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Thread: Driving through Illinois

  1. #1
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    Driving through Illinois

    Later this year I will be driving from our home near Memphis Tennessee to a family reunion in Greencastle Indiana. My route will take me from the free sector of America through the Peoples Republic of Illinois and back into America in Indiana.

    My question is this, my wife and I will be carrying our guns with us though obviously not on us when we are going through Illinois. What is the correct way to transport the guns through Illinois? Or, can anyone point me in the direction of a site that explains this?

    Our plan is to gas up just before crossing into Communist territory and driving 3 miles an hour under the speed limit all the way across the state without stopping and then to stop and re-arm ourselves after leaving communist territory.

    Thanks

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    The UUW act gives you this information.

    IANAL but I am willing to summarize it in two words.

    Unloaded and encased.

    I would add that it is best if you keep the cases away from your person and out of sight, and stay away from the Chicago area.

    Please do not try any funny business with unloaded and encased with the case strapped to your belt, or using a purse as a case. While this is clearly legal, and there is case law supporting its legality, you are still likely to get arrested, especially by the state police. They seem to delight in busting people for innocent violations of gun laws, or what they think are violations.

    Please be aware that construction zone speeding is now a huge fine to support the governors ravenous appetite for revenue. It is largely going to be enforced by camera.



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    PT, personally I would do everything in my power to avoid driving in Illinois if you're carrying OR transporting.

    To transport in Illinois, the weapon must be unloaded and enclosed somewhere out of reach like the trunk.

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    PT, I have to suggest thatDK probably has the answer here,as I would avoid this bastion of communism like the plague!

    You obviously know your own route best, but , having glanced at the OCDO map, could you not travel more or less due north, passing through the FREE COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY,the land of open carry, glovebox carry (loaded), carry anything you like, all permits honoured!

    This may not fit with your plans, but what price peace of mind and personal safety?

    Please forgive me if I mis-speak here,but maybe give it some thought?

    Respectfully,

    TrueBrit.

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    This question caused me to add a feature to the board that I have been thinking about for a while now. I added a forum section entitled The Law Library where I plan to put entries on some of the most commonly asked questions such as this.

    The first entry has been posted and is entitled The Interstate Transportation of Firearms.

    Users may not post in this section but any suggested changes to any of the entries that are placed there can be emailed to me. Also, I am open to suggestions for other topics to place there.

    Topics that I am already planning to add:

    - Flying With a Firearm

    - HR 218 Carry

    Thanks!


    John

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    You can go to the Illinois State Police website and get information on transporting firearms thru Illinois its isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm. The frequently asked questions has information on transporting. Basically unloaded, completely encased and not immediately accessible or broken down in a non-functioning state. Beware the site says that ammunition may be in the case with the firearm, however a teacher at one of the ISP training sites until just recently taught that it had could not be in the case. Illinois state law doesn't require that and its now even mentioned on the ISP website. Also beware that some home rule communities have their own firearms ordinances, you can get to them though the ISP website if they posted them 10 out of 34 didn't. I'd avoid those cities like the plague.

    The suggestion to go through Kentucky is a good one as is avoiding Chicago or any city north of I80 that has firearm ordinances. As truebrit said Kentucky is the land of open carry, glove box (not console) carry with no permit required and they honor every other states CC permit. I conceal carry whenever I go to Kentucky.


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    Keep your firearms encased and unloaded, although I cannot find anything that says the magazines need to be unloaded, you may want to do that as well, so if you are indeed stopped, there is minimal ground for the police to give you crap about.

    Just my advice -- I carry from Indiana where I live into Illinois a lot to go to the range, but I have never been stopped, this is just how I do things, I also keep them in the trunk.

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    I don't know about IL, but MD considers the magazine a part of the gun. Doesn't matter if the magazine is out of the gun or not, a loaded magazine IS A LOADED GUN the way MD sees things.

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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    I don't know about IL, but MD considers the magazine a part of the gun. Doesn't matter if the magazine is out of the gun or not, a loaded magazine IS A LOADED GUN the way MD sees things.
    I think CA has a similar law.

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    To eliminate the confusion about transportation in Illinois I think it's best to post the law as follows:

    (720 ILCS 5/24‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24‑1)
    (Text of Section from P.A. 94‑72)
    Sec. 24‑1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.
    (a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:



    (4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:

    (i) are broken down in a non‑functioning state; or


    (ii) are not immediately accessible; or
    (iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card;

    The exception (i) or (ii) are the only legal ways to transport without a FOID card. Illinois does not issue them to non-residents. So, this would apply to all non-residents.

    As to if exception (iii) allows a loaded magazine in the case here is some information from the Illinois State Police website FAQ:


    Isit legal to have ammunition in the case with the firearm?

    Yes, so long as the firearm is unloaded and properly enclosed in a case.




    Case law has supported that a loaded magazine outside the gun is ammunition. Not a part of the firearm that would make it loaded.



    As to what is a proper case:

    What constitutes a legal "case" for transporting a firearm?

    The Criminal Code refers to "a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container." However, the Wildlife Code is more specific, defining case as "a container specifically designed for the purpose of housing a gun or bow and arrow device which completely encloses such gun or bow and arrow device by being zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened with no portion of the gun or bow and arrow device exposed."




    However local law can be stricter, and some communities have banned handguns completely.While passing through thesecommunitiesthe federal guidelines for interstate transportation are the only defense against prosecution. The ISP websitehas a database of local firearms laws, but unfortunately it doesn't have county codes listed.

    http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearms.cfm

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    I don't know about IL, but MD considers the magazine a part of the gun. Doesn't matter if the magazine is out of the gun or not, a loaded magazine IS A LOADED GUN the way MD sees things.
    Illinois used to have that rule but it was not written in statute, it was conjured up by judicial fiat! Luckily under current statutes the loaded magazine = loaded gun is no longer enforceable.

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    I get the "pleasure" of traveling to IL every year to see my wife's family. Before we hit IL, I unload, and lock my guns in the safe, and the ammo in a hard gun carrying case. I then move them to the back under everything.

    This way, they are unaccessible - which sucks because the worst part of the trip (East St Louis) is in IL and that is where I need them the most.

    Also, the only way a LEO can open the cases is if they impound the car - unless you open the locked safe/locked cases for them. They will ask, but you do not have to comply, even after arrested - they can only search the "lungable" space around and cannot open anything without permission.

    Good luck. I hate it out there for more reason than the gun laws... The varmit laws for one, what you can do to protect your crops, the FOID card, well, you get the idea.

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    Going through Kentucky would extend a 430mi (+-) trip by another 100 miles.

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    Going through Illinois with a illegally transported firearm would extend the trip by about ten years. (via prison)

    I'd stick with Kentucky. Simply because you get to maintain a sense of self defense. Why reward The People's Republic of Illinois with your tax dollars spent there on gas, snacks, etc.?

    As a matter of fact, it would be cool to make a little documentary on why you are going the long way, and then send it to everyone. Including members of The People's Republic of Illinois' Legislature.

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    Superlite27, That's an idea people boycotting Illinois because of their gun laws. Down here in Southern Illinois we have the World Shooting Complex where they hold the Amatuer Trapshooting Competition something like 50,000 to 100,000 people attend. I've said that if say 10,000 people said they wouldn't attend because of Illinois gun laws on firearms transport and lack of CCW provisions, they would change the laws. They might start out with a 10 day out-of-state CCW permit for visitors, or a Randolph county (home of complex) non-resident CCW permit. They already made some changes in firearm purchases by out-of-state buyers at "sanctioned shooting events" , was the term used I believe. The state didn't want to lose sales tax money on the sale of expensive shotguns sold by vendors at the event.

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    PT-111- A little late on the post, as you've likely made your trip by now...

    We live in Indiana and travel to the Upper West U.S. frequently. There is no easy way for us to get around Illiniosistan, so we suck it up and go through. If I could avoid it without adding a day or two to travel I would. (I am reconsidering that policy as each time thru wears me a little thinner.)

    I strongly suggest you take the extra hour or so and use the interstate system through TN/KY/IN. Looks like a simple shot across I-40 to Nashville, jump on I-65 to Indy and a short backtrack on I-70 to get to Greencastle. All very friendly territory and the speed limits are at least 70mph, vs 65mph in Illinoisistan, 55mph if you have a trailer or a vehicle with a GVW over 8000# IIRC. Another archain law.

    We always have our defense gear stowed. I keep a multitool and one sidearm 'handy', but Illinoisistan legal. I always fuel up before we hit the border and we DO NOT STOP until we are IN Iowa. I DO NOT patronize any Illinoisistan businesses as I refuse to give the gubmint there one thin dime.

    I no longer visit friends in the Chicago area, as it reviles me to even be near the place. We lived in North Central Illinoisistan many years ago and I am EXTREMELY glad we moved. Never got a FOID card, as I just went across the border to buy ammo. Didn't buy any firearms there, so screw the FOID card.

    No love lost leaving that place. Avoid it if you can.

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    One good reason to avoid Illinois is "home rule communities" of which there are 147 and the entire county of Cook, where the infamous Chicago is located, are home rule. This allows them to make their own firearms ordinances. These may be more strict than the state law. Federal law may give you some protection when traveling through from another state.

    You might assume home rule communities are larger cities. All cities of 25,000 or more are home rule.But thevillageof Muddy Illinois, population 78, also is. Does it have a firearms ordinance, probably not, but it might. If it doesn't today it could pass one tomorrow.

    The ISP website does have a number of communities ordinances posted. They are supposed to do this. However 9 or 10 many in the Chicago area, haven't posted theirs. When traveling Illinois south of I80 is probably better, and south of I64 definately.

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    Too bad there is not a North Illinois (just Chicago and surrounding counties) and South Illinois, as that might serve to change things? At least that's what we used to wish when we lived there...

    All I wish for now is a 'safe (firearm friendly) corridor' through PRI.

    Unless more subjects of PRI wise up and push back in force, it'll never happen. But I will hold out hope.

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    Bobcat, I think you're right about there being a northern Illinois and a southern Illinois. I think of southern Illinois as being anything south of I64. I live down there and did some checking with police departments and city clerks of home rule communities down here. The state has 191 according to the list at the Illinois Municipal League website. You can see the list by going to iml.org/dbs/imllegal Thenclick on home rule municipalities. I checked the communities in my area and I'm fairly confident that south of I64 there aren't any with special ordinances regarding firearms transportation. The meto-east St. Louis area could be an exception.

    Interestingly one police chief said that they seldom arrest under the state firearms transportation law, maybe 1 or 2 times a year. Then he said "theres usually some other law broken like drunken driving or domestic violence." One officer stated the state law by saying the firearm must be unloaded and the ammunition not in the case with the firearm. That isn't true it must only not be in the firearm. For out-of-staters the fiream must be broken down or not immediately accesssible. So I can have an unloaded firearm in a case laying on the front seat or in a gun rack behind my head, if I'm carrying a FOID card, an out-of-stater can't.

    I checked out the following home rule municipalities south of I64 and they have no special transportation ordinances Benton, Carterville, Carbondale, Du Quoin, Herrin, Marion, Murphysboro, and West Frankfort.





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    Some home rule cities that I would be very careful traveling through are 7 in the Chicago area that have firearms ordinances but have not apparently given them to the Illinois State Patrol to post on the website. These communities used to have their names listed as having firearms ordinances, but weren't listed. I doubt very much that they have recinded them. The cities are Forest Park, Highland Park, Niles, River Grove, Elk Grove Village, Westmont, and Deerfield. If anyone lives near there and could give a call to the local police department or city clerk or city attorney and find out I'd like to know if any ordinance has requirements for transport that a different than state law. If they haven't posted, as required by law, what are they trying to hide from us?

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    ilbob wrote:
    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    I don't know about IL, but MD considers the magazine a part of the gun. Doesn't matter if the magazine is out of the gun or not, a loaded magazine IS A LOADED GUN the way MD sees things.
    I think CA has a similar law.
    Only if you are engaged in criminal action, CPC 12023, otherwise loaded mags separate from the firearmare only regulated in a specific part of the state capitol and at gun shows when in possession of a firearm for which that ammo was designed.



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    Your post brings up a good point to remember, every state has different firearms laws. I can have a firearm in a case, unloaded with a loaded magazine next to it traveling through Illinois and be legal, while in California, or Maryland or some other state I may be breaking the law.

    Something else that may be coming- A friend of mine told me he was traveling on I64 earlier this month and he saw state troopers setting up signs. One sign said K9 unit and the next one Drug and Firearms Checkpoint. He had never heard of a firearms checkpoint, nor had I. It wasn't set up so he didn't need to stop. One thing to remember at a checkpoint like this is that you do not have to allow your vehicle to be searched. You have the right under the 4th amendment to just say no to the request for a search. At least you can't be singled out for stopping at a checkpoint. A former police officer told me either every car must be stopped at a checkpoint or in a sequence, say every 10th, 11th or 15th, orwhatever. I'm sure they wouldn't stop every car on theinterstate. They can't just stop you because you look suspicious or have an out-of-state plate on your car.

    BTW, The Supreme Court has ruled that checkpoints can't be set up for the purpose of looking for illegal drugs. Checkpoints for DUI are another matter, and I don't imagine that there has been a ruling on firearms checkpoints. They say that they do arrest a lot of drivers for making an illegal u-turn before a checkpoint. If a trooper asked you if you had any loaded firearms in your vehicle and you said yes I would assume that this would be "probable cause" for a search, even if you refused a request. Not answering the question is not "probable cause" for a search, we do have the 5th amendment too. BTW, I'm not a lawyer but I'm quite sure I'm correct on these points.

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    PT-111 wrote:
    Driving through Illinois.....
    DON'T

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