Unusual quiet on the forum. What could be the reason?

Tess said:

My perspective - it's no longer a place for intelligent conversation.

It became insider jokes, deliberate provocation, and right-wing intolerance. Combine it with more heavy-handed moderation than I like, and it's no longer a fun place to visit.

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Please explain "more heavy handed moderation."

Nothing has changed. OCDO still is the same - the rules have not changed

Grapeshot said:

Please explain "more heavy handed moderation."

Nothing has changed. OCDO still is the same - the rules have not changed

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so, you admit you are a tough guy......

color of law said:

so, you admit you are a tough guy......

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What I admit to is trying to be fair and consistent - that is tough sometimes.

OTOH - I will admit to changing my mind upon occasion.

Tess said:

Combine it with more heavy-handed moderation than I like, and it's no longer a fun place to visit.

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The problem is not heavy handed moderation, but such un-even moderation. What is fine for some is a serious offense for others. What is acceptable one day, is an offense the next. When "made calls" are more frequently invoked than articulable violations of the written rules, then the only rule is the moderator's daily whims. Who wishes to guess at that while being routinely insulted by a few favorites being unable to respond in an equitable manner?

I shall offer not much more as I've found that any critique of moderation puts one on a short list looking to be banned. Of course, with both the quantity and quality of content so much suffering as several have observed, being banned is not nearly the penalty it might have been 3 or 4 years ago.

Would that the drop in quality posts really was all about the grand success of the agenda of OCDO. I fear, however, that too many spent their energy here to no effect and have simply given up on all political activism. Tonight's election results in Virginia certainly do not suggest that the fight for our RKBA has been won. I hope that the fight isn't over for very many. Sadly, OCDO is no longer a place to rally together, to share successful tactics, or do much more that is even enjoyable, much less productive in advancing our rights.

To those who actually work to have good effect in the political sphere, best of luck.

In my Opinion the quality of moderation applied has changed for the worse since the passing of Skidmark and PeterNap! Could there be a loss of a moderating influence behind the scenes as a result of the passing of these fine gentlemen?

This forum is not a fun place for me to be anymore. Tess has touched on one reason and UtBagPiper on others. Anyway, I have be a much rarer poster and much more of a lurker tending toward just not participating anymore.

Seeing the negative changes has not be a joyous occasion for me!

We can't blame this on the moderator, we should not need one. The problem is with us, not Grape. Start behaving, and the post counts, and members will return, right now it is just not fun to be here. As seen by the petty arguments that have started in this thread like others.

STOP poking at other members, this should have stopped when one instigator left. STOP bickering with instigators, at some point for the sake of all put them on ignore, or have the mental strength to just pass by their posts. My only complaint of mods is being slow to remove those whose sole purpose is to stir up scat, and discord. But again if we had the will to ignore them they would go away on their own.

Don't blame Grapeshot for what is our fault, and I am including myself in the lot. I am not an angel.

I want to be clear I am not blaming Grapeshot, whom I admire even when I disagree with him about moderation or about anything else. I may not like what I see, but it's not my forum.

Perhaps utbagpiper phrased it more accurately than I with "uneven" - but that's my impression and may or may not be the impression of others. Much more than that is what I see as more interest in finding items or issues on which to instigate conflict than on issues where we might agree. I've also been turned off by the implications or outright statements that those who disagree on issues other than guns must be wrong-headed, stupid, and worthy of belittlement. The general attitude seems to be either "I know more than you" or "I can phrase things in bigger words than you can" or "You're killing America by disagreeing on some issues" -- and I have better things to do.

WalkingWolf said:

We can't blame this on the moderator, we should not need one. The problem is with us, not Grape. Start behaving, and the post counts, and members will return, right now it is just not fun to be here. As seen by the petty arguments that have started in this thread like others.

STOP poking at other members, this should have stopped when one instigator left. STOP bickering with instigators, at some point for the sake of all put them on ignore, or have the mental strength to just pass by their posts. My only complaint of mods is being slow to remove those whose sole purpose is to stir up scat, and discord. But again if we had the will to ignore them they would go away on their own.

Don't blame Grapeshot for what is our fault, and I am including myself in the lot. I am not an angel.

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Nailed it in two places. I hope it holds.

I'm on a few other forums, but this is the only one where the moderator is actively involved in posting. So, when the moderator is in the midst of a heated discussion it can look like his opinion might be influencing his decisions made as a moderator. If I didn't know what position a moderator took, I'd probably be less likely to read something into actions taken.

Maybe this is normal, but I have not seen it; and it seems like it would be difficult to officiate fairly whilst involved in the discussion. Anyway, I'm not a fan of this system. But, that's a symptom of the problem and not the real problem.

Tess said:

I may not like what I see, but it's not my forum.

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This is a key realization for me. At one time it felt like the forum was a bit of common property where the members had some shared responsibilities, not just for how we behaved, but also for quality content including the State law pages, providing accurate information to newbies, as well as helping to set the overall culture of what was or wasn't acceptable. The last couple of years that has changed. It is most certainly now the owner/mod's forum and we merely invited guests at their pleasure, subject to change at any time. That is their absolute right. Choosing to exercise it as they have, affects forum culture, and culture influences behavior.

Tess said:

Perhaps utbagpiper phrased it more accurately than I with "uneven" - but that's my impression and may or may not be the impression of others. Much more than that is what I see as more interest in finding items or issues on which to instigate conflict than on issues where we might agree. I've also been turned off by the implications or outright statements that those who disagree on issues other than guns must be wrong-headed, stupid, and worthy of belittlement. The general attitude seems to be either "I know more than you" or "I can phrase things in bigger words than you can" or "You're killing America by disagreeing on some issues" -- and I have better things to do.

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Another key insight from Tess. While I'm far from perfect, I've long tried to hold out the view and practice that I'll work with any law abiding person on RKBA regardless of disagreement on any other issue. All I require is mutual respect. But there are some here who will absolutely excoriate, or endlessly needle, anyone who disagrees with them on any issue at all. There are others whose primary goal seems to be proving they know more than everyone else. Far too often, that turns into a mob mentality as the "welcoming committee" takes it upon themselves to run off any newbie whose first posts don't conform perfectly to their expectations. There is no longer any meaningful attempt to "work together" on RKBA nor much of anything else (a few fine service projects among the local Virginia crowd is the exception). It is just a place for some to come to pick a fight.

But the problems cannot be blamed entirely on the forum members.

This site used to be the premiere location to get accurate information on gun laws nationwide. When I'm not banned for "ranting", that "State Researcher" under my user name used to actually mean something. I helped the site owner keep the Utah page up to date and accurate. Other, formerly active members did likewise for their States. It has now been years since those pages were updated. They are now not only not useful, but dangerously out of date and inaccurate. Apparently, listing Virginia as "Gold Star Open Carry State" and claiming "total State preemption" is more important than accurately warning gun carriers about local bans on carrying a handgun with a threaded barrel. How often do we see someone posting a link to handgunlaws.us (or whatever it is) when there is a question as to current gun laws? That should be embarrassing to the owners and moderators. It was to me for a while until I realized I had no real stake in this site one way or the other. But it doesn't seem to bother our hosts and I expect to be chastised either publicly or via PM by one or the other and reminded they run the site as they see fit. They certainly do as is their right. The results, however, cannot be denied.

And as the active members who used to focus on keeping references to law up-to-date tire of submitting data into a black hole, they drift away. Or their/our mentality changes. Rather than discussing gun laws and offering citations to back up claims of how various scenarios play out, discussion turns to debate, turns to fights and ongoing insults. Most of us naturally behave differently in a 5-star restaurant than we do in a rough and tumble biker bar. When the culture of a site changes, the behavior on that site changes even if the name stays the same. Some members move on. A new type of poster is attracted. And even many older members may be subject to unconsciously changing their conduct. OCDO is no longer where we stop to check the carry laws of other States before traveling.

Anyway, these are observations. I won't argue about them. Like others, I'm just spending a lot less time even reading, much less posting here. Best of luck.

Wstar425 said:

I'm on a few other forums, but this is the only one where the moderator is actively involved in posting. So, when the moderator is in the midst of a heated discussion it can look like his opinion might be influencing his decisions made as a moderator. If I didn't know what position a moderator took, I'd probably be less likely to read something into actions taken.

Maybe this is normal, but I have not seen it; and it seems like it would be difficult to officiate fairly whilst involved in the discussion. Anyway, I'm not a fan of this system. But, that's a symptom of the problem and not the real problem.

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I am on two S&W forums, Ruger forum, Cast Boolits, and National Gun Forum, on all of them the mods post with the rest of the members. On the Big Blue S&W forum there is a low tolerance, seems to be slipping though on political posts lately. There are disagreements but threads get locked quickly, and some members complain. Ruger forum seems to have the least dissent of them all, and the moderation is very light. Though those who poke at the mods do not last long, and trolls are not tolerated. Which is a problem with OCDO, trolls are allowed to continue to troll, but again if we ignore them they go away.

Keep in mind this is a gun site, and the leaning of members is going to be slanted to the conservative side. Someone that comes here to push against the grain is doing it intentionally. We have a rule for that but it is hardly enforced, or we had such a rule. But I keep coming back to the ignoring the trolls as I did, and still do. Again I am going to throw out the disclaimer flag that I am no angel, before someone else does so not to get off the subject.

With an apology to General Douglas MacArthur:

Duty, Honor, and [strike]Country[/strike] OCDO. The greatest of these is Duty.