Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: A Place of Honor With All That is Good

  1. #1
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bristol, VA
    Posts
    1,735

    Post imported post

    From an article I wrote for the VCDL Defender newsletter:
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Over the last several issues, the Defender has been the forum for a heated debate between those who advocate open carry and those who consider it dangerous and irresponsible. In my opinion, the origin of the debate lies in a basic misunderstanding of the true benefits of open carry, and I plan on joining the debate in the finest tradition of politicians everywhere: I will share my opinion and then declare it gospel.

    "Right Answer ... Wrong Question"
    The argument thus far has largely revolved around the tactical aspects of open carry vs. concealed carry. If this were the actual argument, then those of us who are proponents of open carry would lose quite handily. However, this is not the actual argument. The reason that it has appeared to be so is that Mr.'s Mulvena and O'Connor both made passing remarks in their articles about tactical issues and opened the door to Mr. Kelly's well-written and thorough rebuttal.

    Now would be a good time for me to go on record as saying that there is very little to disagree with in Mr. Kelly's article. His level of training and dedication to concealed carry issues give him an enviable and unique insight and he has the ability to present what he knows concisely and convincingly. Having said that, the question he was answering was not the question we should be asking. He was answering the question "Is open carry more or less tactically defensible than concealed carry?" I will join with Mr. Kelly in answering that question by saying "less". Suffice it to say that if your primary concern is tactical superiority, then you should carry concealed.

    "The Right Question"
    The question that we, as VCDL members and pro-gun activists, should be asking is "What are the benefits to the gun-rights movement of my carrying openly?" Mr. Kelly stated the problem quite eloquently in his article; "I know bankers, attorneys, businessmen, reporters, and clergymen who consider a sidearm as much a part of their daily apparel as their wallet. But to non-gun-owners, it seems a somehow unwholesome practice, associated with criminals and paranoiacs. To them, a man who carries a gun for no immediate reason is strange. They regard such a person as they would one who talked to himself."

    The reason for this is readily apparent. We are bombarded, almost daily, by a variety of subtle and not-so-subtle antigun media messages. It is amazing how effective this bombardment is, even for those of us with deeply held pro-gun beliefs. It is a dangerous mistake to assume that societal influences do not make an impact. They do! Mr. Kelly is a prime example of the fact that even we can be influenced to treat firearms as something "somehow unwholesome."

    At the risk of sounding like a sociology professor, what we are dealing with is a general populace that has had their perceptions about firearms turned into prejudices by societal pressures. Most people are not anti-gun in the traditional sense of the word, but they can be counted upon to swallow whatever drivel is presented by the true anti-gun movement. Make no mistake about it; if we do nothing to counter these negative stereotypes about gun owners, then our rights will be slowly taken away. Open carry is a very easy way to begin to counter these stereotypes. To put it simply, open carry forces those you meet, be they friends, relatives or neighbors, to reconcile their preconceived notions and prejudices regarding firearms with the fact that you are exercising this right in a safe and responsible manner.

    Prejudice thrives on ignorance. By openly carrying, we are showing the public what gun owners are really like. More importantly, we are showing them who we are. I cannot tell you the number of times that I have heard people say that they do not know any gun owners. They do, of course, but they are not aware that they do. This allows them to buy into the idea that gun owners are different; and people fear and distrust that which is different. Seeing you or I openly carrying a firearm forces them to confront the object of their prejudice.

    "Conclusion"
    We are not just a collection of people who are interested solely in self-defense and personal protection tactics. We are also political activists! The anti's understand this and factor it into all of their public contact, but often we do not.

    You and I are the spokesmen for responsible gun ownership and use in our communities. Charleton Heston and Sarah Brady are, at best, distant figures to John and Jane Citizen, but you and I are their relatives, friends, neighbors and fellow travelers.

    Open carry is our chance to show our friends and neighbors that we are normal people. We have families, homes, children and bills just like they do. We have simply chosen to exercise our right of self-defense and I, for one, find this very wholesome.

  2. #2
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The 'Dena, Mаяуlaпd
    Posts
    2,147

    Post imported post

    Excellent!!
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern Fauquier Co, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,297

    Post imported post

    I remember this article. I may reprint this in the next issue of the Defender.

  4. #4
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bristol, VA
    Posts
    1,735

    Post imported post

    Feel free. I need to get off my butt and write a few new articles for you.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Mansfield, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    38

    Post imported post

    That says more for open carry then anything that I have read so far.

    BRAVO!!!!

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    43

    Post imported post

    I read this article before and thought............WOW. I think no futher articles on open carry need be written. All we have to do is point to this article and say "what he said".

    Is it permitted for us to save a copy of this article? I would like to be able to present it to friends when we get into the open vs concealed debate.

    I would of course, make sure that your by-line at the bottom is in tact so you receive proper credit for it.

  7. #7
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bristol, VA
    Posts
    1,735

    Post imported post

    Sure. Whatever you would like. I wrote the article to forward the cause of open carry and any way that it can be used to do that is fine with me.



  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern Fauquier Co, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,297

    Post imported post

    Look for this in the next Defender, hopefully in your mailbox in the next few weeks. Also there is a plug for this forum and the restaurant carry map.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Mesilla/Las Cruces, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    74

    Post imported post

    Another good article jpierce!

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    ShaunKranish from ICarry.org, ,
    Posts
    243

    Post imported post

    Did you publish this back in '05 by chance? During or before Sept '05?

    I spent quite some time trying to find the article that was once posted as an informational article on OCDO back in '05. I am fairly certain this is the article I was looking for. It was very inspirational to me at the time, and played a major role in developing my beliefs on the value of open carry, or more generally the open exercise of rights as a way to educate the public, reverse ignorance and prejudice, and counter propaganda from anti-rights outfits.

  11. #11
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bristol, VA
    Posts
    1,735

    Post imported post

    I did! Thanks for your kind words.



    SAK wrote:
    Did you publish this back in '05 by chance? During or before Sept '05?

    I spent quite some time trying to find the article that was once posted as an informational article on OCDO back in '05. I am fairly certain this is the article I was looking for. It was very inspirational to me at the time, and played a major role in developing my beliefs on the value of open carry, or more generally the open exercise of rights as a way to educate the public, reverse ignorance and prejudice, and counter propaganda from anti-rights outfits.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    1,415

    Post imported post

    Mr. Pierce,

    I want to chime in on the debate regarding tactical superiority and carry types or carry preferences.

    When dealing with the issue of whether or not one form of carry has a tactical edge over the other, I believe it is an absolute fallacy to state that CC has a distinct advantage over OC.

    In fact, I would place far more credence into the idea that each can have distinct tactical advantages. The hidden, covered nature of CC certainly gives the element of surprise, but I believe it could very well be an unpleasant one as well. Presentation is far slower than OC (especially with retention involved), and making quick, unsolicited movements while under duress, fumbling with clothing in an attempt to save your own life, is a good way to eat a bullet from a criminal who is probably hyper-attentive, agitated, and nervous anyways.

    A state that many criminals are not ready to put themselves in in the first place, if they witness armed patrons of any establishment, conducting their business as normal.

    To patently state that CC is "better" is a fallacy at best, in my opinion. Especially with consideration to the impact that either movement would like to portray, which is at least in part, the normalization of firearms as an appropriate means of self-defense in our country. This has been a reality since our nations inception, and has slowly been eroded, as you aptly point out in your article, as time has moved on, and specific party agendas have been pursued in this country.

    Indeed, if open carry was more normalized, the lasting affect would certainly be the realization by criminals that their career choice may have a low life expectancy.

    While concealed carry has always created the notion that somebody could "at any time or place" be armed, the reality to criminals is that patrons likely are not.

    I certainly would not state that CC has not had a positive impact on the reduction of crime rations in given demographics where CC has been authorized, especially in "Shall Issue" states. That would be completely unsubstantiated.

    I can however state, that OC is certainly a necessary step, or natural evolution, to affirming our rights, in a society that frankly hasn't been too keen on what its rights are. Not only that, but it has been repeatedly drummed out to society as a whole that firearms are "bad", which is truly sad, given the history of our nation, and the men and women who have laid their lives down to protect our freedoms.

    There is little argument anyone can make, as people carry openly 7 days a week, and none of the disastrous scenarios that anti-gun efforts state would occur, never, or very rarely happen.

    Concealed Carry does not have this kind of societal impact. The same "tactical advantage" that is espoused by those who are expressly supportive of CC, does not allow for high visibility. This means as a CC proponent moves throughout their daily lives, there is very little positive social impact that can be derived from the action.

    People do not say, "Look, there goes John, he is such a nice guy, and a concealed carrier.".

    That exact statement could absolutely be said truthfully for a vast number of open carriers on this site alone, however. All one would have to do is swap the *concealed* with *open*, and voila!

    In the end I think it should ultimately be up to the individual who decides to take on the responsibility to be responsible for themselves, to choose what carry method best suits them. To that end, I think it is also absolutely important to stick together in the basic affirmation that self-defense is the natural right of all living beings, and that we should stay away from "snobbery" in regards to which one we believe is "better".

    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1

    Post imported post

    Another new guy.......... I just recently found this wonderful site. It has been as if I were the only "nut" out hear in my
    area that thought O.C. was something a "normal" person would do. When asked by strangers and some friends why I carry, I have offered my personal conviction: " Any citizen than neglects to excersize a legal given right, risks losing that right ."
    I feel as if I have found a home among true brothers in liberty.

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,619

    Post imported post

    That OC or CC has the tactical advantage may well be the right answer to the wrong question.

    To carry a defensive tool at all is the tactical decision. How we think, observe and move are the constantly changing tactical adjustments.

    How one carries has less to do with tactics than necessity first and personal choice second. At times there is little choice in the matter - CC or nothing - and that call is frequently made by others, even dictated to us. Weather, employment and other non-controllable places/events are a factor.

    There are those of us that are able to make totally independent decisions with regard to how we present ourselves and subsequently how we carry. We are definitely in the minority though.

    Not addressing the issues of which is safer, faster, more acceptable, better politically or more comfortable - there is one common element that must take place if a bad encounter is to end on a happy note without a shot being fired .................. your gun must be seen.

    The deterrent reaction of the presence of a good citizen with an OCd gun can never be stated too strongly. Too engage in this psychological warfare while CCing, requires an active aggressive action.- you must make a decision and trust that your reasoning is correct/defensible.

    OC presents a passive non-threatening presence, with all of the other options still available. That is why I chose to OC + I get to talk to so many nice people.

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063

    Post imported post

    Key word: presence.

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Suwannee County, FL
    Posts
    5,069

    Post imported post

    I talk to myself..... For want of any intelligent company to have a conversation with, usually.


    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  17. #17
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Yuma, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    923

    Post imported post

    Concealed carry has tactical advantages. It is also true that open carry has a strategic advantage, that of deterrence. A great many criminals will not attack an open carrier because they know that they face an armed person.

    If concealed carry had overwhelming tactical advantages, police and the military would all carry concealed.

    You can get many of the advantages of both by carrying both openly and concealed.

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Suwannee County, FL
    Posts
    5,069

    Post imported post

    ccwinstructor wrote:
    Concealed carry has tactical advantages. It is also true that open carry has a strategic advantage, that of deterrence. A great many criminals will not attack an open carrier because they know that they face an armed person.

    If concealed carry had overwhelming tactical advantages, police and the military would all carry concealed.

    You can get many of the advantages of both by carrying both openly and concealed.
    And I could get the benefit of shoes by wearing them. Please explain what you mean to say...?

    I've experienced the disadvantage of CC first hand. I used to believe in the myth that it offered me some advantage. I'm still unable to actually articulate one, nor has anyone else. EVER.

    Please, enlighten me.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •