Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: It's Infectious

  1. #1
    Regular Member eBratt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Fort Collins Area, CO
    Posts
    271

    Post imported post

    I open carry probably 70% of the time now. One recent foray was to Fat Cats here in Provo to eat at the attached Costa Vida. I have open carried several times before to pick up food to take home, but have never stayed.

    This time, my wife, daughter, and I all decided to stick around to eat. We got our food and sat down without a single second look. With my wife being 8 months pregnant and my daughter only being two, I was the designated soda-refiller and as such made several trips from our table to the soda machine.

    There were two college age males sitting at the table next to us that I walked by at least three times. Right after I walked by and was up at the soda fountain, my wife overheard one of the guys say to the other, "Whoa, I didn't think that was legal [referring to my open carrying my SW 642]." The other one replies, "No, it's completely legit if you have your concealed permit." "Really? I've got to get mine."

    Couldn't have asked for a better outcome to that.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good" - George Washington
    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Gandhi

    As always, insert standard IANAL disclaimer here.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    32

    Post imported post

    Another case of people not knowing the law. Good job. SFC Stu

  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    Right - utah requires a CHP to carry loaded openly; Open Israeli carry without permit is OK too.

    Any chance we can get Utah to relax on guns in cars like TX and 15 other states? I.e., allow at least some kind of concealed carry without a permit inside cars?

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Richfield, ,
    Posts
    22

    Post imported post

    Mike wrote:
    Any chance we can get Utah to relax on guns in cars like TX and 15 other states? I.e., allow at least some kind of concealed carry without a permit inside cars?
    Car carry has been tried recently, but shot down (pun intended). The failure of this bill (I think-but don't quote me) was due partly to the Sheriffs Association and the Police Chiefs coming out against it.

    It is too bad that it died without getting a full vote.

  5. #5
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    Gee - I thought that at least you all could get concealed Israeili carry in a car without a permit - keep trying!

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Richfield, ,
    Posts
    22

    Post imported post

    In Utah, without a CWP, the gun is supposed to locked and stowed out of reach (not in glovebox or console) for transport. I drive a Jeep and that law was a big reason I got my CWP so I can take my gun to the range or to the trail when hiking without issues.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Richmond, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    534

    Post imported post

    Forgive the ignorance of this Limey Gentile, but what, pray, constitutes Israeli carry?Is it something like sideways sights for ghetto Glocks, or hillbilly speedloaders(elastic bands)?

    TrueBrit.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Richfield, ,
    Posts
    22

    Post imported post

    TrueBrit:

    I believe that Israeli carry is a full mag, but no round in the chamber. The Israeli Army is required to carry this way. In Utah, an unloaded gun is considered at least two actions from firing. So a person can carry a semi-auto "Israeli-style" because it takes two actions (racking the slide and pulling the trigger) to fire the gun.

    HTH

    Overtaxed1

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Richmond, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    534

    Post imported post

    Thank you for the info, Sir.

    TrueBrit.

  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    right - and I believe the condition 2 carry is legal only for open carry - so you need to a permit in Utah to open carry with a loaded (round chambered) gun and a permit to conceal any gun - that's my understanding.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Mechanicsville, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    548

    Post imported post

    Mike wrote:
    right - and I believe the condition 2 carry is legal only for open carry - so you need to a permit in Utah to open carry with a loaded (round chambered) gun and a permit to conceal any gun - that's my understanding.
    Damn, nothing like making it confusing. I am liking Virginia more and more, good thing since I am retiring here. Now if we could just get rid of that dumb restaurant law.

  12. #12
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,795

    Post imported post

    We did try permitless car carry the last legislative session; it was SB 24 sponsored by Senator Mark Madsen. Links to the various versions of the bill can be viewed here http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2006/SB0001ht.htm.The second and third substitutes were attempts to get SOMETHING past a hostile committee.

    The bill was heavily opposed by a couple of associations of big business. Law enforcement was basically split on the bill and did not actively oppose it much.

    Sadly, the bill got VERY little support from rank and file gun owners in Utah. For anyone who has a permit, such changes have no personal impact so too many of our otherwise most active gun owners simply don't care, at best. At worst, some actually oppose such changes believing, it seems, that nobody should be carrying a gun without some formal training and a State license.

    Those interested in advancing the RIGHT to own and carry guns in Utah (openly or concealed) should go to http://www.GOUtahOrg.org and sign up for our free alerts.

    Charles Hardy

    Public Policy Director

    GOUtah! (Gun Owners of Utah)
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    West Valley City, Utah, USA
    Posts
    44

    Post imported post

    This post got a little confusing as I read, so can I ask for clarity? Is it ok to open carry in a car, or do I have to lock it in the trunk everytime I get in?

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    Narcisist wrote:
    This post got a little confusing as I read, so can I ask for clarity? Is it ok to open carry in a car, or do I have to lock it in the trunk everytime I get in?
    Do you have a concealed handgun permit issued by, or accepted by Utah? If so, no reason to lock it up.

    Otherwsie, you can carry openly in vehicle if gun is"unloaded" per Utah law.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    West Valley City, Utah, USA
    Posts
    44

    Post imported post

    No, I don't have a ccp, but I'm working toward it. "Unloaded" is two actions away from firing right? So if there isn't a round chambered I can open carry in my truck with a ccp?

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    American Fork, Utah, USA
    Posts
    158

    Post imported post

    You can carry loaded in your truck with a ccp. Without one, you have to lock it up unloaded while in your vehicle. I know its a stupid law but its the law. It also has to be in accessible to anyone in the car. I hope this helps.



  17. #17
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    , Indiana, USA
    Posts
    1,606

    Post imported post

    Israeli carry?


  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    186

    Post imported post

    israeli carry = no round in the chamber for pistol, hammer down on an empty cylinder for revolver.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Morgan, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,580

    Post imported post

    mazellan819 wrote:
    You can carry loaded in your truck with a ccp. Without one, you have to lock it up unloaded while in your vehicle. I know its a stupid law but its the law. It also has to be in accessible to anyone in the car. I hope this helps.

    Utah Code Section 76-10-505




    76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street. (1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm: ...
    le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_0C034.htm - 2k - Cached - Similar pages


    76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
    (1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
    (a) in or on a vehicle;
    (b) on any public street; or
    (c) in a posted prohibited area.
    (2) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.


    Amended by Chapter 328, 1990 General Session
    Download Code Section Zipped WP 6/7/8 76_0C034.ZIP 1,712 Bytes





    Utah Code Section 76-10-501




    76-10-501. Definitions. As used in this part: (1) (a) "Antique firearm" means any firearm: (i) (A) with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, ...
    http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_0C030.htm - 11k - ]http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_0C030.htm+76-10-501&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us]Cached[/url] - ]http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_0C030.htm]Similar pages[/url]

    (18) "Securely encased" means not readily accessible for immediate use, such as held in a gun rack, or in a closed case or container, whether or not locked, or in a trunk or other storage area of a motor vehicle, not including a glove box or console box.

    IT STATES NO SUCH THING THAT IT HAS TO BE INACCESSABLE. YOU COULD COULD ( FOR NON-PERMIT HOLDER )

    TRAVEL DOWN THE ROAD AND HAVE THE FIREARM IN A TUPPERWARE NEXT TO YOU

    AND IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE LOCKED // COPS JUST STATES THIS TO PUT SOME SCARE TACTICS OUT THERE

    " I HAVE A BADGE" THING.



    GOOD LUCK




  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1

    Post imported post

    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    mazellan819 wrote:
    You can carry loaded in your truck with a ccp. Without one, you have to lock it up unloaded while in your vehicle. I know its a stupid law but its the law. It also has to be in accessible to anyone in the car. I hope this helps.

    ...

    IT STATES NO SUCH THING THAT IT HAS TO BE INACCESSABLE. YOU COULD COULD ( FOR NON-PERMIT HOLDER )

    TRAVEL DOWN THE ROAD AND HAVE THE FIREARM IN A TUPPERWARE NEXT TO YOU

    AND IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE LOCKED // COPS JUST STATES THIS TO PUT SOME SCARE TACTICS OUT THERE

    " I HAVE A BADGE" THING.



    GOOD LUCK


    Don't forget the U.S. code, as well.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...6---A000-.html

    So it looks like "the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    , Utah, USA
    Posts
    6

    Post imported post

    If "unloaded" is two actions from being fired, is having the safety on just as good (from a legal standpoint) as no round in the chamber? In other words, action #1 = safety off, action #2 = pull trigger?

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Morgan, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,580

    Post imported post

    blackpuma wrote:
    If "unloaded" is two actions from being fired, is having the safety on just as good (from a legal standpoint) as no round in the chamber? In other words, action #1 = safety off, action #2 = pull trigger?
    NO IT'S NOT...

    per Utah Code,






    Utah Code Section 76-10-502




    76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded. (1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part ...
    le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_0C031.htm - 3k - Cached - Similar pages


    76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded.
    (1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
    (2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
    (3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.


    Amended by Chapter 328, 1990 General Session
    Download Code Section Zipped WP 6/7/8 76_0C031.ZIP 1,898 Bytes


    IT HAS TOO HAVE AN EMPTY CHAMBER.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    , Utah, USA
    Posts
    22

    Post imported post

    cygnl7 wrote:
    Don't forget the U.S. code, as well.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000926---A000-.html


    So it looks like "the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."

    That only applies to interstate travel, not to travel strictly within the state.

    Even for interstate travel, that U.S. code does not require that a gun be unloaded and in a locked container. What it does is protect a citizen who is traveling from one locale in which he can legally possess a gun to another locale in which he can legally possess a gun, even when he travels through states that prohibit him from possessing a gun, provided he has it unloaded and in a locked container.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •