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Volunteer ham radio opportunities while armed.

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utbagpiper

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I don't expect every organization to have a very pro-RKBA policy that endorses or encourages or even explicitly permits private possession of a firearm.

Having no position at all is fine. Don't ask, don't tell works ok for me too.

An official policy against firearms that is not actively enforced, that doesn't carry threats of criminal prosecution or expulsion can still be excused under the misguided fears of "liability" so long as the operative policy on the ground is effectively "don't ask, don't tell."

I'm involved in several organizations where official policy is "no guns", but possession is legal under statute. There is no effort to detect or prevent private firearms and it appears to me the official policy is really about CYA for organizations that are at risk of being targeted by ambulance chasers.

In such instances I do as I do at the one or two local businesses (Costco and one theater) that are either posted or have official policies against otherwise lawful possession: I carry discretely and keep it to myself.

If I ever need the gun, I and others will be happy I had it and whatever penalty a private organization can impose (loss of membership) will be small price to pay for protecting innocent life and limb. Until then, what I have tucked into my pocket, waistband, fanny pack, or backpack, is nobody's business.

I emphasize, I obey the law and will not carry where the law prohibits me from doing so. I will also--one way or another--respect a man's home and his holy ground, regardless of law.

But there are times and places where CC provides the advantage of allowing me to carry legally, without worrying about some unenforced private CYA policy.

OTOH, if an organization is actively and overtly anti-RKBA, I would probably choose not to volunteer my time there. ARRL and ARES sound quite hostile, at least at the national level. Maybe mileage varies in various local groups.
 

utbagpiper

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I am looking for opportunities to volunteer as a ham radio operator. I use to volunteer with a city but have moved.

If various organizations are very hostile to RKBA, I'd look for other places to volunteer. I know our local ham club gets several request a year for communications support at events like marathons, bicycle races, and other events.

Search and Rescue volunteers are truly doing the work of angels. And I could abide a "don't ask, don't tell, keep it discrete" policy. But if there is a hard and enforced rule against carrying, I think I'd just choose not to volunteer. Especially given the amount of time such volunteers spent in wilderness areas. I'd look for other worthy events where some form of lawful carry (be it OC or CC) were at least tacitly acceptable.
 

FreedomLover

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I don't expect every organization to have a very pro-RKBA policy that endorses or encourages or even explicitly permits private possession of a firearm.

Having no position at all is fine. Don't ask, don't tell works ok for me too.

An official policy against firearms that is not actively enforced, that doesn't carry threats of criminal prosecution or expulsion can still be excused under the misguided fears of "liability" so long as the operative policy on the ground is effectively "don't ask, don't tell."

I'm involved in several organizations where official policy is "no guns", but possession is legal under statute. There is no effort to detect or prevent private firearms and it appears to me the official policy is really about CYA for organizations that are at risk of being targeted by ambulance chasers.

In such instances I do as I do at the one or two local businesses (Costco and one theater) that are either posted or have official policies against otherwise lawful possession: I carry discretely and keep it to myself.

If I ever need the gun, I and others will be happy I had it and whatever penalty a private organization can impose (loss of membership) will be small price to pay for protecting innocent life and limb. Until then, what I have tucked into my pocket, waistband, fanny pack, or backpack, is nobody's business.

I emphasize, I obey the law and will not carry where the law prohibits me from doing so. I will also--one way or another--respect a man's home and his holy ground, regardless of law.

But there are times and places where CC provides the advantage of allowing me to carry legally, without worrying about some unenforced private CYA policy.

OTOH, if an organization is actively and overtly anti-RKBA, I would probably choose not to volunteer my time there. ARRL and ARES sound quite hostile, at least at the national level. Maybe mileage varies in various local groups.
I fully support ANYONE who can lawfully carry and chooses to do so in a lawful manner! Carry ON!
 

FreedomLover

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If various organizations are very hostile to RKBA, I'd look for other places to volunteer. I know our local ham club gets several request a year for communications support at events like marathons, bicycle races, and other events.

Search and Rescue volunteers are truly doing the work of angels. And I could abide a "don't ask, don't tell, keep it discrete" policy. But if there is a hard and enforced rule against carrying, I think I'd just choose not to volunteer. Especially given the amount of time such volunteers spent in wilderness areas. I'd look for other worthy events where some form of lawful carry (be it OC or CC) were at least tacitly acceptable.

I do believe in Utah there are at least one if not more Amateur Radio Emergency Services (ARES) groups that have County support via the sheriffs department where the sheriff departments or any other political entity under the state legislature are actually prohibited by state law from having or enforcing any policy prohibiting the lawful carry or possession of a firearm unless the legislature has passed a specific law allowing them to do so! I have not found anything in state law to allow any County, City, Municipality, or town to prohibit the possession of firearms EXCEPT in specific secure locations spelled out by statute.
 

color of law

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I do believe in Utah there are at least one if not more Amateur Radio Emergency Services (ARES) groups that have County support via the sheriffs department where the sheriff departments or any other political entity under the state legislature are actually prohibited by state law from having or enforcing any policy prohibiting the lawful carry or possession of a firearm unless the legislature has passed a specific law allowing them to do so! I have not found anything in state law to allow any County, City, Municipality, or town to prohibit the possession of firearms EXCEPT in specific secure locations spelled out by statute.
If that is the law of your state the sheriff cannot interfere with your carry. The private origination can say you cannot represent their org. if you carry. It's that simple.
 

FreedomLover

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If that is the law of your state the sheriff cannot interfere with your carry. The private origination can say you cannot represent their org. if you carry. It's that simple.

And the penalty for ignoring the private entity (if caught) would not be anything criminal or even an infraction of civil law.
 
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solus

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And the penalty for ignoring the private entity (if caught) would not be anything criminal or even an infraction of civil law.

you can be trespassed at a minimum and if a stink is raised, no longer invited to participate in ARES activities ~ probably blacklisted to be candid since it is a closed network of volunteers who have no compunction to hold back on the gossip.

do no get sucked in on another member's rhetoric about their lawful carry on private property after signing a contract with the entity saying they won't!

there is ethical considerations.

kudos, a first...never seen nightmare slam anybody...you must be someone special FreedomLover ~ congrats
 
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utbagpiper

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Normally these activities function in restricted emergency management country/regional facilities and 'civilians' are not authorized to carry by their SOPs.

That would depend on the particulars of the jurisdiction in which the facilities are located. I don't claim to know the law in Washington State. Those living or visiting there should certainly become familiar with the law and abide said law.

But I know in Utah, most such facilities are not off limits to lawful carry by civilians. Further, Utah State law prevents local authorities from banning guns from any location not on the State off limits list. I trust Utah is not the only State where "preemption" actually means preemption. So what is "normal" may not be at all what you claim, but rather be entirely dependent on jurisdiction.
 

utbagpiper

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If that is the law of your state the sheriff cannot interfere with your carry. The private origination can say you cannot represent their org. if you carry. It's that simple.

They can say that. But how do they know if you are carrying discreetly?

And what would our reaction be if a private, secular, service organization refused to allow persons of color to represent their organization? Or refused to allow someone to participate based on sexual orientation, or religious affiliation?

I can certainly respect the view that someone doesn't care to affiliate with or support an organization that isn't friendly to RKBA. I also believe we ought to be respectful of others' sensitivities and phobias. Decent men don't hold up spiders in the face of arachnophobes. But I don't have any problem with those who--in full compliance with the law--choose to carry discreetly even if others around them don't like the idea of guns.

Personally, I will do my level best to respect a man's home and his holy ground. But when it comes to business property open to the public, or a gathering on public property, I feel no obligation beyond basic manners not to be disruptive or distracting. In many cases, that means I OC and others can deal. In some instances, CC is appropriate.
 

utbagpiper

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I do believe in Utah there are at least one if not more Amateur Radio Emergency Services (ARES) groups that have County support via the sheriffs department where the sheriff departments or any other political entity under the state legislature are actually prohibited by state law from having or enforcing any policy prohibiting the lawful carry or possession of a firearm unless the legislature has passed a specific law allowing them to do so! I have not found anything in state law to allow any County, City, Municipality, or town to prohibit the possession of firearms EXCEPT in specific secure locations spelled out by statute.

That is a very good point. Thank you.

Our OP--and other interested parties--are well advised to become thoroughly acquainted with applicable law in their jurisdictions so they can determine what is or is not lawful not only for them as private citizens, but also for police departments, sheriffs, and other government agents. Individuals are then in a position to make an informed choice about whether to openly challenge anti-self-defense rules, to legally carry in contradiction of rules that are not legally enforceable, or to pursue some other course of action.

I believe the current, best one-stop location for getting a first level familiarity with the gun laws of the several States is handgunlaw.us . OCDO used to be the hands-down best. But these days, one is best advised to start with the other location, and then move on to his own State's official website or code books.
 

Mainsail

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They can say that. But how do they know if you are carrying discreetly?
For me it demonstrates their security awareness, or lack thereof. If they believe that in the middle of a disaster everyone is going to be civil and cooperative, they are being overly optimistic. It used to be that way for the most part, but times have changed and too many thugs see disaster zones as a smorgasbord of criminal opportunity. If the people that want me to volunteer my time are too clueless to recognize that, I want nothing to do with the organization.
 

solus

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That would depend on the particulars of the jurisdiction in which the facilities are located. I don't claim to know the law in Washington State. Those living or visiting there should certainly become familiar with the law and abide said law.

But I know in Utah, most such facilities are not off limits to lawful carry by civilians. Further, Utah State law prevents local authorities from banning guns from any location not on the State off limits list. I trust Utah is not the only State where "preemption" actually means preemption. So what is "normal" may not be at all what you claim, but rather be entirely dependent on jurisdiction.

please try an experiment for the good of the conversation and toddle over and into VECC with your official OC'd (or sloppily CC'd) firearm on and ask to go to the communications portion of the center where the work-a-bees are, not the administrative staff such as the chief's offices are!

by the way mention you are part of the discussion going on about carry of firearms into emergency communication facilities...they are expecting you

let's us know the outcome...

ipse
 

utbagpiper

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please try an experiment for the good of the conversation and toddle over and into VECC with your official OC'd (or sloppily CC'd) firearm on and ask to go to the communications portion of the center where the work-a-bees are, not the administrative staff such as the chief's offices are!

by the way mention you are part of the discussion going on about carry of firearms into emergency communication facilities...they are expecting you

let's us know the outcome...

I'll leave the toddling to those who have trouble using the shift key properly.

I don't expect I'll be admitted into certain areas regardless of whether I'm armed or not. As I've noted repeatedly, in certain States going armed into some areas would be a crime and I discourage any criminal conduct.

I can tell you that when I've had legit reason to be admitted to various Utah State and local government facilities that are normally not open to the public, but are not on the gun ban list, I've been admitted without any concern as to whether I was lawfully armed or not.

If your concern were really with whether conduct was lawful or practically permitted or not, you might join me in discouraging unlawful conduct when the usual anarchists see how close they can get to encouraging violation of laws without drawing censure from the mods. But of course, your angst has nothing to do with criminal conduct and everything to do with personality. So I won't hold my breath.

Now, please "toddle" along to something other than trolling.
 
B

Bikenut

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I'll leave the toddling to those who have trouble using the shift key properly.

I don't expect I'll be admitted into certain areas regardless of whether I'm armed or not. As I've noted repeatedly, in certain States going armed into some areas would be a crime and I discourage any criminal conduct.

I can tell you that when I've had legit reason to be admitted to various Utah State and local government facilities that are normally not open to the public, but are not on the gun ban list, I've been admitted without any concern as to whether I was lawfully armed or not.

If your concern were really with whether conduct was lawful or practically permitted or not, you might join me in discouraging unlawful conduct when the usual anarchists see how close they can get to encouraging violation of laws without drawing censure from the mods. But of course, your angst has nothing to do with criminal conduct and everything to do with personality. So I won't hold my breath.

Now, please "toddle" along to something other than trolling.
Bold added for emphasis....

I am curious. When you were admitted to those various Utah State and local government facilities did the folks there know you were lawfully armed or were you carrying... discreetly... so no one would know and therefor not even be aware of your lawful carry and would have no reason to question you about being armed whether lawfully or not?

Because if you were carrying.... discreetly... and no one knew then saying no one was concerned as if that were some kind of accomplishment for either you or those in those offices is just a bit disingenuous.
 
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solus

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I'll leave the toddling to those who have trouble using the shift key properly.

I don't expect I'll be admitted into certain areas regardless of whether I'm armed or not. As I've noted repeatedly, in certain States going armed into some areas would be a crime and I discourage any criminal conduct.

I can tell you that when I've had legit reason to be admitted to various Utah State and local government facilities that are normally not open to the public, but are not on the gun ban list, I've been admitted without any concern as to whether I was lawfully armed or not.

If your concern were really with whether conduct was lawful or practically permitted or not, you might join me in discouraging unlawful conduct when the usual anarchists see how close they can get to encouraging violation of laws without drawing censure from the mods. But of course, your angst has nothing to do with criminal conduct and everything to do with personality. So I won't hold my breath.

Now, please "toddle" along to something other than trolling.

i am sure your admittance was escorted while inside the restricted area too.

and up to your olde tricks of insulting folk still, huh mate! (how did you word insinuate it...i play nice you will, nice to see you keep your conversations civil and follow through with the rules you set up...nice)

please have a nice day...
 
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FreedomLover

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please try an experiment for the good of the conversation and toddle over and into VECC with your official OC'd (or sloppily CC'd) firearm on and ask to go to the communications portion of the center where the work-a-bees are, not the administrative staff such as the chief's offices are!

by the way mention you are part of the discussion going on about carry of firearms into emergency communication facilities...they are expecting you

let's us know the outcome...

ipse

It seems to me that the solus one may be suggesting someone violate the law in Virginia. Seems to fall short of "advocating for lawful carry"
 

TheDavid

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Auburn, wa
Wow did this get off the beaten path.

What I was hoping to get was "I have or do volunteer with xyz Organization or group with out issue".

I am not interested in nor do I have the financial means to make an issue. Yes it's in there official rules that you have to agree to in order to apply for membership. I do know for fact that there is case law in Washington that constitutional rights apply to public employees (1st amendment). Not sure if volunteer is extended those same rights but it would make sense to me.

SAR - search and rescue
AARL - amateur radio relay league
 
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