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Thread: right to bear

  1. #1
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    With the Emerson ruling standing, what are some conclusions regarding someone making a test case of open carry?

    alot of cases have come before the fifth after emerson and mostly concerning felon in posession (which has gone badly for said felon), so what does someone think about a non-felon in posession, walking down the street open carrying to make the test case?

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    My guess is a charge and a conviction.

    The Texas constitution says:
    Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.
    The legislature has chosen to regulate the bearing of arms. I see it as well within their constitutional authority.

  3. #3
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    so you don't think that with the emerson ruling (Although, as we have held, the Second Amendment does protect individual rights, that does not mean that those rights may never be made subject to any limited, narrowly tailored specific
    exceptions or restrictions for particular cases that are reasonable and not inconsistent with the right of Americans generally to individually keep and bear their private arms as historically understood in this country.) that 'narrowly tailored' would actually mean narrowly tailored?

    eh, maybe i'm just being too optimistic

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    The fact that Texans are forbidden by law from open carry is not a major issue to me. If it is a major issue to Texans, they have a means by which their voice can be heard. It is called the ballot box.

    I am in favor of more liberty, but I also recognize that there has to be some arbitrary line in the sand where it stops. No matter where that line is drawn, it is arbitrary.

    I don't believe that blanket bans on carry by most citizens such as states as my own haveare constitutional, nor doI think may-issue systems are constitutional.

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    DK, check out Longwatch's opinion on covered holsters in the Open Carry Question section.He seems to address this very question, and although I tend to politely differ,could it be that such carry is what it takes to set the ball rolling in Texas?

    The gun itself is not visible, but the RIG certainly is!Open or concealed carry? You tell me! I believe that one might argue both ways! It should provide Texas LEOs with a nice little puzzle!

    What think you, Sir?

    TrueBrit.

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    I think that if I were a Texan in favor of OC, I would solicit the opinion of my local prosecutor as to what his opinion was first.

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    At this time, texas does not allow open carry. I guess that even though the lubys massacre woke some people up, it still wouldn't do to scare the sheeple with people openly carrying evil black guns.

    As to the holster issue, it wouldn't fly in texas. part of the statute goes so far as to even make 'printing' illegal, so even a completely concealed handgun in the holster would still be seen as a gun.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    What do you think about this rig for a 'Texas loophole'? At least until there is true open carry in Texas. I think it is still CCW, but other gun owners might recognize the bearer as an armed man.

    http://thewilderness.com/catalog/pro...products_id/18



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    What the statute says is:

    A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
    I guess by that they meant any act where you intentionally fail to conceal the fact that you are carrying ahandgun is an offense. Carrying it in a holster where the handgun itself is hidden from view would not conceal the fact that you are carrying a handgun.

    OTOH, the fanny packdoes not obviously contain a handgun.

    It appears to me that a defense against a charge that one failed to conceal the handgun would ultimately depend on what the law defines concealed to mean.

    I am not sure that not being able to see the handgun itself necessarily means the handgun is concealed.

    But, IANAL.

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    I think the fanny pack would pass muster, until police actually saw that you used it to house a weapon. Then you'd get two reactions, some would think 'great idea', others might not. I think it would work though because it's not in the shape of a holster and wouldn't 'alarm' the sheeple.

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    I would be willing to bet a fair number of people in Texas carry this way. I can't imagine any LEO in TX caring.

    The intent of the law was to conceal whether or not one is carrying a handgun.

    A case like this is ambiguous enough that there is no way to tell with any certainty if a handgun is contained within it.

    There are probably people carrying them in purses, briefcases and other non-traditional ways as well.



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    I would like to make a suggestion.

    The term "sheeple" has traditionally been used by far right wing common law militia nut case type groups to refer to people who do not agree with their strange view of the legal system and the constitution.

    I think it would be best if we refrain from using it. It makes us sound as if we are part of that fringe element. They only number in the hundreds or thousands, but they get a lot of attention. No reason we should make it sound like we are part of their warped view of reality.

    We are the mainstream, and mainstream people are polite and do not call other peoplenames.

    JMHO.

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    I do not know the ins and outs of Texas law, but it would seem to me that the fanny is CC. In Virginia a rig like that would certainly be considered CC because the true nature the contents is not discernible.

    In addition, IMHO it wouldn't be worth using a holster of that kind to make a statement about OC. The only people who would likely recognize it as a gun would probably alreadybe fellow packers. Hence, that is why I view it as CC.

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Indeed in VA it would be CC, might get one hung up in a restaurant or in Ohio in car.

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    ilbob wrote:
    I would like to make a suggestion.

    The term "sheeple" has traditionally been used by far right wing common law militia nut case type groups to refer to people who do not agree with their strange view of the legal system and the constitution.

    I think it would be best if we refrain from using it. It makes us sound as if we are part of that fringe element. They only number in the hundreds or thousands, but they get a lot of attention. No reason we should make it sound like we are part of their warped view of reality.

    We are the mainstream, and mainstream people are polite and do not call other peoplenames.

    JMHO.
    Ilbob makes a valid point here, I believe.Much as I hate to comment on other folks speech, grammar, idioms, terminology etc., we do not need to give the impression that we are in anyway associated with the wackos mentioned above.I, like bob, merely offer this as a suggestion for consideration.TrueBrit.

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    There is no reference in Texas Law to "printing" of a handgun. The below is the only reference that describes what a concealed handgun is.

    Texas Government Code, Section H
    §411.171. Definitions.


    (3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of
    which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a
    reasonable person.


    I often carry IWB under a untucked shirtwhich "a reasonble person" would observe only a lump on my waist band. It could be my cell phone, my PDA or my 9mm.



    s&w6946


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    s&w6946 wrote:
    There is no reference in Texas Law to "printing" of a handgun. The below is the only reference that describes what a concealed handgun is.

    Texas Government Code, Section H
    §411.171. Definitions.


    (3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of
    which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a
    reasonable person.


    I often carry IWB under a untucked shirtwhich "a reasonble person" would observe only a lump on my waist band. It could be my cell phone, my PDA or my 9mm.



    s&w6946
    That is actually a pretty reasonable definition. It certainly seems to rule out any kind of traditional holster.

  18. #18
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    I don't live in TX but have carried quite a bit there using this setup. No problems at all.



    Attached Images Attached Images

  19. #19
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    I would like to make a suggestion.

    The term "sheeple" has traditionally been used by far right wing common law militia nut case type groups to refer to people who do not agree with their strange view of the legal system and the constitution.

    I think it would be best if we refrain from using it. It makes us sound as if we are part of that fringe element. They only number in the hundreds or thousands, but they get a lot of attention. No reason we should make it sound like we are part of their warped view of reality.

    We are the mainstream, and mainstream people are polite and do not call other peoplenames.

    JMHO.
    Ilbob makes a valid point here, I believe.Much as I hate to comment on other folks speech, grammar, idioms, terminology etc., we do not need to give the impression that we are in anyway associated with the wackos mentioned above.I, like bob, merely offer this as a suggestion for consideration.TrueBrit.

    I share the same opinion. The respectful attitudes of the members is one of the things that makes this forum attractive and enjoyable for me!

  20. #20
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    I went to NM over this past holiday weekend and I open carried for the first time in Las Vegas NM. I was very uncomfortable at first and my brother-in-law told me that I was favoring my strong side very much and I looked kind silly. I had to make an effort to walk straight up, chest out, with a big smile. The list of places I went was semi-long, Big-O-Tires, Enchantment-Ford, LM, Jeep, Chrysler, Dodge, Wal-Mart (yes Wally World), laundromat, Goodyear. Wal-Mart was kinda interesting the manager while making rounds was realnice to my wife and I and at the Big-O-Tires the place went quiet when my BIL and I went in but quickly went back to business as usual with a friendly hello. I thought it was unusual that the Wally Worlddid not sell beer, wine or liquor:?. First time was great and even had a local LEO ask about my choice of firearm. Real cool guy and I wish I had his name I would post itas last name. Maybe next time. Oh yea, after one day it was like it was not even there. My wife said I was a chicken looking for a fight, but at the end of the stay she was carrying my 3" stainless XD on her hip, to the dismay of her mother.

    Chuck XD Fan

  21. #21
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    In the CCW laws it states:

    Concealed Handgun:

    "...means a hangun, the presence of which is not openly discernable to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person."

    I think the black pouch shown above would be just fine.

    Cheers,

    Jason

  22. #22
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    I don't see a thing wrong with this (longwatch's) option in Texas. It's not much different than a fanny pack and the fanny pack is a very common method of CC in Texas. My wife and I both just moved to AZ from Texas where we have CC for years. My wife always (and still does) carry a CC pursespecially made for the purpose. But when she doesn't want to mess with the purse she carries a CC fanny pack. It is specifically designed for CC and has rapid access and a secure holster inside. We came from the Texas Gulf Coast where in the summer its too hot and humid to wear a lot of clothes. Its pretty hard to CC with shorts or swim trunks, sandals and a light T-shirt. The fanny pack is perfect. You can stick other stuff in it too - keys, cigs, an extra mag. etc. If anyone is interested I can post a pic.

    Now in Arizona - its not a problem any longer for men or women.Open carry is the way to go.

    Arizona-Texan

  23. #23
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    ilbob wrote:
    What the statute says is:
    A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

    I guess by that they meant any act where you intentionally fail to conceal the fact that you are carrying ahandgun is an offense. Carrying it in a holster where the handgun itself is hidden from view would not conceal the fact that you are carrying a handgun.

    OTOH, the fanny packdoes not obviously contain a handgun.

    It appears to me that a defense against a charge that one failed to conceal the handgun would ultimately depend on what the law defines concealed to mean.

    I am not sure that not being able to see the handgun itself necessarily means the handgun is concealed.

    But, IANAL.
    What about something like a pagerpal? Do any of you Texans have any experience carrying in one of these? Do LEOs consider that concealed?

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