Teacher charged with possession of firearm on school grounds

First time poster and long time lurker here. I post this for opinions and possibly any contacts or aid. The teacher charged is actually an old friend and former classmate of mine.

http://www.thecentralvirginian.com/...h-possession-of-a-firearm-on-school-property/

Cliff Note Version:
Automotive teacher is a ccw holder
Had loaded gun in trunk at school
Volunteered his car for a project for automotive students
During project his trunk was opened, gun found by a student
He's placed on paid leave, but charged with possession of firearms on school grounds
Has full community/school board/superintendent support

It is my understanding that a chl/ccw (whatever terminology you prefer) holder could have loaded gun on school grounds as long as it was in the trunk or glovebox. And if you weren't a permit holder it had to be unloaded in an enclosed container. Am I errouneous in this thinking? Please edify me!

Thanks for your time!

[h=1]2006 Code of Virginia § 18.2-308.1 - Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited[/h]https://law.justia.com/codes/virginia/2006/toc1802000/18.2-308.1.html

There is an exception found elsewhere allowing 'secured' (glove box or console) storage of handgun while picking up or discharging a student on school grounds.

Grapeshot said:

[h=1]2006 Code of Virginia § 18.2-308.1 - Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited[/h]https://law.justia.com/codes/virginia/2006/toc1802000/18.2-308.1.html

There is an exception found elsewhere allowing 'secured' (glove box or console) storage of handgun while picking up or discharging a student on school grounds.

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Exceptions:

18.2-308.016; (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade; (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot , traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school;

Does this mean he would have had to stay with the vehicle to be in compliance with the law simply because it was loaded? A trunk is considered a closed container, no?

Edit: Also, the law reads "knowingly" on each section. Does intent have to be proven? I'm sure he did not have them work on his car, "knowing" that he had a loaded handgun in the trunk.

What a shame that a person trusted with the education and other welfare of young people throughout the course of the school day, a person who has also passed a background check and been granted a permit to carry a firearm, is now facing criminal charges because he had an otherwise lawful firearm in the trunk of his car that just happened to be parked on school property.

Every State (and the federal government) has areas of law that can be improved upon to better respect RKBA. Fortunately, in most cases, a State can look to other States to see how changes in that section of law have worked out.

Utah needs to catch up to a growing number of other States that have decriminalized permit-free carry (OC or CC) of a fully loaded, usable firearm.

Sounds like Virginia needs to look to the growing number of States that respect carry permits on school grounds.

Best of luck to your friend. Sounds like it is time for a good criminal defense lawyer. I'm sure the Virginia members can offer recommendations.

BR9GC said:

Exceptions:

18.2-308.016; (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade; (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot , traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school;

Does this mean he would have had to stay with the vehicle to be in compliance with the law simply because it was loaded? A trunk is considered a closed container, no?

Edit: Also, the law reads "knowingly" on each section. Does intent have to be proven? I'm sure he did not have them work on his car, "knowing" that he had a loaded handgun in the trunk.

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"Closed container" is specifically defined as "secured container' and includes only glove box and console NOT trunk.

Conversely, he did not knowingly make sure he was in compliance - that is the problem as he was not apparently.

I wish him no ill..

The terms of my employment do not allow me to possess my firearms on company property. As detestable as I find this, I know it and follow it. He should have known better. Such (editorial comment: "STUPID") policies are never hidden.

The Wolfhound said:

The terms of my employment do not allow me to possess my firearms on company property. As detestable as I find this, I know it and follow it. He should have known better. Such (editorial comment: "STUPID") policies are never hidden.

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Terms of employment are one thing. My job says no firearms, I knowingly take the risk anyway, I'd rather be fired for bringing my gun to work, than left dead on a downtown street because I didn't have it. This is more about the legal ramifications of where and where you can't not have a firearm with you.

Grapeshot said:

"Closed container" is specifically defined as "secured container' and includes only glove box and console NOT trunk.

Conversely, he did not knowingly make sure he was in compliance - that is the problem as he was not apparently.

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While it could be different for California, because California is well....California. A Closed container is "A “locked container” is a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. A locked container includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but not the utility or glove compartment." -- I would think the glovebox would be considered not secured as it is readily accessible

Not trying to argue with the information given here, it just seems the statue is very vague and terms like "locked container" "secured" are not defined.

This issue comes up periodically.

§ 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited; penalty.

B. If any person knowingly possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he is guilty of a Class 6 felony.
"The exemptions set out in §§ 18.2-308 and 18.2-308.016 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school...For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk."

§ 18.2-308. Carrying concealed weapons; exceptions; penalty.

C. Except as provided in subsection A of § 18.2-308.012, this section shall not apply to:
8. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel;

Note that the possession of a loaded firearm is only permitted "while in a motor vehicle"

18.2-308.016 applies to retired LEOs.

Sorry, but this individual screwed up (like airline passengers who "forgot" that their handgun was in their carry-on luggage). His error was that he left his loaded firearm in his unattended vehicle. If you're going to get out of your vehicle, you must disarm, unload and store your firearm in a closed container prior to driving onto school property.

while the OP indicated mr smith had full support of BoE, school administrators etc., how did the nice LEs get involved?

someone, somewhere in the scheme of things, got cranky about the firearm ~ student? parent? another teacher? office staff? someone!

was mr smith in the immediate area to assure immediate control of the his firearm? or

did the students inappropriately handle the found firearm until an adult came upon them?

whom is pressing charges?

solus said:

..... whom is pressing charges?

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my guess would be Commonwealth of Virginia

Nightmare said:

Who is used as the subject of a sentence or clause, to denote who is doing something (like he or she). Whom is used as a direct or indirect object of a verb or preposition.

If the question is answered with “he or she,” then use who. If the question is answered with “him or her,” then use whom.

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With all due respect, Nightmare: Grammar schools generally start with basic spelling, punctuation, and capitalization rules. They expect these to be mastered before moving the student on to such advanced subjects as diagraming sentences to determine the subject or the indirect object.

I'm afraid you're providing meat to someone still struggling with milk.

utbagpiper said:

With all due respect, Nightmare: Grammar schools generally start with basic spelling, punctuation, and capitalization rules. They expect these to be mastered before moving the student on to such advanced subjects as diagraming (sic) sentences to determine the subject or the indirect object.

I'm afraid you're providing meat to someone still struggling with milk.

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there are those P/A innuendo type insults mate...

and nightmare, shall i save you a seat across the room for the lecture: per Purdue's owl ~ In American English, the word whom is not used very often. "Whom" is more formal than "who"...

notice nowhere does it say it is incorrect...

Nightmare said:

Colic is the very least of my prayers for himself alone, apoplexy would suit me fine.

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For himself alone such would be entirely just. But pity his poor caretakers. Certainly someone in his condition must have someone helping with basic life skills.

utbagpiper said:

For himself alone such would be entirely just. But pity his poor caretakers. Certainly someone in his condition must have someone helping with basic life skills.

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ah mate, you are going to get this locked down for the continued innuendo insults...

solus said:

----snipped--

and nightmare, shall i save you a seat across the room for the lecture: per Purdue's owl ~ In American English, the word whom is not used very often. "Whom" is more formal than "who"...

notice nowhere does it say it is incorrect...

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There is a distinct difference.

'Who' is the subject of a clause.

'Whom' is the object.

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/who-versus-whom