Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Carry through Ft. Belvoir?

  1. #1
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The 'Dena, Mаяуlaпd
    Posts
    2,147

    Post imported post

    I am hoping someone that knows the area can shed some light on this. I was driving north on Rt1, from Woodbridge to Alexandria. It came upon me that I may having been driving 'through' Ft. Belvoir. Does rt. 1 go through the base?

    So..... if that is the case, what's the deal if I have a firearm on me? I know a military installation doesn't allow this, generally. Is there a provision for this type of scenario when a major road goes through the base?





    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, VA, ,
    Posts
    689

    Post imported post

    Darn good question, sir. I'll be checking on this, for us, since I get down that way on occasion.

    DoubleR

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Powhatan, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    57

    Post imported post

    Ok, its been a long time but back in the 70's I was stationed at Belvoir as an MP. At that time US RT1 was considered "concurrent jurisdiction". Which meant that we could enforce VA state laws on Rt 1 along with state and local authorities. any laws that were military or federal in nature was not enforcible until you exited the road onto the base property. I think your okay while on rt 1 as long as you don't exit the road onto the base. there are a number of bases in VA that are like that. Ft lee, near Petersburg is one with Rt 36 running through the post so to speak.

    If anyone knows different I would be interested to know, as I drive on 36 occasionally.



    Stay Alert/Stay Alive

  4. #4
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bristol, VA
    Posts
    1,735

    Post imported post

    Rchjr is right. As long as you stay on Rt 1 and do not attempt to enter the base "proper", you are in VA jurisdiction and may carry. I commuted that way every day for about 7 years in the 90's

    However, do NOT attempt to take any of the "shortcuts" through the base as they WILL subject you to enforcement.

  5. #5
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The 'Dena, Mаяуlaпd
    Posts
    2,147

    Post imported post

    Thanks guys. Common sense told me that it is probably OK but common sense doesn't always apply to firearm regulation:X.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Houston, Texas, USA
    Posts
    180

    Post imported post

    VAopencarry wrote:
    Thanks guys. Common sense told me that it is probably OK but common sense doesn't always apply to firearm regulation
    Especially not when the federal government is involved.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Chesterfield, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    32

    Post imported post

    jpierce wrote:
    Rchjr is right. As long as you stay on Rt 1 and do not attempt to enter the base "proper", you are in VA jurisdiction and may carry. I commuted that way every day for about 7 years in the 90's

    However, do NOT attempt to take any of the "shortcuts" through the base as they WILL subject you to enforcement.
    While I know that this is the VA forum. Same holds for Rt 172 in North Carolina going through Camp LeJeune. No problems unless you stop in a "militarized" portion of the base. I've driven through with as many as four guns visible in my vehicle (three in the rear window and one in my shoulder holster).

    Be on guard though, some portions of Rt 172 are flanked by artillery ranges.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Northern VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    65

    Post imported post

    I wish that were the case with GW parkway. Does the state maintain GW parkway?

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682

    Post imported post

    blt38 wrote:
    I wish that were the case with GW parkway. Does the state maintain GW parkway?
    As has been noted in the thread about the GW Parkway, it is National Park land, and even worse there is a small stretch that is in DC.

    You need to be aware of where you are at all times. Much like the ABC Board giving Wegman's grocery store a restaurant license which covers the entire property. I've only been to Wegman's once and did not see the ABC license stuff at the entrance, but I was not looking for it. The GW Parkway is pretty much (but not completely)posted as NPS land via the brown signs.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Northern VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    65

    Post imported post

    I was more musing about the desire to carry rather than really thinking I could, but thank you for the information. As far as the piece of GWP that is in DC, I had to mapquest it. surprise surprise, that piece of VA was not ceded back to VA

  11. #11
    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    856

    Post imported post

    Nope, that piece wasn't a part of Virginia, it was a part of Maryland, since Maryland extends to the low water line of the Potomac on the Virginia side. In other words, all of the Potomac is Maryland or DC, as appropriate, and since the island is in the river, it's in DC.

  12. #12
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,845

    Post imported post

    Close, but not exactly... Maryland owns the Potomac River up to the low tide line on the Virginia shore EXCEPT where there are creeks or rivers that enter the Potomac. At that point, the Maryland line extends in a line from headland to headland for the mouth of that body of water. On the Virginia shore, I recall several creeks and rivers where this applies. Dogue Creek (Ft. Belvoir), Occoquan (sp?) River, Upper and Lower Machodoc Creeks, Colonial Beach (They used to have a casino on a pier there that was in "Maryland" and Maryland LE had to be called for problems there...).

    I think you get the picture. Maryland doesn't own ALL the water in the Potomac, but most of it...


    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  13. #13
    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    856

    Post imported post

    Leave it to a Coastie... :P

    Pertinent to the circumstances under discussion, I stand by my position!

  14. #14
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,845

    Post imported post

    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sterling, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post

    I could be missing something, is'nt the boundry the ordinary HIGH WATER MARK? This could put you in MD or DC while still standing on dry land.



    .

    The National Organization for Rivers (NORS)
    Membership Offices: 212 West Cheyenne Mountain
    Colorado Springs, CO 80906
    (719) 579-8759. Fax (719) 576-6238.
    nors@rmi.net


    The states own these rivers up to the "ordinary high water mark." This is the mark that people can actually see on the ground, where the high water has left debris, sand, and gravel during its ordinary annual cycle. (Not during unusual flooding.) It is not a theoretical line requiring engineering calculations. Where the river banks are fairly flat, this mark can be quite a distance from the edge of the water during medium water flows. There is often plenty of room for standing, fishing, camping, and other visits.



    American Whitewater

    Maryland Navigability Report

    Summary[/i] [/i]

    Only streams that are tidal and capable of being boated, including small rowboats and possibly kayaks, are defined as navigable and open to the public. What rights, if any, a boater has on streams that are not influenced by the tide has not been conclusively determined.

    State Test of Navigability[/i] [/i]

    Maryland adheres to the ancient common law rule that navigable streams are those streams subject to the ebb and flow of the tide.1) A second test, whether the stream is navigable-in-fact by small boats such as rowboats, might also be employed by a court as an additional restriction on determining whether a tidal stream is navigable.2) The state owns nearly all the navigable waters and the bottoms of navigable streams in the state (with the exception of certain colonial land grants), and the public has the right to use the shore of navigable streams up to the ordinary high water mark.3) The navigable waters of Maryland comprise 2,429 square miles or 20% of the State’s total surface area, and the shoreline runs for 3,190 miles.4)

    Extent of Public Rights in Navigable and Non-Navigable Rivers[/i] [/i]

    The public has the right to recreate in waters subject to the ebb and flow of the tide. This right extends to the ordinary high water mark. Of course, under the federal navigational servitude,5) the public has the right of navigation in waters navigable in fact that are not subject to the tide. What other rights the public has in waters not subject to the tide, if any, has not yet been determined. The state maintains a recreational system of water trails for kayaking and canoeing and state parks with navigable rivers that includes nontidal waters.6) Regulations of the Maryland Department of Natural Resources cover safety and commercial whitewater kayaking on certain designated rivers, including the Youghiogheny Wild River.7)

    Miscellaneous[/i] [/i]

    Trespassing from water vessels onto property that is conspicuously posted against trespassers is a misdemeanor subject to a fine of up to $500 and 3 months in prison.8)


    1) Department of Natural Resources v. Mayor and Council of Ocean City, 332 A.2d 630, 634 (Md. 1975). It should be noted, however, that the author found no cases that held that the public has no rights in streams which are not influenced by the tide, and the recreational system of navigable water trails in the state includes nontidal waters. Thus, there still remains the possibility of the state adopting some type of test that would determine whether the public has a right to recreational use of nontidal streams.
    2) Wagner v. City of Baltimore, 124 A.2d 815, 820 (Md. 1956).
    3) Harbor Island Marina, Inc. v. Board of County Commissioners of Calvert County, 407 A.2d 738, 744 (1979); Board of Public Works v. Larmar Corp., 277 A.2d 427, 437 (Md. 1971).
    4) Md. Dep’t of Gen’l Services, Maryland Manual 1979-80 1 (1979).
    5) See generally, Kaiser Aetna et al. v. United States, 444 U.S. 164, 175 (1979), United States v. Chicago, M., St. P. & P.R.R., 312 U.S. 592 (1941
    6) http://www.dnr.state.md.us/outdoors/boating.html.
    7) COMAR 08.18.01, 08.15.04.
    8) Md. Criminal Law Code Ann. §§ 6-402, 6-403 (2006).

    Ray

  16. #16
    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    856

    Post imported post

    The 1877 Black-Jenkins Award determined that Virginia extends to the low-water mark of the Potomac.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sterling, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post

    I was missing somthing. I will be fishing closer the water from now on. Thank you

    Ray

  18. #18
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Accomac, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,213

    Post imported post

    meo wrote:
    I was missing somthing. I will be fishing closer the water from now on. Thank you

    Ray
    Although the Potomac river in considered Maryland Water the Potomac River Fisheries Commission (PRFC) regulates the fisheries of the main stem of the tidal Potomac River from the Maryland/Washington D.C. boundary line (near the Woodrow Wilson Bridge), to the mouth of the river at Point Lookout, MD.. Fishing licenses issued by Maryland, Virginia and the PRFC are valid See: http://www.prfc.state.va.us/for information
    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")
    Benjamin Franklin said, "A government that does not trust it's citizens with guns is a government that should not be trusted."



  19. #19
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Post imported post

    rchjr wrote:
    Ft Lee, near Petersburg is one with Rt 36 running through the post so to speak.

    If anyone knows different I would be interested to know, as I drive on 36 occasionally.
    I was unaware of any road going through Ft Lee without passing through a gate, but darned if it doesn't.

    Rte 40 through Fort Picket (Blackstone) is the same, except they fire ordnance over the road there sometimes.:shock:
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •