Everett Mall OC

Stephen_ · Apr 1, 2018

Hello Everyone,

I want to thank everyone involved in this forum for such a great resource.

I made a trip over to the West side a while back and one of my stops was Everett Mall. I stopped in several shops with no issue. Then I walked past the information booth. The lady manning the booth stared hard at me and picked up the phone. I saw it coming. I was approached by a security guard who politely told me that he understands my 2A rights but I was making other guests uncomfortable. Would I please cover my gun up?

I have a CPL and didn't want to make a scene so I complied.

After the fact it occurred to me that I should have explained to him that he could very well have been asking me to break the law. He had no idea if I had a CPL when he asked me to conceal.

Grapeshot · Apr 1, 2018

IMO, he is not asking you to break the law when he asked you "could" you please cover it up.

color of law · Apr 1, 2018

Grapeshot said:
IMO, he is not asking you to break the law when he asked you "could" you please cover it up.

In support of Grapeshot, you were an invitee and as an invitee you were asked to respect other invitee's feelings. Nothing illegal about that. I believe conceal carry only applies on public property as to being a crime without a license.

solus · Apr 1, 2018

Stephen_ said:
Hello Everyone,

I want to thank everyone involved in this forum for such a great resource.

I made a trip over to the West side a while back and one of my stops was Everett Mall. I stopped in several shops with no issue. Then I walked past the information booth. The lady manning the booth stared hard at me and picked up the phone. I saw it coming. I was approached by a security guard who politely told me that he understands my 2A rights but I was making other guests uncomfortable. Could I please cover my gun up?

I have a CPL and didn't want to make a scene so I complied.

After the fact it occurred to me that I should have explained to him that he could very well have been asking me to break the law. He had no idea if I had a CPL when he asked me to conceal.

Most large malls across this nation have no weapons policies, Everett Mall is no different:

quote:
The Everett Mall, including its parking lots, is private property. The following Code of Conduct is set forth for thepurpose of protecting the Mall’s legitimate business interests. Any violation of the Code interferes with thecommercial nature and function of the Mall. As a visitor on the property, you are prohibited from engaging in anyof the following activities while on the property.
1. Except for law enforcement officials, carrying weapons of any kind is prohibited. unquote.

https://cdn.imaginuitycenters.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/128/2017/10/25205724/OpsClings7-12.pdf

oh sorry forgot, welcome to the forum...

MamaLiberty · Apr 1, 2018

I was "asked" once to take my OC gun to the car. No argument... though I knew she was violating the store's actual policy. I said I was sorry the store no longer wanted my business, left the cart full of merchandise in that person's hands and simply walked away. If my gun isn't welcome, I'm gone. And no BS about concealing either. If I wanted to carry that way, I will. But it will be my own idea.

color of law · Apr 1, 2018

MamaLiberty said:
I was "asked" once to take my OC gun to the car. No argument... though I knew she was violating the store's actual policy. I said I was sorry the store no longer wanted my business, left the cart full of merchandise in that person's hands and simply walked away. If my gun isn't welcome, I'm gone. And no BS about concealing either. If I wanted to carry that way, I will. But it will be my own idea.

What would have been the outcome if they had said "pretty please with sugar on top?"

MamaLiberty · Apr 1, 2018

color of law said:
What would have been the outcome if they had said "pretty please with sugar on top?"

No difference. I don't play those games. I own my life and body, and I'm the only one who is responsible for my life and safety. That's why I carry a gun. Not subject to anyone else's approval or "comfort."

Stephen_ · Apr 1, 2018

solus said:
Most large malls across this nation have no weapons policies, Everett Mall is no different:

quote:
The Everett Mall, including its parking lots, is private property. The following Code of Conduct is set forth for thepurpose of protecting the Mall’s legitimate business interests. Any violation of the Code interferes with thecommercial nature and function of the Mall. As a visitor on the property, you are prohibited from engaging in anyof the following activities while on the property.
1. Except for law enforcement officials, carrying weapons of any kind is prohibited. unquote.

https://cdn.imaginuitycenters.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/128/2017/10/25205724/OpsClings7-12.pdf

oh sorry forgot, welcome to the forum...

I didn't research the mall policies before stopping in.

Perhaps it is a narrow view but I expected that if they had a problem with OC that there would be some kind of notice at the entrance. I was mistaken.

Stephen_ · Apr 1, 2018

Grapeshot said:
IMO, he is not asking you to break the law when he asked you "could" you please cover it up.

Perhaps I did not communicate it clearly . He asked me to conceal my pistol.

deanf · Apr 1, 2018

I believe conceal carry only applies on public property as to being a crime without a license.

Defend your contention.

Stephen_ · Apr 1, 2018

color of law said:
In support of Grapeshot, you were an invitee and as an invitee you were asked to respect other invitee's feelings. Nothing illegal about that. I believe conceal carry only applies on public property as to being a crime without a license.

My point was that he had no idea if I had a CPL or not. If I didn't, then concealing it would have been a crime.

If you are implying that concealed carry in the shopping mall, without a CPL, is legal because it is private property I disagree. My best understanding is that the laws regarding concealed carry apply in any "public place " which includes stores, restaurants, movie theaters etc. All of which are "private property".

I could be mistaken but until I see RCWs that confirm, I will choose to ear on the side of caution.

solus · Apr 1, 2018

Stephen_ said:
My point was that he had no idea if I had a CPL or not. If I didn't, then concealing it would have been a crime.

If you are implying that concealed carry in the shopping mall, without a CPL, is legal because it is private property I disagree. My best understanding is that the laws regarding concealed carry apply in any "public place " which includes stores, restaurants, movie theaters etc. All of which are "private property".

I could be mistaken but until I see RCWs that confirm, I will choose to ear (sic) on the side of caution.

No Stephen, my personal observation coupled with a leap of faith from your recollection of security guard's comments was he is a supporter and doesn't believe in the mall's firearm policies and was nicely telling you to cover your firearm so you didn't have to go back to your vehicle and feel comfortable.

But it is just a leap of faith and personal observation.

Stephen_ · Apr 1, 2018

solus said:
No Stephen, my personal observation coupled with a leap of faith from your recollection of security guard's comments was he is a supporter and doesn't believe in the mall's firearm policies and was nicely telling you to cover your firearm so you didn't have to go back to your vehicle and feel comfortable.

But it is just a leap of faith and personal observation.

I may not have been clear in my first post. I think that we are on the same page.

To clarify my points:

The security guard was very polite and I have no problem there.

I wanted to share that Everett Mall is not OC friendly.

Asking me to conceal was well intentioned but could have been asking me to break the law. The next guy they ask may not have a CPL.

Thank you for all of your replies.

Stephen

color of law · Apr 1, 2018

deanf said:
Defend your contention.[/COLOR]

I qualified my answer with the term "BELIEVE." "believe" means hold (something) as an opinion; think or suppose. There I defended my contention.

Second, other than a bar, it is impossible to quote a law that doesn't exist.

Wstar425 · Apr 1, 2018

I’m surprised the guard didn’t ask you to remove the firearm (and maybe yourself?) from the building. It sounds like at least two people knew you were armed, the guard as well as the information booth person. More than likely no one else noticed, otherwise they would have confronted you somewhere else other than just passing the info booth. If carrying is against the “Policy” (I read the linked policy) then it matters not whether the guard sympathizes with 2A or not, he should do his job. Being as at least two people noticed, the fact of you being there armed was not going to remain much of a secret.

You didn’t really ask for advice, but........Once you were made aware of it being against policy, you “probably” should have headed for the nearest exit, along with your wallet. I don’t see where it was your job to inform the security guard that he might possibly be directing you to break some law. He doesn’t make or change policy, he’s likely liable for a reprimand if he in fact told you to cover instead of leave. Maybe cover as you leave is what he meant?

Ultimately, one might have returned firearm to your vehicle, then re-entered mall unarmed with any purchases to return post haste with explicit instructions to retailer as to the reason. But, that would be a pretty drastic reaction I suppose.........

Inside malls are pretty much a thing of the past here, the few remaining, in dire straits. Welcome to the forum. Finally, I certainly understand that things are rarely as cut and dried as to an answer that fits all circumstances. So, just my opinion, worth what you paid for it.

Stephen_ · Apr 1, 2018

Wstar425 said:
I’m surprised the guard didn’t ask you to remove the firearm (and maybe yourself?) from the building. It sounds like at least two people knew you were armed, the guard as well as the information booth person. More than likely no one else noticed, otherwise they would have confronted you somewhere else other than just passing the info booth. If carrying is against the “Policy” (I read the linked policy) then it matters not whether the guard sympathizes with 2A or not, he should do his job. Being as at least two people noticed, the fact of you being there armed was not going to remain much of a secret.

You didn’t really ask for advice, but........Once you were made aware of it being against policy, you “probably” should have headed for the nearest exit, along with your wallet. I don’t see where it was your job to inform the security guard that he might possibly be directing you to break some law. He doesn’t make or change policy, he’s likely liable for a reprimand if he in fact told you to cover instead of leave. Maybe cover as you leave is what he meant?

Ultimately, one might have returned firearm to your vehicle, then re-entered mall unarmed with any purchases to return post haste with explicit instructions to retailer as to the reason. But, that would be a pretty drastic reaction I suppose.........

Inside malls are pretty much a thing of the past here, the few remaining, in dire straits. Welcome to the forum. Finally, I certainly understand that things are rarely as cut and dried as to an answer that fits all circumstances. So, just my opinion, worth what you paid for it.

Thanks for your reply.

For clarification :

I didn't point out the potential issues with covering my pistol. I didn't think of it at the moment.

Lots of people knew I was carrying. It was a 1911 on my hip. Not subtle by any stretch.

The guard did not mention policy. He simply said that I was making other guests uncomfortable.

Wstar425 · Apr 1, 2018

Stephen_ said:
Thanks for your reply.

For clarification :

I didn't point out the potential issues with covering my pistol. I didn't think of it at the moment.

Lots of people knew I was carrying. It was a 1911 on my hip. Not subtle by any stretch.

The guard did not mention policy. He simply said that I was making other guests uncomfortable.

Ok, I guess if your position is you weren’t aware of the no gun but LE policy when you entered the mall, that changes things some. I was replying under the impression you knew (not sure why). All malls I’ve ever been in were no gun, but I haven’t been in them all! So, I have no real issues with anything you did.

I will assume the guard was aware of the no gun policy tho, and I stand by my assertion that he dropped the ball as far as his job goes. You did what he asked/told you, and apparently it all worked out in the end since you’re not writting from a jail cell or minus one firearm!

I OC a 226 Sig, not a small firearm either and I maintain few people notice, tho it’s hard to be sure, some people could be doing a great job of hiding their shock and dismay. It appears to me that most people are busy with children or on their phone and fairly clueless to their surroundings. But, I guess that is another discussion.

Question: What are you going to do if you go back to that mall again?

Stephen_ · Apr 1, 2018

Wstar425 said:
Ok, I guess if your position is you weren’t aware of the no gun but LE policy when you entered the mall, that changes things some. I was replying under the impression you knew (not sure why). All malls I’ve ever been in were no gun, but I haven’t been in them all! So, I have no real issues with anything you did.

I will assume the guard was aware of the no gun policy tho, and I stand by my assertion that he dropped the ball as far as his job goes. You did what he asked/told you, and apparently it all worked out in the end since you’re not writting from a jail cell or minus one firearm!

I OC a 226 Sig, not a small firearm either and I maintain few people notice, tho it’s hard to be sure, some people could be doing a great job of hiding their shock and dismay. It appears to me that most people are busy with children or on their phone and fairly clueless to their surroundings. But, I guess that is another discussion.

Question: What are you going to do if you go back to that mall again?

I rarely ever visit shopping malls. That was my first visit to EM in 20 years.

Given my recent awareness of their policy it is unlikely that I will ever go back. I do my best to spend my $ in places where I feel welcome.

If I had to go back I would have to decide whether I want to trust the unarmed 19 year old to protect me or to violate the policy and concealed carry.

color of law · Apr 1, 2018

Stephen_ said:
I rarely ever visit shopping malls. That was my first visit to EM in 20 years.

Given my recent awareness of their policy it is unlikely that I will ever go back. I do my best to spend my $ in places where I feel welcome.

If I had to go back I would have to decide whether I want to trust the unarmed 19 year old to protect me or to violate the policy and concealed carry.

And, if you did , how would they know??????

Stephen_ · Apr 1, 2018

color of law said:
And, if you did , how would they know??????

They wouldn't. But I would.

I tend to play by the rules. I will make exceptions if I feel that my safety may be compromised.

The easy solution is for me to take my $ and spend them where I (and my 1911) are welcome.

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