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Camping with a gun in Shenandoah National Park (Virginia)

DECarry17

Newbie
Joined
Oct 16, 2017
Messages
3
Location
Delaware
Hello everyone,

I'm going camping with my girlfriend in the near future and would like to have my handgun readily available to me while in the tent. Am I legally allowed to do this while in my tent? Some states consider your tent to be your "temporary home" but I was unable to find any information on this for the state of Virginia.

If I decide to have my firearm with me while in the tent does it have to be in open sight while in the tent or could I keep it in a bag next to me in the tent?

***I do NOT have a carry permit as of now but am in the process of applying for one in my home state***

Thank you very much for your help!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

wrearick

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
650
Location
Virginia Beach, Va.
From the link contained within handgunlaws.us; The title is somewhat misleading but it addresses possession of a firearm during "closed" hunting seasons which appears it would apply in your case. Paragraph "G" gives an exemption if you have a Concealed Handgun Permit, but appears it requires the handgun to be concealed. As you have stated that you don't have a permit, it is my understanding you are bound by the restrictions in "A" and "B".

4VAC15-40-60. Hunting with dogs or possession of weapons in certain locations during closed season.

A. Department-owned lands west of the Blue Ridge Mountains and national forest lands statewide. It shall be unlawful to have in possession a bow, crossbow, or any firearm that is not unloaded and cased or dismantled on all national forest lands statewide and on department-owned lands and on other lands managed by the department under cooperative agreement located in counties west of the Blue Ridge Mountains except during the period when it is lawful to take bear, deer, grouse, pheasant, quail, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel, turkey, or waterfowl on these lands.

B. Department-owned lands east of the Blue Ridge Mountains. It shall be unlawful to have in possession a bow, crossbow, or any firearm that is not unloaded and cased or dismantled on department-owned lands and on other lands managed by the department under cooperative agreement located in the counties east of the Blue Ridge Mountains except during the period when it is lawful to take bear, deer, grouse, pheasant, quail, rabbit, raccoon, squirrel, turkey, waterfowl or migratory gamebirds on these lands.

.........

F. It shall be unlawful to possess or transport any loaded firearm, or loaded crossbow in or on any vehicle at any time on national forest lands or department-owned lands.

G. The provisions of this section shall not prohibit the possession, transport and use of loaded firearms by employees of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries while engaged in the performance of their authorized and official duties, nor shall it prohibit possession and transport of loaded concealed handguns where the individual possesses a concealed handgun permit as defined in § 18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia.
 

DECarry17

Newbie
Joined
Oct 16, 2017
Messages
3
Location
Delaware
Thanks Wrearick,

It looks like I'll have to leave my handgun back at the house. I can't wait until i get my permit!
 

wrearick

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
650
Location
Virginia Beach, Va.
Thanks Wrearick,

It looks like I'll have to leave my handgun back at the house. I can't wait until i get my permit!

It looks that way to me but there are many others on this forum who know the law MUCH better than I do who may be able to find a regulation that allows it. I wouldn't give up hope yet, but agree that it does not look promising.
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
How's this for confusing?

https://www.nps.gov/shen/learn/management/firearm_policy.htm

This means 'no'. (see Wrearick, since non-obviously it's not hunting season, and the National Park police don't want you open carrying.)
-----
https://www.salisburyfirearmsacademy.com/reciprocity

As of 2013, Virginia has rescinded reciprocity with Delaware.
------
But then in 2016 it's (allegedly) back again:
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_Reciprocity.shtm
------
Then the question is how do you get from Delaware to Virginia without passing through Maryland?
https://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html
------
Finally any suggestion that carry in a national park IN Virginia is ok, has the caveat that it's NOT ok, but that one official has allegedly ordered the police not to enforce the law that it's not legal.

This is not the same as being legal.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/may/1/visitors-can-pack-heat-in-virginia-parks/

I have a recollection that the anti- McAuliffe has rescinded the rule or the opinion not to enforce. But even if he has or hasn't he's very anti.
------------
To me, it's not going to happen for you, buddy.

And by that I mean the foreseeable future. The stumbling block is going through Maryland. I would NOT carry a firearm through MD even using the national carry interstate act. (forget the name). I would not doubt that Delaware, a MAY issue state shares their data with Maryland.

Now sure as shootin' a nice person who has a Maryland permit, somehow, will jump aboard and say it's cool if you case it and so forth but that's an arrest waiting to happen, imo.
====

Go in peace and let us know if you have any luck getting a Delaware carry. It seems daunting, bro.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/delaware.pdf
1) Arrange with a newspaper of general circulation in your County to have your application published
once, at least (10) days before the filing of your application with the Court. Obtain an affidavit from
the newspaper company stating that this
requirement has been met, and attach it to your application.
PLEASE NOTE: Newspaper selection must have a circulation of at least 35% of the population in
your zip code. Be sure to use your whole name
-
no initials
-

It goes on to discuss fingerprinting, DNA samples, first born's baby teeth to be sent in, and so on (OK kidding on the last parts).

and your home address
 

The Wolfhound

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
728
Location
Henrico, Virginia, USA
How's this for confusing?

https://www.nps.gov/shen/learn/management/firearm_policy.htm

This means 'no'. (see Wrearick, since non-obviously it's not hunting season, and the National Park police don't want you open carrying.)
-----
https://www.salisburyfirearmsacademy.com/reciprocity

As of 2013, Virginia has rescinded reciprocity with Delaware.
------
But then in 2016 it's (allegedly) back again:
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_Reciprocity.shtm
------
Then the question is how do you get from Delaware to Virginia without passing through Maryland?
https://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html
------
Finally any suggestion that carry in a national park IN Virginia is ok, has the caveat that it's NOT ok, but that one official has allegedly ordered the police not to enforce the law that it's not legal.

This is not the same as being legal.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/may/1/visitors-can-pack-heat-in-virginia-parks/

I have a recollection that the anti- McAuliffe has rescinded the rule or the opinion not to enforce. But even if he has or hasn't he's very anti.
------------
To me, it's not going to happen for you, buddy.

And by that I mean the foreseeable future. The stumbling block is going through Maryland. I would NOT carry a firearm through MD even using the national carry interstate act. (forget the name). I would not doubt that Delaware, a MAY issue state shares their data with Maryland.

Now sure as shootin' a nice person who has a Maryland permit, somehow, will jump aboard and say it's cool if you case it and so forth but that's an arrest waiting to happen, imo.

====

Go in peace and let us know if you have any luck getting a Delaware carry. It seems daunting, bro.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/delaware.pdf
1) Arrange with a newspaper of general circulation in your County to have your application published
once, at least (10) days before the filing of your application with the Court. Obtain an affidavit from
the newspaper company stating that this
requirement has been met, and attach it to your application.
PLEASE NOTE: Newspaper selection must have a circulation of at least 35% of the population in
your zip code. Be sure to use your whole name
-
no initials
-

It goes on to discuss fingerprinting, DNA samples, first born's baby teeth to be sent in, and so on (OK kidding on the last parts).

and your home address

Those exist? In the real world?
 

Marco

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
3,905
Location
Greene County
Hello everyone,

I'm going camping with my girlfriend in the near future and would like to have my handgun readily available to me while in the tent. Am I legally allowed to do this while in my tent? Some states consider your tent to be your "temporary home" but I was unable to find any information on this for the state of Virginia.

If I decide to have my firearm with me while in the tent does it have to be in open sight while in the tent or could I keep it in a bag next to me in the tent?

***I do NOT have a carry permit as of now but am in the process of applying for one in my home state***

Thank you very much for your help!


Answer:
If you can legally possess a firearm outside of a national park, you can possess it in that park on and after February 22, 2010. It is up to visitors to understand the requirements of federal law and the laws of the states/localities they live in or are traveling to (or through). Park websites have been updated to offer basic information about the applicable state law(s) and will generally include a link to a state website with more information.

Since you state you don't have a permit do not conceal carry. Also carry is prohibited inside building/s which NPS employees regularly work, they should be posted at the entrance.

https://www.nps.gov/appa/learn/management/questions-and-answers.htm

I live 6 miles from SNP (RT33 entrance) and visit the park often with at least 3 over night camping trips.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Here is the Public Law.

123 STAT. 1764 -------- PUBLIC LAW 111–24—MAY 22, 2009
SEC. 512. PROTECTING AMERICANS FROM VIOLENT CRIME.
(a) CONGRESSIONAL FINDINGS.—Congress finds the following:
(1) The Second Amendment to the Constitution provides that ‘‘the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed’’.
(2) Section 2.4(a)(1) of title 36, Code of Federal Regulations, provides that ‘‘except as otherwise provided in this section and parts 7 (special regulations) and 13 (Alaska regulations), the following are prohibited: (i) Possessing a weapon, trap or net (ii) Carrying a weapon, trap or net (iii) Using a weapon, trap or net’’.
(3) Section 27.42 of title 50, Code of Federal Regulations, provides that, except in special circumstances, citizens of the United States may not ‘‘possess, use, or transport firearms on national wildlife refuges’’ of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service.
(4) The regulations described in paragraphs (2) and (3) prevent individuals complying with Federal and State laws from exercising the second amendment rights of the individuals while at units of—
(A) the National Park System; and
(B) the National Wildlife Refuge System.
(5) The existence of different laws relating to the transportation and possession of firearms at different units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System entrapped law-abiding gun owners while at units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System.
(6) Although the Bush administration issued new regulations relating to the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens in units of the National Park System and National Wildlife Refuge System that went into effect on January 9, 2009—
(A) on March 19, 2009, the United States District Court for the District of Columbia granted a preliminary injunction with respect to the implementation and enforcement of the new regulations; and
(B) the new regulations—
(i) are under review by the administration; and
(ii) may be altered.
(7) Congress needs to weigh in on the new regulations to ensure that unelected bureaucrats and judges cannot again override the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens on 83,600,000 acres of National Park System land and 90,790,000 acres of land under the jurisdiction of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service.
(8) The Federal laws should make it clear that the second amendment rights of an individual at a unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System should not be infringed.

(b) PROTECTING THE RIGHT OF INDIVIDUALS TO BEAR ARMS IN UNITS OF THE NATIONAL PARK SYSTEM AND THE NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE SYSTEM.—
The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if—
(1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and
(2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.

Also see 16 USC 1a–7b.
 

2a4all

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,846
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
Thanks Wrearick,

It looks like I'll have to leave my handgun back at the house. I can't wait until i get my permit!

The basic premise (so I've heard) for Department of Inland Game & Fisheries is that if you have a visible firearm while on land under their control, you're hunting.

BTW, Virginia honors carry permits from every state since July 1st 2016. Your Delaware permit will be welcome here.

Good luck with your carry permit.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
It is perfectly legal to possess and camp with guns in Virginia National Parks. If no permit, then OC. Your tent is your domicile - carry anyway you like while inside.

As previously mentioned, no guns inside structure where park employees regularly work - very strict sign requirements.

https://www.nps.gov/grca/learn/management/upload/Firearms-in-IMRparks2-2010.pdf

The Department of Inland Game & Fisheries (state agency) has no say in how or where one carries while on NPS (federal property) land.
 
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JamesCanby

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,480
Location
Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
Now sure as shootin' a nice person who has a Maryland permit, somehow, will jump aboard and say it's cool if you case it and so forth but that's an arrest waiting to happen, imo.

Those exist? In the real world?

Yes, they do exist. I have one. The MD law states (paraphrased) that you may carry an unloaded, cased handgun in the trunk or otherwise out of reach of the driver or any passenger, with the ammunition separate from the cased firearm, but you must be traveling to or coming back from a firearms-related event: going to a range, a gun shop, a business that you own, etc. Since you are going "camping," that would not be considered a firearms-related event unless you can convince the officer that the park you are going to is hosting a firearms event. There is a good summary of MD firearms Transport at https://criminallawyermaryland.net/maryland-gun-lawyer/transporting/. (I have no affiliation with this law firm.) Note: You do not have to have a MD Wear and Carry Permit in order to transport a firearm, you just have to adhere to the law on how you are transporting it.

The "interstate law" that was referred to previously is FOPA -- the Firearm Owners' Protection Act -- which states (paraphrased) that if you are traveling from one state where you can legally carry a firearm to another state where you can legally carry a firearm you may pass through a state where you cannot legally carry a firearm, but it must still be cased and out of reach. I doubt most LEOs in MD have ever heard of FOPA. The operative statement in FOPA is that it: Permits the interstate transportation of unloaded firearms by any person not prohibited by Federal law from such transportation regardless of any State law or regulation.

See https://www.congress.gov/bill/99th-congress/senate-bill/49 for the entire law.
 
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color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
The senate bill does not carry any weight. Here is the actual Public Law. http://uscode.house.gov/statutes/pl/99/308.pdf See section 107. Or read 18 USC 926A.

SEC. 107. TRANSPORTATION OF FIREARMS.

(a) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting between section 926 and section 927 the following new section:

"§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms
"Any person not prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport an unloaded, not readily accessible firearm in interstate commerce notwithstanding any provision of any legislation enacted, or any rule or regulation prescribed by any State or political subdivision thereof".

(b)CLERICAL AMENDMENT.—The table of sections for chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting between the item relating to section 926 and the item relating to section 927 the following new item:

"926A. Interstate transportation of firearms.".
 

wrearick

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
650
Location
Virginia Beach, Va.
From the Maryland State Police Page: http://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organization/Pages/CriminalInvestigationBureau/LicensingDivision/FAQs.aspx

"Can I legally transport firearms interstate?



​Yes, under Title 18, Section 926A, of the United States Code, a person who is not prohibited from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment. In the case the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked compartment other than the glove compartment or console.​"

I have some old locking bank deposit bags that I use, one for the firearm, another of ammo when I travel through the state on my way to Michigan. When I am going for hunting I make sure the rifle case does not have any ammo in it. I travel via West Virginia and then up to Pennsylvania on Rte 522. This route only requires me to travel through 3 miles of the socialist state of Maryland and I make sure I don't stop and I don't speed. Heading North there is an old quarry on the west va side of the line that I stop at and disarm/lock up. I then rearm at the PA welcome station. Heading south there is an abandoned gas station the last exit before MD that I disarm and then rearm at the quarry in WV. It shouldn't be this hard but it is.
 
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Roverhound

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
84
Location
Stuarts Draft, Virginia
Please note that laws in the National Parks are not the same as National Forests.
I believe that the information posted above pertains to National Forest and WMA's in Virginia and not the SNP.
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
Thanks to everyone who replied, even though I am not the "interested party".

The OP has to decide if they are going to risk being confronted by a NSP officer who has been TOLD what the law is, as opposed to operating under the strict, correct legal guidelines.

If one has not been stopped by either a MDSP, a National Park ranger (who may be a transplant from a non-permissive state, or a confused newbie park officer, you haven't lived on the wild side, IMO.

Can you remember the tricky language as you cross jurisdictions, not make a mistake, not be stopped, not have the right kind of case or lock or bullets out? Or any of a variety of things...then you are lucky.

I guess I could characterize the list of 'gotchas', but most people here are well aware of them.

Cop interprets the law as he likes and you get it 'sorted out down at the station' - cuffed and stuffed.

Cop tries to incite bumping up probable cause to arrest

Cop conflates the need to 'see' your firearm, or disarm you. You ain't getting it back any time soon.

90% of the time one manages to 'fly under the radar', I'd guess (WAG).

YMMV
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Thanks to everyone who replied, even though I am not the "interested party".

The OP has to decide if they are going to risk being confronted by a NSP officer who has been TOLD what the law is, as opposed to operating under the strict, correct legal guidelines.

If one has not been stopped by either a MDSP, a National Park ranger (who may be a transplant from a non-permissive state, or a confused newbie park officer, you haven't lived on the wild side, IMO.

Can you remember the tricky language as you cross jurisdictions, not make a mistake, not be stopped, not have the right kind of case or lock or bullets out? Or any of a variety of things...then you are lucky.

I guess I could characterize the list of 'gotchas', but most people here are well aware of them.

Cop interprets the law as he likes and you get it 'sorted out down at the station' - cuffed and stuffed.

Cop tries to incite bumping up probable cause to arrest

Cop conflates the need to 'see' your firearm, or disarm you. You ain't getting it back any time soon.

90% of the time one manages to 'fly under the radar', I'd guess (WAG).

YMMV

Were I to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortunes, that would be tantamount to making an investment in my personal account. I will not go quietly into the night.
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
”To be, or not to be- that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them. To die- to sleep-
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heartache, and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to. 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. [ ... ]” Hamlet, III 1 line 1794

You know nightmare actually wrote that from memory, being of highest IQ on the OpenCarry.org webs.

Kudos, my brotha.
ll--ll

T'was brillig and the slivey toaves
Did gyre and gymbal in the wrath
All mimsy were the borograves
The moamwrath outgrabe.

Beware the Jabberwok, my son
With teeth that rind and
Jaws that go snicker-snack

-Lewis Carroll
(from memory...close enough for gubmint work).
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
”To be, or not to be- that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them. To die- to sleep-
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heartache, and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to. 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. [ ... ]” Hamlet, III 1 line 1794

... who could never hit a Nose or an Eye, have with Felicity copied a Small-Pox, or been admirable at a Toad or a Red-Herring.

uh, me thinks the serum levels of your psychotropics is extremely low...are you taking them as prescribed?
 
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