Volunteer ham radio opportunities while armed.

TheDavid said:

Wow did this get off the beaten path.

What I was hoping to get was "I have or do volunteer with xyz Organization or group with out issue".

I am not interested in nor do I have the financial means to make an issue. Yes it's in there official rules that you have to agree to in order to apply for membership. I do know for fact that there is case law in Washington that constitutional rights apply to public employees (1st amendment). Not sure if volunteer is extended those same rights but it would make sense to me.

SAR - search and rescue
AARL - amateur radio relay league

Click to expand...

btw, i do know for a fact the league's abbreviation is ARRL not "AARL" as you insist in presenting it to forum members...

further please show where in the ARRL there is a sub-component made up of SAR, i do know for a fact ARES & RACES sub-components exist!!

glad you have the financial resources to donate your equipment for ARES events.

good dialogue started.

Bikenut said:

I am curious. When you were admitted to those various Utah State and local government facilities did the folks there know you were lawfully armed or were you carrying... discreetly... so no one would know and therefor not even be aware of your lawful carry and would have no reason to question you about being armed whether lawfully or not?

Because if you were carrying.... discreetly... and no one knew then saying no one was concerned as if that were some kind of accomplishment for either you or those in those offices is just a bit disingenuous.

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At various times, both. I have OC. I have OC and CC (one or more of each) at the same time. And under such circumstances, even when I've been CCing, the particulars of the circumstance were such that all involved presumed I was carrying.

Utah has its quircks that many can take issue with. When it comes to RKBA, however, it is pretty hard to beat, in total. We do need to crack the nut on permit-free carry (fully loaded OC and/or CC). But in terms of off limits locations and State preemption actually preempting two-bit local dictators, and the pro-RKBA culture that at once allows and is fostered by such laws, pretty hard to beat.

solus said:

i am sure your admittance was escorted while inside the restricted area too.

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Of course it was. Which has what to do with my being legally armed and neither the escort nor anyone else batting an eye? You issued a challenge, ignorant of Utah law and culture as well as my personal situation. I answered your challenge. And now you're moving goal posts? Give it up.

solus said:

and up to your olde tricks of insulting folk still, huh mate! (how did you word insinuate it...i play nice you will, nice to see you keep your conversations civil and follow through with the rules you set up...nice)

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My mild insult was only in response to your insulting and condescending post.

There are only two rational explanations for your choice of words and the tone and tenor of your post.

1-You know full well that suggesting I "toddle over" to a controlled area and demand entry is condescending and insulting and you're now deceitfully trying to feign ignorance and lack of intent. OR

2-You are so tone deaf and socially inept as to how your words are perceived by reasonable men as to make Kim Peek shake his head in unbelief. Your inability to use a shift key would pale in comparison to your inability to understand the most basic of social protocols. Unlike you, Peek actually was a savant. You, OTOH, are not a savant of any form.

Simply put, either through intent and malice, or through gross ignorance and negligence, you drew first blood by insulting me. I only responded. That is all I will ever do. If you can't handle snarky comments, don't dish them out. It is a very simple, consistent consequence for your misbehavior. At least when you don't cry to your buddy (colloquial term of friendship and endearment) to shield you from such mild offenses.

utbagpiper said:

Originally Posted by Bikenut I am curious. When you were admitted to those various Utah State and local government facilities did the folks there know you were lawfully armed or were you carrying... discreetly... so no one would know and therefor not even be aware of your lawful carry and would have no reason to question you about being armed whether lawfully or not?


Because if you were carrying.... discreetly... and no one knew then saying no one was concerned as if that were some kind of accomplishment for either you or those in those offices is just a bit disingenuous.

Click to expand...

At various times, both. I have OC. I have OC and CC (one or more of each) at the same time. And under such circumstances, even when I've been CCing, the particulars of the circumstance were such that all involved presumed I was carrying.

Utah has its quircks that many can take issue with. When it comes to RKBA, however, it is pretty hard to beat, in total. We do need to crack the nut on permit-free carry (fully loaded OC and/or CC). But in terms of off limits locations and State preemption actually preempting two-bit local dictators, and the pro-RKBA culture that at once allows and is fostered by such laws, pretty hard to beat.

Click to expand...

How would you know what other people "presume"? Did you ask them if they knew you were carrying concealed?

As for Utah being such a mecca of freedom to bear arms. Again, if you have to ask permission to be given a permit to carry openly or concealed then the only thing you have to brag about is having a privilege. And those who don't have a permit have no freedom to bear arms at all.

Doesn't seem like such a great State for freedom to exercise the right to bear arms to me.

utbagpiper said:

Of course it was. Which has what to do with my being legally armed and neither the escort nor anyone else batting an eye? You issued a challenge, ignorant of Utah law and culture as well as my personal situation. I answered your challenge. And now you're moving goal posts? Give it up.



My mild insult was only in response to your insulting and condescending post.

There are only two rational explanations for your choice of words and the tone and tenor of your post.

1-You know full well that suggesting I "toddle over" to a controlled area and demand entry is condescending and insulting and you're now deceitfully trying to feign ignorance and lack of intent. OR

2-You are so tone deaf and socially inept as to how your words are perceived by reasonable men as to make Kim Peek shake his head in unbelief. Your inability to use a shift key would pale in comparison to your inability to understand the most basic of social protocols. Unlike you, Peek actually was a savant. You, OTOH, are not a savant of any form.

Simply put, either through intent and malice, or through gross ignorance and negligence, you drew first blood by insulting me. I only responded. That is all I will ever do. If you can't handle snarky comments, don't dish them out. It is a very simple, consistent consequence for your misbehavior. At least when you don't cry to your buddy (colloquial term of friendship and endearment) to shield you from such mild offenses.

Click to expand...

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT MATE IT IS BETTER WITH THE USE OF THE SHIFT KEY...THANKS FOR THE SUGGESTION...

DO YOU KNOW MATE, AS A YOUTH I ALSO PLAYED THE 'YOU ARE SO...' BUT FORUM PROTOCOL PREVENT ME FROM SHOWING YOU HOW IT WAS ACTUALLY PLAYED...

AND HANDLING SNARKY COMMENTS, EH, HOWEVER MATE, THE CONDESCENDING & DEGRADATION INNUENDOS TOWARDS SOMEONE WHO IS IN AUTHORITY ON THIS FORUM IS GETTING OLDE.

YOU KNOW WOULD EXPLAIN THE DEFINITION OF 'GOOD BUDDY' BUT EXQUISITE UPBRINGING PROHIBITS THAT KIND OF COMMENTARY IN MIXED COMPANY.

have a good day mate...

Bikenut said:

How would you know what other people "presume"? Did you ask them if they knew you were carrying concealed?

Click to expand...

No need. The conversation made clear they knew I was armed.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that Utah government employees generally open our State preemption law, and do so not just because it is the law, but also because it is the culture of the State?

Bikenut said:

As for Utah being such a mecca of freedom to bear arms. Again, if you have to ask permission to be given a permit to carry openly or concealed then the only thing you have to brag about is having a privilege. And those who don't have a permit have no freedom to bear arms at all.

Doesn't seem like such a great State for freedom to exercise the right to bear arms to me.

Click to expand...

I freely admit that requiring a permit is offensive to my rights.

On the flip side, once a person has a permit--issued by any government entity in the nation--his practical ability to legally carry a firearm for self defense is very, very good in Utah. I'm not sure one can find a State that is any better. Even the 13 States that have permit-free carry all have more locations off limits, if I'm not horribly out of date on their laws.

In other words, every State has restrictions on citizens' legal ability to carry a gun for self defense. Once we get past theory and rhetoric, and look at practical ability to carry a gun for self defense without fear of prosecution, Utah does very well. With a permit, there is virtually no place that most (non-LDS) are going to go on a day-to-day basis where they cannot legally carry their guns. This in contrast to a State where no permit is needed, but there remains a long list of locations (not the least of which are the gun free school zones imposed by federal law) where it is illegal to actually carry a gun.

We all pick our poison and perhaps you and I have both chosen our respective States of residence well for our personal priorities.

solus said:

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT MATE IT IS BETTER WITH THE USE OF THE SHIFT KEY...THANKS FOR THE SUGGESTION...

DO YOU KNOW MATE, AS A YOUTH I ALSO PLAYED THE 'YOU ARE SO...' BUT FORUM PROTOCOL PREVENT ME FROM SHOWING YOU HOW IT WAS ACTUALLY PLAYED...

AND HANDLING SNARKY COMMENTS, EH, HOWEVER MATE, THE CONDESCENDING & DEGRADATION INNUENDOS TOWARDS SOMEONE WHO IS IN AUTHORITY ON THIS FORUM IS GETTING OLDE.

YOU KNOW WOULD EXPLAIN THE DEFINITION OF 'GOOD BUDDY' BUT EXQUISITE UPBRINGING PROHIBITS THAT KIND OF COMMENTARY IN MIXED COMPANY.

have a good day mate...

Click to expand...

It appears to me our local not a savant continues to demonstrate his mastery of English language usage, his sanctimonious superiority, and his on-going instance to insult anyone who dares "challenge" him.

Small minds get noses bent out of shape easily it seems.

Just my $0.02 worth.

utbagpiper said:

It appears to me our local not a savant continues to demonstrate his mastery of English language usage, his sanctimonious superiority, and his on-going instance to insult anyone who dares "challenge" him.

Small minds get noses bent out of shape easily it seems.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Click to expand...

mate, please have a nice day...

utbagpiper said:

It appears to me our local not a savant continues to demonstrate his mastery of English language usage, his sanctimonious superiority, and his on-going instance to insult anyone who dares "challenge" him.

Small minds get noses bent out of shape easily it seems.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Click to expand...

no you are not worth the 2 sense you lack..

utbagpiper said:

Originally Posted by Bikenut
How would you know what other people "presume"? Did you ask them if they knew you were carrying concealed?

Click to expand...

No need. The conversation made clear they knew I was armed.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that Utah government employees generally open our State preemption law, and do so not just because it is the law, but also because it is the culture of the State?

Click to expand...

Thank you for the clarification.

utbagpiper said:

Originally Posted by Bikenut
As for Utah being such a mecca of freedom to bear arms. Again, if you have to ask permission to be given a permit to carry openly or concealed then the only thing you have to brag about is having a privilege. And those who don't have a permit have no freedom to bear arms at all.

Doesn't seem like such a great State for freedom to exercise the right to bear arms to me.

Click to expand...

I freely admit that requiring a permit is offensive to my rights.

On the flip side, once a person has a permit--issued by any government entity in the nation--his practical ability to legally carry a firearm for self defense is very, very good in Utah. I'm not sure one can find a State that is any better. Even the 13 States that have permit-free carry all have more locations off limits, if I'm not horribly out of date on their laws.

In other words, every State has restrictions on citizens' legal ability to carry a gun for self defense. Once we get past theory and rhetoric, and look at practical ability to carry a gun for self defense without fear of prosecution, Utah does very well. With a permit, there is virtually no place that most (non-LDS) are going to go on a day-to-day basis where they cannot legally carry their guns. This in contrast to a State where no permit is needed, but there remains a long list of locations (not the least of which are the gun free school zones imposed by federal law) where it is illegal to actually carry a gun.

We all pick our poison and perhaps you and I have both chosen our respective States of residence well for our personal priorities.

Click to expand...

Frankly I find touting how many places a person can carry either openly or concealed as long as they have a permit to be nothing to tout at all since without a permit, without the government of Utah's permission, no person can carry anywhere openly or concealed.

You might try to justify having to ask for permission by thinking being allowed to carry in many places is somehow better than more restrictive States but it is still having to ask for permission. And what is worse is even open carry needs a permit. At least, even though there are restrictions, open carry in Michigan does not need a permit. Yep, anyone can open carry in Michigan with no permit needed. To my mind, even though there are restrictions, that is more freedom than Utah.

Added to say:
Just as an aside...
I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard someone say... "I know I have the right to carry a gun. All I have to do is go get a permit!".

Bikenut said:

Frankly I find touting how many places a person can carry either openly or concealed as long as they have a permit to be nothing to tout at all since without a permit, without the government of Utah's permission, no person can carry anywhere openly or concealed.

You might try to justify having to ask for permission by thinking being allowed to carry in many places is somehow better than more restrictive States but it is still having to ask for permission. And what is worse is even open carry needs a permit. At least, even though there are restrictions, open carry in Michigan does not need a permit. Yep, anyone can open carry in Michigan with no permit needed. To my mind, even though there are restrictions, that is more freedom than Utah.

Click to expand...

I get it. For me, it is a matter of practicality.

If I can carry without a permit, but only in a very small number of the places my daily schedule takes me, that is far less beneficial than if I can carry everywhere I go at the cost of a shall issue, low cost permit.

If, OTOH, I can carry without a permit most everywhere I go, then that is huge.

Personally, since I have children attending school, my schedule routinely takes me onto school grounds and into school buildings. The federal GFSZ law requires me to either disarm, or have a permit. Going without a permit is not an option for me, personally until such time as my kids are all grown or we get the federal GFSZ tossed or repealed.

Bikenut said:

I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard someone say... "I know I have the right to carry a gun. All I have to do is go get a permit!".

Click to expand...

I understand the semantics. At some point, however, it comes down to practicality. If the permit is shall-issue, if the cost is not prohibitive, if the courts rule a permit must be available or if political culture is such it can't just be repealed tomorrow, we start to move into gray areas between privilege and right. Fully respected, a right requires no permit.

As an analogy, I can print and publish all I want. If I expect to operate a full newspaper, I might well expect to have to get a business license and comply with various employment laws, local zoning, and OSHA requirements. Has my "right" to speak or print freely been infringed? To some degree yes. But if the requirements to run the business are content neutral, I'm not sure the infringements rise to the level of practical concern.

Politics is the art of the possible. It is also the art of getting 320 million people in this nation (or 10 million in any given State) to live together mostly in peace. The purists and the theory is good to keep us pointed in the right direction. It is the pragmatists who actually keep us moving.

All the best.

solus said:

btw, i do know for a fact the league's abbreviation is ARRL not "AARL" as you insist in presenting it to forum members...

further please show where in the ARRL there is a sub-component made up of SAR, i do know for a fact ARES & RACES sub-components exist!!

glad you have the financial resources to donate your equipment for ARES events.

good dialogue started.

Click to expand...

The David,

Please forgive the lonely member for his ongoing and never ending trolling. This is a game the lonely troll seems to enjoy and gets away with.

Most rational folks would understand that Search and Rescue can be greatly augmented by use of persons who have experience and training in SAR and also emergency communications (not dispatchers for the local community, city, county ) but from volunteers such as Amateur Radio Emergency Services (ARES) trained folks who have the equipment needed and have developed the associated skills.

FreedomLover said:

The David,

Please forgive the lonely member for his ongoing and never ending trolling. This is a game the lonely troll seems to enjoy and gets away with.

snippp...

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please be very careful of the degrading innuendo path you are treading down in an apparent effort to boast your own ego and personal status for whatever rational you have manifested which you believe will bolster your self esteem/worth on this forum.

understand freedomlover, philosophical differences abound based on member's educational background and life experiences they bring to this forum as the topics being discussed are presented not from a upper view but down to arguing about the meaning of the 'and' 'or' and throw into hypothetically 'what if' which has developed personality conflicts, some who emotionally lash out during discussions.

what these venues, forums, FB, ad nauseam, lack is the ability to read the non-verbal feedback from the individual posters. as such, some might perceive someone's commentary as being terse to the point of being rude/harsh; other's commentary might be perceived as irreverent - but if you read their posts they provide an insight you hadn't seen; and other poster's post are emotionalized subjective material w/o any type of objective reference to their presentation.

some members consider requests for clarification to their posted material a personal challenge, unfortunately the concept serves to quantify the material for other members to provide an adequate response facilitating further discussion among forum members.

the thrust of this post...you joined less then 90 days ago and have 28 posts under your belt and for whatever reason your decision to begin are calling this member a troll is based on what objective evidence and could diminish your future forum credibility among other members.

remember there are two or more sides to every controversy.

solus said:

please be very careful of the degrading innuendo path you are treading down in an apparent effort to boast your own ego and personal status for whatever rational you have manifested which you believe will bolster your self esteem/worth on this forum.

understand freedomlover, philosophical differences abound based on member's educational background and life experiences they bring to this forum as the topics being discussed are presented not from a upper view but down to arguing about the meaning of the 'and' 'or' and throw into hypothetically 'what if' which has developed personality conflicts, some who emotionally lash out during discussions.

what these venues, forums, FB, ad nauseam, lack is the ability to read the non-verbal feedback from the individual posters. as such, some might perceive someone's commentary as being terse to the point of being rude/harsh; other's commentary might be perceived as irreverent - but if you read their posts they provide an insight you hadn't seen; and other poster's post are emotionalized subjective material w/o any type of objective reference to their presentation.

some members consider requests for clarification to their posted material a personal challenge, unfortunately the concept serves to quantify the material for other members to provide an adequate response facilitating further discussion among forum members.

the thrust of this post...you joined less then 90 days ago and have 28 posts under your belt and for whatever reason your decision to begin are calling this member a troll is based on what objective evidence and could diminish your future forum credibility among other members.

remember there are two or more sides to every controversy.

Click to expand...

LOOOONG time lurker who has done a lot of reading. I believe I have previously demonstrated this by certain facts!

Moderator, pleas feel free to close this thread as it is way out of order. I will not be checking back in.

TheDavid said:

Moderator, pleas feel free to close this thread as it is way out of order. I will not be checking back in.

Click to expand...

We shall take that as a request to close it.