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Senator Allen Introduces Universal Reciprocity Bill

John Pierce

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Story From The Times Dispatch

[line]People with permits from one state to carry a concealed firearm would generally be able to exercise that right elsewhere under a bill introduced quietly by Sen. George Allen.

"The bill would simply require states to recognize each other's concealed-carry permits and licenses, just as they recognize drivers' licenses," Allen, R-Va., said in a statement in the Congressional Record when he introduced the bill May 26.

In his statement introducing the bill, Allen said it was a companion to one introduced in the House by Reps. Cliff Stearns, R-Fla., and Rick Boucher, D-9th. "The right-to-carry movement has enjoyed great success throughout our nation," Allen said. In Virginia, he said, the murder rate has plunged 40 percent since a right-to-carry law that he signed as governor took effect in 1995.

There were 8.7 murders per 100,000 Virginia residents in 1994 and 5.2 murders per 100,000 in 2005, according to data from FBI Uniform Crime Reports, Allen's office said Friday.

The 1995 law was written to make it easier for Virginians to carry concealed weapons. Advocates for gun rights sought it to revoke judges' discretion in awarding the permits.

Allen said May 26 his bill had 12 co-sponsors, including Sen. Ben Nelson, D-Neb. The other 11 are Republicans.

Republican Reps. Jo Ann Davis of the 1st District, J. Randy Forbes of the 4th and Virgil H. Goode Jr. of the 5th are among 69 co-sponsors of the House bill.
[line]A few comments ...

1) Thank you Senator Allen and Congressman Boucher. Republican or Democrat, great Virginians all!!!!

2) George Allen in 2008!!!

3) DC, Chicago & NY City will have a freaking cow :cool::cool::cool:
 

ilbob

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I wonder about this. While I am in favor of CC for all law abiding citizens, I think the power to license carriers of firearms should be exercised at the state and not the federal level.

A better bill would be for congress to use wording similar to the voting rights act to insist that all citizens are allowed to exercise their rights to keep and bear arms as well as to vote.
 

VAopencarry

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I am not really sure how I feel about this. Not sure I like the idea of the federal government forcing states to do this. Frankly I do not understand why there isn't already more reciprocity but that's another topic I guess.

Of course on a personal level, it would be great!! for me and other permit holders.

Was it federal legislation that made states have reciprocity with driver's licenses?

Could there be a backlash from 'may issue' states? Could these states not like the reciprocity law and stop issueing CCP's altogether. Then there would be no reciprocity because 'they' do not issue permits.
 

DoubleR

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I kind of have to agree on the issue of "States Rights". I"m not sure that I want this mandated at the federal lever, either. That said, he is my Senator and I support him. He is a friend of RKBA.
 

TEX1N

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I am going to have to disagree with those supporters of "states rights" on this one. Let me just state that I do believe that the national government has trampled the powers granted to the states through the constitution and intended by our founding fathers.

However, the founding fathers felt that the right to keep and bear arms is a necessary right to allow the people the means of defense against a tyrannical government and against others who mean them harm. Therefore they included it within the federal constitution (in the bill of rights) granting the "right of the people," NOT the "right of the state" to keep and bear arms. Because of this I have absolutely no problem with the federal government passing a law that forces ever state to recognize every other states CC permits and our natural (and constitutional) rights.

ilbob, I have not read the senate version of the bill but I have read the house version. And in it the federal gov't would not be granting any permits, they would just be forcing each state to recognize the other states permits. Exactly like drivers licenses work, the states issue them and the other states are required to recognize them.

That being said, I still have a problem with the whole permit thing. How does that fall under "shall not be infringed?" But I do believe that expanding the shall-issue states isa must in making a step towards true recognition of the 2nd amendment.

-TEX1N
 

DKSuddeth

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lets name the states that will file a lawsuit against this if it passes.

Illinois, New Jersey, New York, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, California, D.C., and Maryland.

If this actually does make it in to law, I can actually look forward to goingback and visit my family in Illinois and still be able to carry.
 

TrueBrit

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Might there be a chance that states like IL,NJ ,NY etc will just add to the "off limits"list of locations that forbid lawful carry, making carry permits almost worthless?

I hate to sound pessimistic, this SOUNDS like a good Bill, but perhaps "the devil is in the details".

Having said that, such a Bill is surely a logical step in the right direction!

TrueBrit.
 

DoubleR

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TEX1N - Thaks for your input. My concern, as always, is "what strings" are attached. I have not read the bill, yet. I shall do so shortly, though. Thanks again. I do support Sen. Allen. There are some other political issues coming up in Virginia that I will be posting over the next couple of days. In regards to Sen. Allen, John "PBR" Kerry has endorsed, James Webb -a former Secretary ofthe Navyto run against Sen. Allen. We have to keep up with politics, whether we like it or not.

DoubleR
"You Can't Legislate Human Behavior"
 

longwatch

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Well they could make places off limits but then the elites wouldn't be able to carry either. On the other hand Wisconson and Illinois could do just that since they have no permit system, however they would have to pass a bill and I think there is a good chance that it could get away from the antis.
On the local politics front, at this point I will crawl through broken glass for if he really pushes this bill. He is also stealing Webbs thunder as a CHP holder. This is good red meat for the troops, and Allen has thrown in with us. I will throw in with him.
 

VAopencarry

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I am really scratching my head with James Webb entering the political arena, as Democrat at that.

He has a stellar record in Vietnam as a platoon and company commander, Navy Cross, Silver Star and Bronze Star and a couple of Purple Hearts. Reportedly(National Review) once refused to shake John Kerry's hand!!. Not sure how he decided the Dems had it all figured out.

He was SecNav when I was in the Corps. I have always had a lot of respect for him, he is man of impeccable character.
 

longwatch

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Looks like it would allow anyone with a permit to carry within the regs (off limits areas, etc)of the state if the state issues permits. If the state doesn't issue at all then the federal schedule of off limits areas kicks in.
 

ilbob

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In Illinois there are no list of off limits places because all places are off limits. My guess is WI is that way as well, since there is no permit there either.

There are other issues with this bill. It only covers concealed carry. What the heck do you do with your firearm in for instance, a place like NYC where you could carry it concealed, but if you took it off to take a shower you would be subject to a felony charge?
 

ilbob

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VAopencarry wrote:
I am really scratching my head with James Webb entering the political arena, as Democrat at that.

He has a stellar record in Vietnam as a platoon and company commander, Navy Cross, Silver Star and Bronze Star and a couple of Purple Hearts. Reportedly(National Review) once refused to shake John Kerry's hand!!. Not sure how he decided the Dems had it all figured out.

He was SecNav when I was in the Corps. I have always had a lot of respect for him, he is man of impeccable character.

Whats wrong with decent people being in the democratic party? They need some decent people. Way too many Kennedys, Kerrys, and Clintons right now, and not enough decent, honorable candidates on the national level.

At a local level, the democratic party is not so bad in many areas of the country. Nothing wrong with fixing things from the inside.
 

VAopencarry

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He was a Republican that served a couple positions in the Reagan administartion. Just recently went to the Democratic party, I am curious as too why.
 

VApatriot

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Overall, I completely agree that there should be nation wide recognition of CC and I am glad that Senator Allen is concerned about it as well, but what kind of negative impact could this have? Has anyone thought how this might affect VCDL's efforts to make Virginia a Vermont/Alaska style state? If we have no permits in our state, would therebe a way so that we would berecognized as legally CCing in other states?
 

ilbob

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No reason that VA could not make a drivers license or state ID card also a CC license.

If you are ineligible to CC, you would get a notation on your DL to that effect. Persons whose personal or religious convictions oppose CC could opt to add this notation to their DL/ID.

:)
 
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