Here's a website which also gives an ATF link:

http://www.nssfblog.com/giving-a-firearm-as-a-gift-some-reminders-from-nssf/

With respect, since the firearm would be transferred between residents of different states, the above does not apply. Per Federal law, the transfer must be completed through an FFL. Generally, the transfer must take place through an FFL in the purchaser's / transferee's state of residence, except for over-the-counter purchases of a long gun which may take place at an FFL in the seller's / transferer's state as long as laws of both states allow it.

See 18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and 27 CFR 478.29
 

wabbit

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Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
153
Location
briar patch, NM
thank you, you have quoted the rule book for importers, manufacturers, gunsmiths, curio, and of course licensee's, dealing in the commerce of firearms must follow. as pointed out at the beginning of The GCA of 1968, Title 18, USC, Chapter 44:

Title I: State Firearms Control Assistance
PURPOSE
Sec. 101. The Congress hereby declares that the purpose of this title is to provide support to Federal, State, and local law enforcement officials in their fight against crime and violence, and it is not the purpose of this title to place any undue or unnecessary Federal restrictions or burdens on lawabiding citizens with respect to the acquisition, possession, or use of firearms appropriate to the purpose of hunting, trapshooting, target shooting, personal protection, or any other lawful activity, and that this title is not intended to discourage or eliminate the private ownership or use of firearms by lawabiding citizens for lawful purposes, or provide for the imposition by Federal regulations of any procedures or requirements other than those reasonably necessary to implement and effectuate the provisions of this title.


for the record, while some are screaming and are upset about the residency criteria, do you believe or think the DV clauses 921(33)(A); 15 USC Chapter 18, misdemeanor crime of Domestic Violence (a) thru (c); etc., are a more important.

finally, from the ATF's quickie question site:
1. May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner “in the care of” the out–of–State resident. Upon reaching its destination, persons other than the owner may not open the package or take possession of the firearm.

Not sure if this qualifies as meeting OCDO forum requirements requiring a cite: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may...s-or-her-use-hunting-or-other-lawful-activity

2. May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A); 27 CFR 478.31]
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-through-us-postal-service

3. May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-common-or-contract-carrier


now validating i have not broken OCDO's forum mandates of only advocating lawful conduct, my original post was based on this Federal Statute coupled with information already mentioned:

§ 478.38 Transportation of firearms.
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where such person may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where such person may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

OP, enjoy your holiday with your father, etc.
 
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Sigma69

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Jul 22, 2017
Messages
5
Location
Chicago
With respect, since the firearm would be transferred between residents of different states, the above does not apply. Per Federal law, the transfer must be completed through an FFL. Generally, the transfer must take place through an FFL in the purchaser's / transferee's state of residence, except for over-the-counter purchases of a long gun which may take place at an FFL in the seller's / transferer's state as long as laws of both states allow it.

See 18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and 27 CFR 478.29

Thank you for this information. I had one further question. I noticed in reading 18 USC 922(5) that a firearm may be loaned or rented for lawful sporting purposes. Hypothetically, could my father loan the shotgun to me for a sporting clays outing in my home state and transfer it at a later date? I'm trying to stay legal, but I ask this for 2 reasons. My father seems to think there's a snowball's chance in heck a Florida FFL will take a chance with IL laws, so it's unlikely I could transfer it in FL. Second, I'm going to drive down and back to visit, which would be the ideal way to transport it to me, as well as my father flies up on business trips and his company wouldn't take too kindly to firearms being transported on a trip. Again, I'm just trying to find out the best way to get this transferred without breaking the law. If it's not possible to do it this way I guess I'll just have to wait for a better opportunity. Thank you all again for all of your input and information.
 

wabbit

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
153
Location
briar patch, NM
Fl: 790.28 Purchase of rifles and shotguns in contiguous states.—A resident of this state may purchase a rifle or shotgun in any state contiguous to this state if he or she conforms to applicable laws and regulations of the United States, of the state where the purchase is made, and of this state.
History.—s. 1, ch. 79-44; s. 1219, ch. 97-102.

GA:Residents of the State of Georgia may purchase rifles and shotguns in any state of the United States, provided such residents conform to applicable provisions of statutes and regulations of the United States, of the State of Georgia, and of the state in which the purchase is made.

175.30  Purchase of firearms in other states permitted. A resident of this state or a corporation or other business entity maintaining a place of business in this state may purchase or otherwise obtain a rifle or shotgun in a state other than this state if the transfer complies with federal law and the laws of both states.
History: 1971 c. 39; 2013 a. 232.

CO., 12-27-101 thru 104
ID., 18-3314
MN., 624.71

and dozens of other states have mandates stating the same thing...
 

JustaShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
728
Location
NE Ohio
Thank you for this information. I had one further question. I noticed in reading 18 USC 922(5) that a firearm may be loaned or rented for lawful sporting purposes. Hypothetically, could my father loan the shotgun to me for a sporting clays outing in my home state and transfer it at a later date? I'm trying to stay legal, but I ask this for 2 reasons. My father seems to think there's a snowball's chance in heck a Florida FFL will take a chance with IL laws, so it's unlikely I could transfer it in FL. Second, I'm going to drive down and back to visit, which would be the ideal way to transport it to me, as well as my father flies up on business trips and his company wouldn't take too kindly to firearms being transported on a trip. Again, I'm just trying to find out the best way to get this transferred without breaking the law. If it's not possible to do it this way I guess I'll just have to wait for a better opportunity. Thank you all again for all of your input and information.

You are welcome.

I don't believe that would be legal, unfortunately. Although 18 USC 922(5) allows for a firearm to be loaned or rented for lawful sporting purposes to a resident of a different state, (as NavyLCDR points out) 18 USC 922(3) prohibits transporting that firearm into the borrower's / renter's state of residence. Now, had your father brought it to you and loaned it to you while in IL, that would have been legal as I read it.

As an alternative, as I understand it he could ship it to you via an FFL in IL where you could take possession.
 

color of law

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Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,950
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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Sigma69, I'm confused. I thought the gun was willed to you many many years ago. And because you were young, your father kept it for you. And now you are picking-up your family heirloom.
 
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color of law

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There are many guns that have never moved through a FFL. Guns passed through the family before 1968 have never moved through a FFL. .22 used to never have serial numbers. Used to buy long guns and shotguns through the mail. Sears and Montgomery Ward to name two.

My 1961 boy Scout handbook has all kinds of adds for long guns and shotguns you could order through the mail.
 
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Thundar

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Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
Alternative solution

If the heirloom is 50 years old, get a Curio and Relics License. $30 to the BATFE and you can recieve old guns in other states. Be careful though, collecting old guns can be a very expensive hobby.
Live free or die,
Thundar
 
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gutshot II

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Jul 1, 2017
Messages
782
Location
Central Ky.
There are many guns that have never moved through a FFL. Guns passed through the family before 1968 have never moved through a FFL. .22 used to never have serial numbers. Used to buy long guns and shotguns through the mail. Sears and Montgomery Ward to name two.

My 1961 boy Scout handbook has all kinds of adds for long guns and shotguns you could order through the mail.


My Boy Scout Handbook had no adds of any kind. The magazine, Boy Scout Life had plenty of all types, including guns through the mail. As did Field and Stream, Outdoor Life and a lot of other magazines my father subscribed to.
 

JoeSparky

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Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,621
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
Hello,

New to the forum, looking for some help/advice. I am going to travel from my home state of Illinois to Florida to visit my father. He wants to give me a shotgun which I am legally able to own and aquire on my own (I have a valid IL FOID and CCW), it's a family heirloom. I'll be driving down. My father was going to draft a bill of sale for $1.00 and I would drive it back. Is this legal? And hypothetically, if someone already did this and now have the shotgun in Illinois, how would they get it into legal waters? Thank you for any information you can provide. Sorry if I posted this on the wrong spot; if there is some place better please let me know. Thank you!
Did you mean your father wants to LOAN a shotgun to you for your LAWFUL use in your home state? (Hint, hint)
 

color of law

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Oct 7, 2007
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My Boy Scout Handbook had no adds of any kind. The magazine, Boy Scout Life had plenty of all types, including guns through the mail. As did Field and Stream, Outdoor Life and a lot of other magazines my father subscribed to.
My addition of the hand book is printed on paper. Your addition is the copy that was chiseled into stone tablets.
 
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