Living/Walking around school gun free zones

I have a question regarding living around a school gun free zone, and my ability to carry concealed. I live within the 1000 feet gun free zone of a high school. There is mostly likely over 1000 people within this radius. Will I be violating Virginia or Federal law if I concealed carry with a CC permit while walking from my place of residence to my local grocery store about 3 blocks away?

I understand that the sidewalk is considered state or municipal public property. I understand that the exemptions refer to that you are okay to carry with a CC permit while in a vehicle within the school's parking lot or driving through the 1000 foot radius, but I unsure of foot traffic like walking to the metro station which is a couple blocks in the opposite direction.

I cannot address Virginia law, but federal law you are OK. I lived next to a school for over 20 years. And there were two other schools within 1000 feet of my house.

[h=2]18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.[/h][FONT=&quot]Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

So if you're not brandishing, you should be fine. Keep it holstered. Better yet, CC.[/FONT]

Update

Ok, I have spoken with Pat Webb at Virginia Citizens Defense League, and I think I am all sorted out now.

The part of the Virginia law and exceptions that I was concerned with was "(vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school;"

Where it states "or other means of vehicular ingress or egress" seems be referring to walking or some other form transport (bus, taxi, train, etc..) that is not done in a personal vehicle, and that I am okay if I have the proper CHP

Another update

carverebain said:

Ok, I have spoken with Pat Webb at Virginia Citizens Defense League, and I think I am all sorted out now.

The part of the Virginia law and exceptions that I was concerned with was "(vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school;"

Where it states "or other means of vehicular ingress or egress" seems be referring to walking or some other form transport (bus, taxi, train, etc..) that is not done in a personal vehicle, and that I am okay if I have the proper CHP

Click to expand...

Ok, what I assumed (you all know what that means) was incorrect. After a call with Pat from VCDL, once I have my CHP then the 1000 foot radius from the federal law no longer applies, and is overridden by VA state law. I can carry concealed on the sidewalk just not on school property, and just to be safe, he said it might be best to walk on the other side of the street but either sidewalk should be fine with the CHP.

carverebain said:

Ok, I have spoken with Pat Webb at Virginia Citizens Defense League, and I think I am all sorted out now.

The part of the Virginia law and exceptions that I was concerned with was "(vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school;"

Where it states "or other means of vehicular ingress or egress" seems be referring to walking or some other form transport (bus, taxi, train, etc..) that is not done in a personal vehicle, and that I am okay if I have the proper CHP

Click to expand...

You realize that "walking" is not an "other means of vehicular ingress or egress", right?

carverebain said:

Ok, what I assumed (you all know what that means) was incorrect. After a call with Pat from VCDL, once I have my CHP then the 1000 foot radius from the federal law no longer applies, and is overridden by VA state law. I can carry concealed on the sidewalk just not on school property, and just to be safe, he said it might be best to walk on the other side of the street but either sidewalk should be fine with the CHP.

Click to expand...

The federal law is not overridden by state law; the federal law exempts individuals with carry permits issued by the state in which the school is located from the 1,000' exclusion.

I would caution you about the sidewalks & streets in front of schools. School grounds can (and do) extend beyond these "boundaries", which give the appearance of a "non-school" property area. For example, there is an elementary school near me which is actually at the end of two streets that connect via the front driveway and the the school's parking lot (i.e. driving along either street towards the school requires you to cross school property to reach the other street and drive away from the school). If you were walking, I don't know that you can skirt the school property. It's certainly not obvious.

BTW, "he" is a "she".

2a4all said:

You realize that "walking" is not an "other means of vehicular ingress or egress", right?



The federal law is not overridden by state law; the federal law exempts individuals with carry permits issued by the state in which the school is located from the 1,000' exclusion.

I would caution you about the sidewalks & streets in front of schools. School grounds can (and do) extend beyond these "boundaries", which give the appearance of a "non-school" property area. For example, there is an elementary school near me which is actually at the end of two streets that connect via the front driveway and the the school's parking lot (i.e. driving along either street towards the school requires you to cross school property to reach the other street and drive away from the school). If you were walking, I don't know that you can skirt the school property. It's certainly not obvious.

BTW, "he" is a "she".

Click to expand...

Yup, the vehicular ingress/egress part confused me. I thought that in this sense it meant "while in transit" but it literally means to be in a car/truck. Thanks for the clarifications. I can pretty easily get around the part of sidewalk I refer to, and go a block out of my way. But with that 1000 foot radius, like alot of us feel: if we could get rid of the gun free zones then there would be less loss of life and fewer headaches.
Yeah, I talked to her over the phone, and heard the voice (I'm also going deaf, not really an excuse) and again just assumed. So, oops my bad. It was a nice conservation, and I am going to join VCDL when I get paid this weekend.

I’ve been walking 2 blocks (facing traffic, no sidewalk) down the off side of the street from a school for almost two years now, open carry. (In Wisconsin, so not sure how relevant?) My wife is the District Administrator, and the 7 local cops all know me, so that may not be a fair comparison. I do have my German Shepherd on a 10” leash, and I’m sure some people think I’m LE.

The first couple times, before they knew me I had a couple squad cars go by both ways, one paced me for half a block. But, no one stopped me or even tried to talk to me. Word got around pretty quickly who I was, small town. I try NOT to be there when school is starting or ending, as much that my dog is not all that friendly, and I don’t want 25 kids crowding around me, as for the gun itself.

I have my WI CCL, and I have decided that I will show that and ID if requested, since I am in the 1000 ft zone, as a defense, even tho I’m not concealed. This has been discussed here before with differing opinions, it’s just what I’ve decided. I’d prefer for neither me nor my dog to get shot. I see arguments both ways on this. It shouldn’t be a problem for me unless I run into a new officer, or maybe County or State Patrol, but the school is pretty well off the beaten path.

I have thought about what I would do if I heard gunshots from inside the school while walking past and have not come up with an answer I’m entirely happy with. Again, my wife is in there and she is one that would most certainly insert herself between a shooter and her kids. Every Monday, the rest of the week I am 60-600 miles away.

Fed law would be the same, State law might differ some? For one thing, we CAN NOT carry in a vehicle into the school parking lot, unless unloaded and encased. There is a sidewalk on the school side, but I’m not positive who owns it so I’ve elected to walk down the street facing traffic. Our town probably has sidewalks on 1/4 of the properties, maybe, so there’s lots of walkers on the streets besides me.

I attend local Board of Supervisor and school board meetings and sometimes shop at the local grocery which are just across the street from the schools in my county, with no issue.
The Sheriff is usually in attendance at the BOS meetings and at times so are VSP Troopers.

I apologize that I have not read all the comments above, and at the risk of redundency, I'll throw in my two cents' worth:

If you have a resident CHP issued by Virginia, and you're in proximity to a school in Virginia, then fed law on the "gun-free-safe-school-zone" doesn't apply because of an exemption. That exemption doesn't work if you're in a state other than that which issued the permit or if the permit is a nonresident permit.

If you have a CHP you can have a gun in a vehicle on school property as long as you stay on the paved surfaces with it. Otherwise, no guns allowed on school property, buses, at sporting events, or other school functions. Note that the courthouse rule doesn't apply here - you can't have a gun on school property because you're there to attend a community function, or at a meeting held in the rented school auditorium, even if you keep only to the places where such event is occurring. (Courthouses that are also municipal offices are only courthouses in the places were court functions are performed, and the rest of the building is open-carry legal.)

user said:

If you have a resident CHP issued by Virginia, and you're in proximity to a school in Virginia, then fed law on the "gun-free-safe-school-zone" doesn't apply because of an exemption. That exemption doesn't work if you're in a state other than that which issued the permit or if the permit is a nonresident permit.

Click to expand...

Could you clarify the underlined portion? I could be missing it but I don't see where the Federal GFSZA makes a distinction between resident and non-resident permits, as long as it is issued by the sate the school is located in.

user said:

I apologize that I have not read all the comments above, and at the risk of redundency, I'll throw in my two cents' worth:

If you have a resident CHP issued by Virginia, and you're in proximity to a school in Virginia, then fed law on the "gun-free-safe-school-zone" doesn't apply because of an exemption. That exemption doesn't work if you're in a state other than that which issued the permit or if the permit is a nonresident permit.

If you have a CHP you can have a gun in a vehicle on school property as long as you stay on the paved surfaces with it. Otherwise, no guns allowed on school property, buses, at sporting events, or other school functions. Note that the courthouse rule doesn't apply here - you can't have a gun on school property because you're there to attend a community function, or at a meeting held in the rented school auditorium, even if you keep only to the places where such event is occurring. (Courthouses that are also municipal offices are only courthouses in the places were court functions are performed, and the rest of the building is open-carry legal.)

Click to expand...

Not according to [h=2]18.2-283.1. Carrying weapon into courthouse.[/h][FONT=&quot]It is unlawful for any person to possess in or transport into any courthouse in this Commonwealth any (i) gun or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile or projectile of any kind; (ii) frame, receiver, muffler, silencer, missile, projectile, or ammunition designed for use with a dangerous weapon; or (iii) other dangerous weapon, including explosives, stun weapons as defined in § 18.2-308.1, and those weapons specified in subsection A of § 18.2-308. Any such weapon shall be subject to seizure by a law-enforcement officer. A violation of this section is punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The provisions of this section shall not apply to any police officer, sheriff, law-enforcement agent or official, conservation police officer, conservator of the peace, magistrate, court officer, judge, city or county treasurer, or commissioner or deputy commissioner of the Virginia Workers' Compensation Commission while in the conduct of such person's official duties.

I'm not seeing any limitation for the places were court functions are performed.[/FONT]

2a4all said:

Not according to 18.2-283.1. Carrying weapon into courthouse.

It is unlawful for any person to possess in or transport into any courthouse in this Commonwealth any (i) gun or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile or projectile of any kind; (ii) frame, receiver, muffler, silencer, missile, projectile, or ammunition designed for use with a dangerous weapon; or (iii) other dangerous weapon, including explosives, stun weapons as defined in § 18.2-308.1, and those weapons specified in subsection A of § 18.2-308. Any such weapon shall be subject to seizure by a law-enforcement officer. A violation of this section is punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor.
The provisions of this section shall not apply to any police officer, sheriff, law-enforcement agent or official, conservation police officer, conservator of the peace, magistrate, court officer, judge, city or county treasurer, or commissioner or deputy commissioner of the Virginia Workers' Compensation Commission while in the conduct of such person's official duties.

I'm not seeing any limitation for the places were court functions are performed.

Click to expand...

I think that comes under the Common Law and criminal/civil law definitions of "Court House/court room."

JustaShooter said:

Could you clarify the underlined portion? I could be missing it but I don't see where the Federal GFSZA makes a distinction between resident and non-resident permits, as long as it is issued by the sate the school is located in.

Click to expand...

Hmmm.

Interesting thought. One that I had not entertained before. You may be right, but I do not want to be a test case.

Grapeshot said:

I think that comes under the Common Law and criminal/civil law definitions of "Court House/court room."

Click to expand...

Do you have a cite for this?

I have not been to any courthouse that would allow me to enter the building while armed. Entrance was only through a specific door, staffed by a sheriff's deputy, requiring passage through a metal detector, and signs clearly prohibiting weapons & cell phones, among other things. And yes, non-court functions were housed there.

Grapeshot said:

I think that comes under the Common Law and criminal/civil law definitions of "Court House/court room."

Click to expand...

2a4all said:

Do you have a cite for this?

I have not been to any courthouse that would allow me to enter the building while armed. Entrance was only through a specific door, staffed by a sheriff's deputy, requiring passage through a metal detector, and signs clearly prohibiting weapons & cell phones, among other things. And yes, non-court functions were housed there.

Click to expand...

Not that I can quote or link at the moment.

This thinking is a result of past conversations with a highly regarded individual who made his living on 2nd Amendment cases.

There was a time when I could apply for and then pick up my CHP from the Clerk of Court within the Court House in Chesterfield, Va while armed. Sadly, that has changed.