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ATF - State Laws and Published Ordinances - Firearms (32nd Edition)

color of law

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Special Message from ATF: State Laws and Published Ordinances

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/special-message-atf-state-laws-and-published-ordinances

Here is the BIG disclaimer, including a typo.
STATE LAWS AND PUBLISHED ORDINANCE - FIREARMS (32nd EDITION - 2017-2018)

The State laws and ordinances in this publication are current through January 2017.

This material is not intended to provide legal advice and should be used only for informational purposes. It is possible that a State may have passed a more recent law(s) or issued interpretations or regulations that have yet to be published and are not included in thie publication. If you have any questions regarding State, County or local laws, please contact your state's Attorney General.
Last Reviewed July 21, 2017

So the ATF is telling us that they spent millions of dollars publishing shoddy work product.

Ohio's most important law R.C. 9.68 doesn't even appear in the publication. R.C. 9.68 would give notice the local laws could be in conflict with state law.
ATF needs to be disbanded.
 

gutshot II

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Here is an excerpt from this article:

This publication is designed to help Federal firearms licensees (FFL) comply with Federal and State firearms laws; specifically, with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA). In addition, this book will assist FFLs in making lawful over-the-counter sales of rifles and shotguns to out-of-State residents, transactions that must meet the legal requirements of both the FFL's and the purchaser's State of residence.

It obviously is not meant to be an all inclusive and comprehensive compilation of gun laws. That does not mean that I consider it perfect. It just means it is no better and no worse than I have come to expect from our federal government and that it may fulfil the intended purpose. As far as the omission of R.C. 9.68, that is not a gun law affecting the transfer of firearms by an FFL. That statute might be better included in advice to a city mayor on how to run his city.
 

color of law

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Here is an excerpt from this article:

This publication is designed to help Federal firearms licensees (FFL) comply with Federal and State firearms laws; specifically, with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA). In addition, this book will assist FFLs in making lawful over-the-counter sales of rifles and shotguns to out-of-State residents, transactions that must meet the legal requirements of both the FFL's and the purchaser's State of residence.

It obviously is not meant to be an all inclusive and comprehensive compilation of gun laws. That does not mean that I consider it perfect. It just means it is no better and no worse than I have come to expect from our federal government and that it may fulfil the intended purpose. As far as the omission of R.C. 9.68, that is not a gun law affecting the transfer of firearms by an FFL. That statute might be better included in advice to a city mayor on how to run his city.
Well young man, since you're new around these here parts and only having 46 posts let me learn you some edumacation.

Dayton, Ohio Code of Ordinance Sec. 138.01 defines "Automatic firearm" as "Any firearm designed or specially adapted to fire a succession of cartridges with a single function of the trigger. Also any semiautomatic firearm designed or specially adapted to fire more than 18 cartridges without reloading, other than a firearm chambering only .22 caliber short, long, or long-rifle cartridges."

Ohio Revised Code Sec. 2923.11(E) says: "Automatic firearm" means any firearm designed or specially adapted to fire a succession of cartridges with a single function of the trigger."

Not one word about capacity in the Ohio law.

Ohio Revised Code Sec. 9.68(A) says: "The individual right to keep and bear arms, being a fundamental individual right that predates the United States Constitution and Ohio Constitution, and being a constitutionally protected right in every part of Ohio, the general assembly finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state regulating the ownership, possession, purchase, other acquisition, transport, storage, carrying, sale, or other transfer of firearms, their components, and their ammunition. Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition."

The Ohio Supreme Court in Cleveland v. State, 128 Ohio St.3d 135, 2010-Ohio-6318 holds that "R.C. 9.68 is a general law that displaces municipal firearm ordinances and does not unconstitutionally infringe on municipal home-rule authority."

Therefore, Ohio Revised Code Sec. 9.68 is important because it points out that Dayton Ordinance Sec. 138.01 is in direct conflict with Ohio law and is illegal. In other words, the ATF, with purposeful intent, published an unconstitutional law.

That is why R.C. 9.68 is important
 
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gutshot II

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Well young man, since you're new around these here parts and only having 46 posts let me learn you some edumacation.

Dayton, Ohio Code of Ordinance Sec. 138.01 defines "Automatic firearm" as "Any firearm designed or specially adapted to fire a succession of cartridges with a single function of the trigger. Also any semiautomatic firearm designed or specially adapted to fire more than 18 cartridges without reloading, other than a firearm chambering only .22 caliber short, long, or long-rifle cartridges."

Ohio Revised Code Sec. 2923.11(E) says: "Automatic firearm" means any firearm designed or specially adapted to fire a succession of cartridges with a single function of the trigger."

Not one word about capacity in the Ohio law.

Ohio Revised Code Sec. 9.68(A) says: "The individual right to keep and bear arms, being a fundamental individual right that predates the United States Constitution and Ohio Constitution, and being a constitutionally protected right in every part of Ohio, the general assembly finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state regulating the ownership, possession, purchase, other acquisition, transport, storage, carrying, sale, or other transfer of firearms, their components, and their ammunition. Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition."

The Ohio Supreme Court in Cleveland v. State, 128 Ohio St.3d 135, 2010-Ohio-6318 holds that "R.C. 9.68 is a general law that displaces municipal firearm ordinances and does not unconstitutionally infringe on municipal home-rule authority."

Therefore, Ohio Revised Code Sec. 9.68 is important because it points out that Dayton Ordinance Sec. 138.01 is in direct conflict with Ohio law and is illegal. In other words, the ATF, with purposeful intent, published an unconstitutional law.

That is why R.C. 9.68 is important

Well thanks for the free education, but this document does not purport to cover every "important" issue. Many "important" issues exist outside of the purview of this document. The question is, how does the omission of any the things that you object to, like the correct location of the Ohio AG, enter into the transfer of a firearm by an FFL, which is the only intended and stated purpose of this statement by the ATF. Your objection to this document seems to be that it doesn't not address some matters that are important to you. There are millions of documents that don't address things that are important to me and I don't expect them to. Thoses millions of documents are on different subjects and were never intended to address those issues and the authors of those documents never intended them to do so and in this case stated as much. This document does not claim to address all "important" matters, not even all "important" matters about firearms.
 

color of law

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Well thanks for the free education, but this document does not purport to cover every "important" issue. Many "important" issues exist outside of the purview of this document. The question is, how does the omission of any the things that you object to, like the correct location of the Ohio AG, enter into the transfer of a firearm by an FFL, which is the only intended and stated purpose of this statement by the ATF. Your objection to this document seems to be that it doesn't not address some matters that are important to you. There are millions of documents that don't address things that are important to me and I don't expect them to. Thoses millions of documents are on different subjects and were never intended to address those issues and the authors of those documents never intended them to do so and in this case stated as much. This document does not claim to address all "important" matters, not even all "important" matters about firearms.
MidwayUSA would not sell magazines of more than 10 rounds to anyone in the Cincinnati zipcode because of the ATF's previous “State Laws and Published Ordinance” publication even though R.C. 9.68 voided the Cincinnati law. No matter how many times MidwayUSA was told it fell on deaf ears.

Now we have ATF new publication informing everyone that Dayton Ohio's law informs everyone that magazines holding more than 18 rounds is illegal which is in fact a violation of R.C. 9.68.

We have ATF aiding and abetting the city of Dayton and in effect denying the sale of legal magizines to those that live in Dayton.

So, yes Listing R.C. 9.68 in the ATF “State Laws and Published Ordinance” publication would negate MidwayUSA refusal to sell magazines over 18 rounds.
 
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gutshot II

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MidwayUSA would not sell magazines of more than 10 rounds to anyone in the Cincinnati zipcode because of the ATF's previous “State Laws and Published Ordinance” publication even though R.C. 9.68 voided the Cincinnati law. No matter how many times MidwayUSA was told it fell on deaf ears.

Now we have ATF new publication informing everyone that Dayton Ohio's law informs everyone that magazines holding more than 18 rounds is illegal which is in fact a violation of R.C. 9.68.

We have ATF aiding and abetting the city of Dayton and in effect denying the sale of legal magizines to those that live in Dayton.

So, yes Listing R.C. 9.68 in the ATF “State Laws and Published Ordinance” publication would negate MidwayUSA refusal to sell magazines over 18 rounds.

Which document are we talking about, now. It seems that you have switched to a document that I have never seen or want to see. My comments were about the document that was in the OP and your responses to it. I have nothing to say about this other document and don't know anything about it. My comments are not applicable to any other document or any comments that you may have made about those other documents. Have we now expanded this conversation to every document ever published and every comment you have ever made? Can we stay on the original subject, please? Nothing published in any other document will change the erroneous comments that you have made concerning THIS original document and my comments only address those erroneous comments.
 
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color of law

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Which document are we talking about, now. It seems that you have switched to a document that I have never seen or want to see. My comments were about the document that was in the OP and your responses to it. I have nothing to say about this other document and don't know anything about it. My comments are not applicable to any other document or any comments that you may have made about those other documents. Have we now expanded this conversation to every document ever published and every comment you have ever made? Can we stay on the original subject, please? Nothing published in any other document will change the erroneous comments that you have made concerning THIS original document and my comments only address those erroneous comments.
I have only been talking about one publication. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/state-laws-and-published-ordinances-firearms-32nd-edition

So, I'm confused as to what other publication you think I'm referring to.
 

gutshot II

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I have only been talking about one publication. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/state-laws-and-published-ordinances-firearms-32nd-edition

So, I'm confused as to what other publication you think I'm referring to.

I think you are referring to the one contained in your previous post and that I quoted in my last post. Here it is again and to help you identify it, I'll highlight it.

MidwayUSA would not sell magazines of more than 10 rounds to anyone in the Cincinnati zipcode because of the ATF's previous “State Laws and Published Ordinance” publication even though R.C. 9.68 voided the Cincinnati law. No matter how many times MidwayUSA was told it fell on deaf ears.

Now we have ATF new publication informing everyone that Dayton Ohio's law informs everyone that magazines holding more than 18 rounds is illegal which is in fact a violation of R.C. 9.68.

We have ATF aiding and abetting the city of Dayton and in effect denying the sale of legal magizines to those that live in Dayton.

So, yes Listing R.C. 9.68 in the ATF “State Laws and Published Ordinance” publication would negate MidwayUSA refusal to sell magazines over 18 rounds.


Is that not a different document than the one mentioned in the OP? If it is not, why do you refer to it as a "previous...publication". How can there be a "previous...publication" if there is no "current publication"? If there is a "previous" and a "current" document, it follows that there must be two documents. Why do you refer to this one as the "new publication" if there is no "old" document?

It sounds to me like you have a problem with "Midway" and you should take that up with Larry Potterfield, not the ATF. As I have tried to make you understand, it is not the purpose of the document to explain anything to Midway. It is solely to inform dealers about the transfer of firearms. What you demand is beyond the scope of the document. Midway can and should make their own policies, without any input from the ATF or you and me.
 

color of law

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I think you are referring to the one contained in your previous post and that I quoted in my last post. Here it is again and to help you identify it, I'll highlight it.




Is that not a different document than the one mentioned in the OP? If it is not, why do you refer to it as a "previous...publication". How can there be a "previous...publication" if there is no "current publication"? If there is a "previous" and a "current" document, it follows that there must be two documents. Why do you refer to this one as the "new publication" if there is no "old" document?

It sounds to me like you have a problem with "Midway" and you should take that up with Larry Potterfield, not the ATF. As I have tried to make you understand, it is not the purpose of the document to explain anything to Midway. It is solely to inform dealers about the transfer of firearms. What you demand is beyond the scope of the document. Midway can and should make their own policies, without any input from the ATF or you and me.
First off, I don't have a problem with MidwayUSA; I don't buy from MidwayUSA. But, others do and have had problems.

Now, as to the ATF publications. The ATF's previous “State Laws and Published Ordinance” publication, meaning ATF's 31ST EDITION – 2010 - 2011. That previous/edition also failed to contain R.C. 9.68, yet listed Cincinnati's law making magazines holding more than 15 rounds for handguns illegal. Cincinnati's law was illegal because R.C. 9.68 declared it so. See Page 378 of the PDF document. https://www.atf.gov/file/58536/download This same previous/edition also contains the city of Dayton's illegal ordinances.

Since then Cincinnati was forced to repeal that illegal law(s) and because of that, the ATF's new/current “State Laws and Published Ordinance” publication no longer contains that repealed law. But, because Dayton has not repealed their illegal ordinances, those illegal laws are still contained in the new/current ATF publication. And yet the new ATF's publication Fails to contain R.C. 9.68 which would show/indicate that Dayton's law was illegal.

Right or wrong MidwayUSA will only follow the ATF's publication.

I hope that clears up the confusion.
 

gutshot II

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First off, I don't have a problem with MidwayUSA; I don't buy from MidwayUSA. But, others do and have had problems.

Now, as to the ATF publications. The ATF's previous “State Laws and Published Ordinance” publication, meaning ATF's 31ST EDITION – 2010 - 2011. That previous/edition also failed to contain R.C. 9.68, yet listed Cincinnati's law making magazines holding more than 15 rounds for handguns illegal. Cincinnati's law was illegal because R.C. 9.68 declared it so. See Page 378 of the PDF document. https://www.atf.gov/file/58536/download This same previous/edition also contains the city of Dayton's illegal ordinances.

Since then Cincinnati was forced to repeal that illegal law(s) and because of that, the ATF's new/current “State Laws and Published Ordinance” publication no longer contains that repealed law. But, because Dayton has not repealed their illegal ordinances, those illegal laws are still contained in the new/current ATF publication. And yet the new ATF's publication Fails to contain R.C. 9.68 which would show/indicate that Dayton's law was illegal.

Right or wrong MidwayUSA will only follow the ATF's publication.

I hope that clears up the confusion.

It does not clear up anything. It just reinforces the fact that you are confused about the purpose of the ATF document and expect it to solve every problem concerning firearms. It is only in existence for one purpose and that is to advise FFL about how to make a firearms transfer. It is not concerned with how Midway does their business or how Cleveland runs their city. That is not the purpose of the document and the fact that the document does not do these things is not an indication that the document is flawed in any way. The document is just narrowly purposed and you would like it to solve a lot of problems that it was never designed to solve. I have problems that I would like the ATF to solve for me, too, but they are not going to do it. I'd like them to come out here and keep the neighbors dog off of my front yard, but they won't do it. I wish they had put something about that in this document, but I understand why they didn't. You don't seem to get that.
 

BB62

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Does the document (and/or the ATF) have contact information somewhere?

If so, CoL could contact them about what he considers to be the document's deficiencies, and Gutshot II (thank God we got rid of unnumbered Gutshot!) could contact them about his neighbor's dog...

:banana:
 
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color of law

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I have done a lot of research in regards to this publication. This publication is based on 27 CFR § 478.24. § 478.24(a) states in part that: “The Director shall annually revise and furnish Federal firearms licensees with a compilation of State laws and published ordinances which are relevant to the enforcement of this part.”

So, what is “enforcement of this part”? Well, 27 CFR § 478.1 says what it covers and that is “The regulations contained in this part relate to commerce in firearms and ammunition and are promulgated to implement Title I, State Firearms Control Assistance (18 U.S.C. Chapter 44), of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (82 Stat. 1213) as amended by Pub. L. 99–308 (100 Stat. 449), Pub. L. 99–360 (100 Stat. 766), Pub. L. 99–408 (100 Stat. 920), Pub. L. 103–159 (107 Stat. 1536), Pub. L. 103–322 (108 Stat. 1796), Pub. L. 104–208 (110 Stat. 3009), and Pub. L. 105–277 (112 Stat. 2681). ” Please note the highlighted public law.

Now, lets look at 27 CFR § 478.11 titled “Meaning of terms.” In other words, definitions, and one of those definitions is “Large capacity ammunition feeding device. A magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device for a firearm manufactured after September 13, 1994, that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition. The term does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition, or a fixed device for a manually operated firearm, or a fixed device for a firearm listed in 18 U.S.C. 922, Appendix A.” 27 CFR § 478.93(c) says how magazines, that hold 10 rounds or more, are to be marked and who may possess them.

All the regulations are still on the books; 27 CFR § 478.1 through 27 CFR § 478.171 which includes 27 CFR § 478.24, the publication of “State laws and published ordinances” and apparently ATF's authority to regulate magazines, 27 CFR § 478.93(c).

The ATF claims that their authority for 27 CFR § 478.24 comes from 18 U.S.C. 926 and T.D. ATF-270, (Treasury Decision ATF-270). The problem is ATF is no longer under the Treasure Department, they are under the Justice Department as of January 24, 2003. In other words, the regulation is woefully outdated.

So, is 27 CFR § 478.11 (Large capacity ammunition feeding device.) and 27 CFR § 478.93(c) outdated or have no law to even support them? In other words, does ATF have authority to regulate magazines? The simple answer is NO. As noted above, Public Law 103–322 is one of the laws that authorizes/supports these regulations. And you will find that Public Law 103–322 is the law that regulates magazines. Well, Public Law 103–322 is the infamous Assault Weapons Ban law which expired September 13, 2004. In other words, ATF does not regulate magazines anymore.

So lets go back to the beginning, 27 CFR § 478.24(a) states in part that: “The Director shall annually revise and furnish Federal firearms licensees with a compilation of State laws and published ordinances which are relevant to the enforcement of this part.” Well, the majority of the regulations under that part are no longer enforceable, in effect, there is no law that supports most of those regulations. And it's questionable that 27 CFR § 478.24 is even needed or is even authorized by law. But I know that the publication should not mention one word about magazines. Magazines are NOT relevant to the enforcement of this part. See 27 CFR § 478.24.

Section 101 of Title I, State Firearms Control Assistance of the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618 (82 Stat. 1213) stated purpose is: “The Congress hereby declares that the purpose of this title is to provide support to Federal, State, and local law enforcement officials in their fight against crime and violence, and it is not the purpose of this title to place any undue or unnecessary Federal restrictions or burdens on law-abiding citizens with respect to the acquisition, possession, or use of firearms appropriate to the purpose of hunting, trapshooting, target shooting, personal protection, or any other lawful activity, and that this title is not intended to discourage or eliminate the private ownership or use of firearms by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes, or provide for the imposition by Federal regulations of any procedures or requirements other than those reasonably necessary to implement and effectuate the provisions of this title.”

It is a problem when ATF interferes with state law and even fails to publish those state laws that makes clear that those local ordinances they (ATF) did publish are, in fact, illegal as based on state law that they failed to publish. And in so publishing illegal laws misleads licensed FFLs.

Today I spoke with an ATF person in the local office. I was trying to qualify some of what I was researching. I was informed (off the record) that the right hand does not know what left hand is doing. In effect ATF is in disarray. They looked at the above mentioned CFRs and couldn't believe the majority on them have no law behind them and should not even exist.

I agree with Trump, for very new regulation two old regulations must be rescinded.
 

wabbit

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Color, thank you for your research as it is quite interesting and you have brought up quite a few interesting points

thanks
 

gutshot II

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Does the document (and/or the ATF) have contact information somewhere?

If so, CoL could contact them about what he considers to be the document's deficiencies, and Gutshot II (thank God we got rid of unnumbered Gutshot!) could contact them about his neighbor's dog...

:banana:

And one would be as effective as the other. Does anybody expect anything to come of this? What is the point of this exercise and what results are expected? This is the very essence of "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing". I won't post the words that preceed those, although they seem very relevant.
 

color of law

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And one would be as effective as the other. Does anybody expect anything to come of this? What is the point of this exercise and what results are expected? This is the very essence of "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing". I won't post the words that preceed those, although they seem very relevant.
What is nice about this country is you are entitled to your opinion, as am I. And in that you have no interest in the subject matter other than criticizing someone for having such an interest, I find that odd for someone of your stature. Or maybe gutshot II is just the evil twin of deceased gutshot.

I think I covered all the bases regarding this ATF publication and to that extent I think this thread could be locked.
 
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