• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Gun violence?

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
There is only violence in the real world. In the liberal world all other violence is OK, as long as a gun is not used.
 

MamaLiberty

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
894
Location
Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
I'd truly love to see all "people of the gun" stop using these stupid phrases and replace them with some rational version. Gun control = people control. Gun violence = violence using a gun. Gun deaths = homicide using a gun. Gun free zones = disarmed victim zone.

Come on folks. Of course we know what they really mean, but if we use them without explaining, it can only confuse people who don't know.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I'd truly love to see all "people of the gun" stop using these stupid phrases and replace them with some rational version. Gun control = people control. Gun violence = violence using a gun. Gun deaths = homicide using a gun. Gun free zones = disarmed victim zone.

Come on folks. Of course we know what they really mean, but if we use them without explaining, it can only confuse people who don't know.
When good people do nothing..........
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
The implement employed to cause a homicide should not be a factor...dead is dead regardless of the implement.

Anti-2A liberals desire complete gun confiscation. No hunting firearms, no self defense firearms. Cops are not going to disobey/disregard firearm confiscation orders. Cops will enter private property without a warrant to confiscate "formerly lawfully possessed" firearms if directed to do so by their masters.

We have a clearly established right to life, though, cops can unlawfully take our life and not be held to too high a degree of accountability, if held to any sort of accountability at all...qualified immunity. Do not depend on a cop to hold his fellow cop to account.

The courts have muddied the waters on our clearly established right to individual liberty...Terry v. Ohio.

The courts have completely abrogated our clearly established right to property...Kelo v. New London.

We must not directly engage the vocal anti-2A crowd at every instance. We must engage our fellow citizens who are the observer and present to them the facts, then let our fellow citizens decide where they stand...on the side of individual liberty, or on the side of government tyranny (liberalism).

It is obvious that the vast majority of our fellow citizens know the facts and continue to side with individual liberty as demonstrated by their vote. However, we must never take this for granted. Constant vigilance is required and our never ending efforts to present the facts, to encourage our fellow citizens to continue to vote for the restoration of individual liberty.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
The implement employed to cause a homicide should not be a factor...dead is dead regardless of the implement.

Anti-2A liberals desire complete gun confiscation. No hunting firearms, no self defense firearms. Cops are not going to disobey/disregard firearm confiscation orders. Cops will enter private property without a warrant to confiscate "formerly lawfully possessed" firearms if directed to do so by their masters.

We have a clearly established right to life, though, cops can unlawfully take our life and not be held to too high a degree of accountability, if held to any sort of accountability at all...qualified immunity. Do not depend on a cop to hold his fellow cop to account.

The courts have muddied the waters on our clearly established right to individual liberty...Terry v. Ohio.

The courts have completely abrogated our clearly established right to property...Kelo v. New London.

We must not directly engage the vocal anti-2A crowd at every instance. We must engage our fellow citizens who are the observer and present to them the facts, then let our fellow citizens decide where they stand...on the side of individual liberty, or on the side of government tyranny (liberalism).

It is obvious that the vast majority of our fellow citizens know the facts and continue to side with individual liberty as demonstrated by their vote. However, we must never take this for granted. Constant vigilance is required and our never ending efforts to present the facts, to encourage our fellow citizens to continue to vote for the restoration of individual liberty.

per NHTSA: 2016 data shows 37,461 people were killed in 34,436 motor vehicle crashes, an average of 102 per day.

per CDC: Among the more than 64,000 drug overdose deaths estimated in 2016, the sharpest increase occurred among deaths related to fentanyl and fentanyl analogs (synthetic opioids) with over 20,000 overdose deaths.

per FBI: 12k homicides by firearms

per CDC: total number of successful suicide deaths: 44,193; by firearms successful suicide deaths: 22,018

and you are absolutely correct OC, we must quit trying to enter the lion's den to argue our point to w/o emotion and bravado, present and convince JQPublic to show the irrational BS being presented by antis as they advance their cause.
 
Last edited:

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
I have found that those who talk about "gun violence" are far more interested in eradicating private ownership of guns than they are in reducing criminal violence.

For all the talk of how the US compares with other nations, notice the selective comparisons. We are a nation of ~330 million persons with a high degree of diversity in terms of race, ethnicity, national origin, religious views, anti-religious views, cultural values, etc. Our nation covers a good chunk of an entire continent.

Against whom are we compared? Japan with 126 million racial, ethnically, culturally highly homogenous citizens and a dominant culture so strong that it doesn't even think bigotry or xenophobia is a bad thing?

Or maybe England. An island nation of 55 million. France? 66 million with a government office whose job it is to preserve the integrity and purity of their language. Germany? 80 million people whose grandparents were responsible for starting both world wars?

The Canadians? Turns out Utah has effectively the same homicide rate as does Canada.

Sweden, Norway, Denmark? Switzerland?

Notice against whom the US is never compared: Mexico, Venezuela. Why not? Because their citizens are brown and speak Spanish? Or because they have drug wars or other problems? Well, what is the cause of most of the violence in this nation if not the war on drugs?

Northern Ireland. Why not? Because their violence was specifically due to religious and political differences? How much of our nation's angst is due to differences on the role religion should play in public life? Or is it simply because Northern Ireland was having violence?

Russia or any of the former Soviet/Eastern bloc nations? Why not? Because Eastern Europe is expected to be violent? Because they have never emerged from the dark ages? Did not Yugoslavia host a wonderful winter Olympics back in the 80s a few years before social order broke down and genocide set in?

We are never compared to any African nation. Why not? Racism? Why isn't the US constantly in a state of open warfare among our various States, regions, ethnic groups, etc?

Can anyone find me many nations of comparable size, geographic area, and cultural/racial/religious diversity to the USA that have a lot lower violent crime rate? I'm thinking that the gun haters compare us only to nations that are currently peaceful (That whole French Revolution things was kind of a cluster I recall). Any nation with serious violence is excluded for one reason or another. Turns out that tyrannical governments, civil war, and genocide can turn a 1st world nation into a 3rd world cesspit pretty quickly.

And even among the nations to which we are compared, the comparison is always the dishonest and meaningless comparison of "gun deaths". Sure, because being knifed to death, run over by a truck, or killed by an IED are somehow less dead, less maimed than if a gun were used.

Compare violent crime to violent crime, or homicide to homicide. We are not in terrible shape comparatively.
 
Top