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Thread: Pa Leo response

  1. #1
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    I did not know Pa was open carry state until i found this and the other site, so i thought i would talk with our local chief and get his thoughts. The cheif is a friend or so i thought, i asked him if he had any problem with O.C. HIS ANSWER was it was legal but you may very well get throwen on the ground by my guys while they might not know it is legal. I said after this meeting make sure they know the law, as i do. Pa constatution says i have the right to protect myself from the state-------- and others. after this i drove to PA State police barricks and ask the same question State trooper ansered my question and says there is no problem with them, but did say i would encounter trouble with other LEOs, as not all are up on the laws.BS i have to know the laws to be a good citizen but in there job they dont bother, go figure? I am six three 280 and a lumber jack i will let you guys know if i hit the pavement. Ps Thanks for the nice site i have been lurking for a while now.

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    I couldn't agree withyoumore. There has always been a double standard for LEOs. Cops should be required to know the laws inside and out better than anyone else, but ether they are uneducated in the law oroften justignore it. Keep up the good work ofinforming all who are misinformed.

  3. #3
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    If it makes you feel any better, I do a lot of consulting in the Allentown area and open carry whenever I am there.

    For what it is worth, I have never had a problem with any PA LEO (knock on wood).

  4. #4
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    I think the important thing is that the LEO is open minded enough to listen and check things out. Look at the Code of any of the states. They are huge.

    No way a LEO can know all of that. The lawyers even disagree on various provisions of the law.

    I do believe the LEO should act professionally and give the law abiding citizen the benefit of the doubt. Also, when they are wrong, they should take it seriously enough to actively educate their fellow officers.

    Last year in Virginia at the Capitol, some LEO's were contemplating the arrest of an armed citizen. They even consulted a magistrate who said that the citizen broke the law. Members of the VCDL were on the scene and pointed out additional paragraphs in the law that clearly showed that the citizen was acting legally.

    The LEO's thanked them for their help. They knew that the VCDL saved them from a false arrest suit. They said that they would pass the word to their fellow officers.

    This is what I expect of LEO's.........professionalism.

    To throw a citizen on the ground and treat them like a criminal without KNOWING POSITIVELY that you are right is reprehensible. Since the Chief knows that officers don't understand the law, it is hisDUTY to re-educate the ones under his control.

    Whew...........my knees are getting too old for me to step up on the soap box!

  5. #5
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    It seems to me the real problem is training. The liberal bureacrats apparently don't like our rights, and therefore they are not represented in police training. If police were trained that open carry was legal in PAand how to deal with it, then they wouldn't need to look through some law book after hastling us because they would already know that we are legal. btw, I live and open carry around Pittsburgh and have not had any problems for the year I've been carrying so far.

  6. #6
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    Maybe PA needs a PCDL, patterned after VCDL.

    Nothing like a little organization to help educate the public and LE on these matters.

  7. #7
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    You complain they (LEO) should know the law, bt you yourself don't know it. You state "Pa constatution says i have the right to protect myself from the state-------- and others."

    WRONG

    The right of the citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

    You do NOT have a PA constitutional right to defend yourself from the state, you MAY however have a US CONSTITUTIONAL right to do so.

  8. #8
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    I that recommend folks do NOT play 20 questions with LEOs on open carry - putting them on the spot is bad form and asking for extremely cautious and conservative answers.

    It's best to do your own research and obtain legal advice if you need it from an attorney.

  9. #9
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    Thats right, thats why in VA I carry the VA code with me along with newspaper articles of other LEOS that have had to return weapons and apologize to citizens to avoid false arrest lawsuits, that pretty much shuts them up and you are on your may.

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    usatracy wrote:
    Thats right, thats why in VA I carry the VA code with me along with newspaper articles of other LEOS that have had to return weapons and apologize to citizens to avoid false arrest lawsuits, that pretty much shuts them up and you are on your may.
    What code do you carry and where can I get a copy?

  11. #11
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    More on the PA Constitution:
    "Section 1. All men are born equally free and independent, and have certain inherent and indefeasible rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring, possessing and protecting property and reputation, and of pursuing their own happiness.
    Section 2. All power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority and instituted for their peace, safety and happiness. For the advancement of these ends they have at all times an inalienable and indefeasible right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think proper."

    Now, to the statutes:
    18 Pa.C.S.ยง 5301:

    "A person acting or purporting to act in an official capacity or taking advantage of such actual or purported capacity commits a misdemeanor of the second degree if, knowing that his conduct is illegal, he:


    1. subjects another to arrest, detention, search, seizure, mistreatment, dispossession, assessment, lien or other infringement of personal or property rights; or
    2. denies or impedes another in the exercise or enjoyment of any right, privilege, power or immunity."



    1. It seems that any police officer not recognizing (without question per Section 21 of the state constitution) a citizen's right to openly carry does so at his/her own peril. Concealed carry is deemed a privilege, therefore open carry must be the RIGHT referred to in our constitution (per Murdock v. Commonwealth we cannot be required to pay a fee to exercise a right).
      Ignorance of the law is no excuse. They know the law well enough to dig up the most minor infraction to harass us when it suits them, and canoften cite a half dozen or so code violations applicable to any given behavior.

  12. #12
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    A chief of police saying something like "Yes, it's legal but my guys might not know it" is TOTALLY unacceptable. And MtnJack's answer was right on the money:

    "If they don't know it now, Chief, you better explain it to them posthaste, or there's gonna be some problems, and they might be costly for your department."

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