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King County Experiences

sandy

Regular Member
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
102
Location
, Washington, USA
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Cue-Ball wrote:
2PAK wrote:
To set the record straight, I am for using commonsense...
I'm curious as to what the rules of "common sense" are...
I started this thread to cover OC experiences in King County, so I'll step in and say that we're getting off topic now. This is a natural progression from the original posts, but this thread is not an open conversation; it's supposed to be on a specific topic. If you'd like to continue to discuss the merits of open carry in general, let's start a new thread to make things easier to keep track of. I'd appreciate it if we could just drop this discussion here under the King County topic.

--Sandy (WA)
 

Gray Peterson

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May 12, 2006
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Lynnwood, Washington, USA
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I've been doing a lot more open carry in Federal Way since the training bulletin was sent out about it's legality.

There's a local grocery chain called "Winco" that I visit frequently. The food there is cheap, and they have good pizza.

Anyway, my room mates and myself decided to all make a run there together to get food and other stuff. I was open carrying.

The only problem I had in there was that there was a woman making rather interesting hand gestures, and absolute shock and horror at my open carry. She started talking to her husband or brother or whoever (Someone her age who was male) and he just shrugged his shoulders.

About 15 minutes later I got a lottery ticket at the front counter after doing all of my grocery shopping, got a pizza at Leonardi's (Winco's pizza joint), and then I left to go outside. As I was loading up my car with groceries for my houshold, I saw a Federal Way squad car rather quickly drive towards the front of the store and park on the front store sidewalk, and a female officer walking inside. Now, keep in mind that when I saw the car my left side was out to the street, my gun side was my right.

So I'm wondering if the woman called, or the counter employee called, or if they were even there for me.

Needless to say I'm paying attention to the local police blotter and seeing if there was a "man with a gun" call reported. I for the most part left at that point. Best not invite trouble. I think it was the woman who was hand gesturing frantically.
 

jchen012

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Oct 4, 2006
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144
Location
Bellevue, WA, ,
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First off I just wanted to say that I've been a long time lurker and just joined to commend Sandy and Lonnie's efforts at pushing OC. Personally I would never OC (I live in Seattle and I believe that CC is more tactically sound), however perhaps if I was out of the city I would love to OC. Regardless just wanted to thank both of you.

In response to 2PAC, I can see where he is coming from. I would feel uncomfortable OCing in a crowded mall too, but we all have to start somewhere. I doubt Rosa Parks wanted do her historial refusal on a bus, but that was how it happened. I would have done it at a segregated restaurant or restroom. Yet that bus incident led to the desegregation of all facilities. It may not be a smart move to OC in Bellevue Square, but it is definately in the right direction. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense...

PS I go to Bellevue Square alot and if I ever see someone OCing, I would run up to that person (hoping it was Sandy or Lonnie) and shake their hand =P
 

44Brent

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May 21, 2006
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772
Location
Olympia, WA
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PS I go to Bellevue Square alot and if I ever see someone OCing, I would run up to that person (hoping it was Sandy or Lonnie) and shake their hand

I think you have me confused with Lonnie. I carry at Bellevue Square Mall -- Lonnie carries in Federal Way.
 

Gray Peterson

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Lynnwood, Washington, USA
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Open carried again in Federal Way Winco, not a problem. In fact I had an backroom employee come up to me and ask me if my gun is real.

I told her yes it was, and then she asked me if I was a cop. I basically said no, just a regular joe blow citizen. She was quite relieved at my demeanor and she actually seemed quite cool and interested in it. Sometimes, a smiling face and a willingness to talk defuses any potential situations, and she was generally happy go lucky.

This happened around 7:30PM yesterday. It was even more crowded than my usually graveyard jaunts to the store. Great place to shop.
 

wqbang

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
63
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
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I look forward to the time when open carry in Washington is commonly accepted.

I won't be joining the ranks of OC'ers in town until then... call me nervous. I will continue to carry openly in national forests though.
 

Gray Peterson

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May 12, 2006
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Lynnwood, Washington, USA
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wqbang,

If you're in Federal Way, we should meet up. Federal Way has a training bulletin out stating the legality of open carry to it's officers. Don't be shy. :)
 

expvideo

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Messages
1,487
Location
Lynnwood, WA, ,
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Halloween! Took my 5 year old brother trick-or-treating, while OCing. No incident, in fact I walked right in front of a KCSO cruiser's headlights, holster-side to officer, with no confrontation.

Sadly, I couldn't afford a webly, but I DID customize a holster for my Sig P226, out of an old revolver holster. When I was done with it, it had better retention than my Kydex!

IMG00082.jpg
 

sandy

Regular Member
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
102
Location
, Washington, USA
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OC to Vote

I'm going out to vote in a little bit. Wouldn't it be nice if I could carry openly at the polls? You shouldn't even have to wonder about that one, right? I mean what sort of despotic government would prohibit its citizens from carrying arms while performing the most fundamental civic duty?

My polling place is at a school. I vaguely recalled that there was some sort of confusing statute prohibiting carry at schools with various exceptions. I have carried concealed while voting in past years, but I now realize even that was illegal.

RCW 9.41.280 says more clearly than I expected, that carry into a public school building has no exceptions that apply to me. I can carry in my car on school grounds for any legitimate business, and I can carry concealed while picking up and dropping off a student as long as I don't go inside, but I can never take my gun inside the building.

So I'm going to bring the gun as usual, but I'll leave it in the car (concealed from view in a locked vehicle) and take my empty holster in with me (to make an empty political statement that nobody will notice). The founders are rolling over in their graves.

If any of you have polling places that are not schools, please open carry.

--Sandy (WA)
 

sandy

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May 16, 2006
Messages
102
Location
, Washington, USA
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Alderwood Mall on Black Friday

I open carried today while shopping with the family at Alderwood Mall in Lynnwood. We were in the mall from around 1 to 7pm, and for the most part it was uneventful. We ate in the food court, and went into stores both large and small. I got some questions from sales people, but nothing problematic at any of the stores. Unfortunately, somebody called the police when the kids were playing at the big play area.

The place is surrounded by bench seating against high walls, so I was seated facing the kids with my back to the open mall. A plainclothes police officer (probably off duty) leaned over the wall, showed me his badge, and asked if he could speak with me. I handed off our infant and came out to speak with him. He was accompanied by a uniformed officer who took no interest in me. The plainclothes officer was very nice to me, and made an impassioned plea that I conceal it to make his day easier. He said that someone called because she was worried for the safety of her kids. He said that if enough people complain, it reaches the level of "alarming" the public, and therefore he can arrest me and take the gun away. So far I wasn't breaking the law, but he said that it might reach that level if I'm not careful.I know this is not true, and I thought about arguing with him. But he was so nice, and said several times that he really supports the RKBA, and is carrying his off duty piece himself, but that it's just easier if I would conceal it when in a crowded mall. I said that I had a jacket in the stroller, and he said OK and left. I went back into the play area with all the kids, got out my jacket and put it on. Then I stayed for another 20 minutes. I hope that whoever called on me saw that I was not arrested, and that I stayed amongst her kids with my gun hidden behind just a light jacket.

After we left the play area, I again took off the jacket (the mall was very warm), and we continued our shopping without another issue. By that point I convinced myself that if I was stopped again by that same officer, I would have to be more firm, and I would bring up the training bulletins sent to other police forces in King County. But fortunately I didn't have to. On our way out to the parking lot a few hours later, my wife thinks she spotted someone freaking out and calling on the cell phone while pointing to me frantically, but I'll never know what that was about. Why someone would be terrified of me, in nice casual clothes and pushing a stroller, is beyond my comprehension.

--Sandy (WA)


PS - Anyone watch House? The plainclothes officer looked like the officer hounding House, and reminded me of his personality as well: really nice and polite, until he really really isn't.
 

expvideo

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Lynnwood, WA, ,
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I'm glad it went well for you. I was at that mall, but I wasn't OCing. I didn't see you or I would have said hi and complimented the action. I've been too timid to open carry at alderwood. I guess since the Brinks guys are allowed to, they can't enforce any mall rules that say otherwise. I suppose if I open carried there more often it would only help to make our right more well known.
 

Gray Peterson

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Lynnwood, Washington, USA
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Adam,

Not too sure if that's a good idea at this point. I'm working with another department officer who's making contact with Seattle PD on my behalf.
 

sandy

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, Washington, USA
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adamwa wrote:
I may do an open carry day in Seattle Center Sunday. Anyone interested in coming too :)


Sunday I'll be back at Alderwood Mall having family pictures taken at JC Penney Portrait Studios. I'll be carrying.

--Sandy (WA)

PS - Lonnie is in the middle of some work in Seattle and has asked us not to OC until it is resolved. Barring a strong reason, I'd just as soon respect his request and wait. PM him for details.
 

jchen012

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Oct 4, 2006
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Bellevue, WA, ,
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Thanks for the effort sandy. I too was at Alderwood Mall at that time, but I was CCWing. I figured that it would not be a good idea to OC with so many people and I didn't want my gun to be bumping into people through the crowded hallways and also for fear that if someone did grab it, I wouldn't know who since there were so many people. But Sunday sounds like it would be ok to OC since there will be less people. What time are you going to JC Penny?
 

expvideo

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Lynnwood, WA, ,
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I'll be at alderwood at 5:30 to pick up my girlfriend and I can always show up early, if anyone is going to be there, give me a call 425-533-7979
 

Gray Peterson

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I had my first "negative" experience. I was at the Wendys in Federal Way (this is a corporate location, not a franchise), and I had open carried at the restaurant, as I had dozens of times being there (I have a thing for their frosties). I had an employee there see it, and I asked me if it was a real gun, I had stated "yes, it's legal in Washington to open carry", and then proceeded to order. She took my card and swiped it and then gave it back, and then went to the back. I then saw the manager and I was standing to the side, he then yelled back "What did he look like".

It was at this point that I realized that he was talking about me. I said "Sir, I believe that you're looking for me". He told me to conceal my firearm because he was concerned about causing csutomers panic in the store. I told him that no one in the store had complained or was panicking, and that the only person who said anything was one of their employees. He said it didn't matter. I did comply with his request.

It's very poor form to tell someone to do something AFTER you take a payment from them. They're on the hook for the food ordered now that it is paid for, and all it did was enrage me.

Even worse was when another customer piped up, not even involved in the conversation and said "It's unacceptable in modern society to openly carry a gun, you should be ashamed of yourself". This person rather enraged me, and rather than give him the finger after he said it, I said "Sir, with all due respect, open carry is legal in Washington State, I complied with the managers request, and I will take it up with district management later....." He started interrupting me and I basically stated the following: "However, you are being rude, you were not invited into the conversation, so I do not want you talking to me, and if you do not cease talking, I will contact the police and report you for harassment".

He shut up at that point.

Was it a bad thing to say that I would contact law enforcement for harassment? May not have been my best ambassadorial work on open carry. In fact, it was pretty terrible. However, thinking back, as open carriers we do not have any special exemption from not being victimized by others. If someone were to come up to me at a bus stop and tell me "You're a faggot and you're going to hell for being a faggot" when I'm wearing a t-shirt saying that I'm gay, and continuously did so even though even though I've told them "stop bothering me and don't talk to me", the police would ticket or arrest the person for harassment.

I was just unnerved, as it was never a problem before and when you get hit with something unexpected right out of left field.

The girl who told the manager then told me that there was a gang shooting outside of that store a few days ago, which is why the employees were on edge. I told her that "Well, last time I checked I'm not a criminal or gang banger, and I open carried plenty of times before without a problem". I did ask for contact information on the franchise, and they stated that they were corporate and to contact the corporate office in Dublin, Ohio if a complaint should be filed. I tried filing a complaint online but their online complaint form isn't working. I do intend to call them on Tuesday and get a real email address. I will post on the forum and on PNW Open Carry what that contact email is, along with a copy of what I sent them.
 
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